During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The Moron
I don't mean to be rude, but ~Shadao, were you given permission to mess with Killmonger's entry?
Oh cool. Eiza González will finally get that long-awaited keeper.
I hate spoilers
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Permission is something that I've been thinking about. While I don't dislike the exact changes he made (as I see them as improvements), I've been resisting the urge to edit other entries. Partly because I fear getting caught, and partly because I wouldn't like it if my write-ups were edited in a similar way.
Yes. That's exactly why you don't do that without first running it by the thread. However I do find if you get to trigger happy with that people will get annoyed with you if you're constantly bringing up changes when the first writeup was perfectly good. So if you're going to do that, try to do it in moderation.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I don’t mind people adding potholes to my under-potholed entries (which I do for other entries as well) or 43 editing my entries during the swap process if it’s warranted. Anything beyond that, I would get annoyed with.
Well 43 has carte blanche to do it, because he is the threads curator. Anyone else should make a post on the thread.
Edit: I should note that minor corrections such as spelling or grammar are fine.
Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:39:23 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Then, shit, sorry, guys. I made a few unapproved edits to Wilfre’s entry back in June because I didn’t know the rules.
Old: Wilfre, a Raposa corrupted by his attempt to use the Book of Life and upstage the Creator, starts out as a vicious Smug Snake in the first game before graduating in The Next Chapter.
New: Wilfre, a Raposa corrupted by his attempt to use the Book of Life and upstage the Creator, becomes more cunning in this sequel.
I also specified The Next Chapter as the work, since it only applied there.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Oct 23rd 2021 at 6:33:53 AM
Let's break up this slow Saturday with a candidate to discuss. Today it's time to do Runescape candidate number 9, and these next 4 candidates are effectively the main antagonists of the respective quest lines. First, here's a little backstory to establish the candidate.
The topic of todays effort post concerns the Dragonkin, or Kindra as they call themselves, a race of draconic humanoids that originated from the prior universe before the Elder Gods awoke and destroyed it as a part of their rebirth cycle. The few surviving dragonkin fled to the otherworldy plane called the Abyss to wait out the cycle and eventually left to find a new world to colonize and repopulate. They soon came upon the perfect world Gielinor and became the first sapient life to dwell there. Building cities and recreating their lost culture, various factions among the dragonkin discussed what to do about the Elder Gods. The Nodon and the Aughra wanted to merely rebuild their culture, the Syrtes wanted to prove themselves as servants, while the Dactyl wanted to avenge themselves and destroy the Elders. One young Dactyl created a scheme to harm and destroy them, yet only succeeded in awakening them.
Jas saw mortal life for the first time and found it without purpose, and so bound the entire race to slavery to guard over the Elder Artifacts, her Stone of Jas in particular. This curse caused them immense pain and the factions reacted differently. The Nodon chose to enter a forced stasis until the end of time, the Aughra committed mass suicide to escape the pain, the Syrtes embraced the curse and began murdering any who used the Elder Artifacts, and the Dactyl turned to their science to find a cure. One Dactyl in particular had ever greater ambitions. The same dragonkin that originally sought to destroy the Elders dedicated his entire existence to ending the curse by killing the Elders once and for all, no matter who or what he has to sacrifice.
Who is Kerapac?
Cold, calculating, intelligent, and completely without morals, Kerapac was considered by his peers to be the most brilliant researcher in the history of their race. Representing the Dactyl on the dragonkin's ruling council, he lived with the others of his kind in Gielinor's first city, Orthen on the island of Anachronia. In those ancient days, Kerapac was already researching ways to combat the Elder Gods for destroying his race's previous home world. He found an interesting lead in the form of Raksha, an hyper intelligent dinosaur living on Anachronia. This rex had unique traits including a potent shadowy venom and powers over ice and lighting, and so Kerapac had this dinosaur imprisoned and removed it's special biological traits and implanted them into females rexes along with wings and the fire breath of salamanders to study the offspring, creating the precursors to dragons. This research eventually led to Kerapac discovering a pattern to Raksha, a circle flanked by two triangles. Believing Raksha was once an ordinary dinosaur later mutated, Kerapac set out to discover the source of the mutation and found a truly amazing discovery.
Kerapac discovered the mysterious shadow anima that had mutated Raksha and further experiments proved it to be an incredibly toxic substance to the Elder Gods. With unbound ambition, he created a powerful device that could produce shadow anima in great quantities by drawing in and converting normal anima. Kerapac revealed this device to the council, but they saw it as too dangerous to use as it could awaken the Elders. Not heeding their advice, Kerapac activated the device and its gathering of anima alerted Jas to the existence of mortal life. As described above, she curses the dragonkin to suffer incredible pain whenever someone else uses an Elder Artifact and forces them to destroy the "False Users" to ease their suffering. Jas soon returned to sleep and left the dragonkin to their own devices, a choice she would ultimately regret. Over the following millennia, mortals and gods alike arrived to Gielinor and began using the Artifacts and unwittingly caused great pain to the dragonkin. While most of his kind from driven into homicidal monsters, Kerapac had the will to resist the curse and used the pain for motivation in his efforts to find a cure.
At first, he began capturing and vivisecting his own kind to find a biological connection to the curse, but soon found it would be impossible to forcibly remove it. This, combined with the dragonkin's newfound infertility, led Kerapac to seek out a way to pass on the best traits of his people to spiritually succeed the Kindra. He took a series of eggs from massive reptilian creatures and used his magic to imbue them with his lifeblood, and the only one to survive would become the first dragon, the Queen Black Dragon. She was massive, intelligent, and magically gifted, and upon other Dactly hearing this, began their own experiments. Phalaks, a former student of Kerapac, created the three headed King Black Dragon who was much smaller and weaker. Kerapac nonetheless bred them and their children formed all the various modern chromatic dragons seen in the game today. These children were bestial, however, and not fit to continue the Kindra's lineage in Kerapac's eyes, and so he began pouring liquid metal into her eggs and the few that survived became the first metal dragons. These were still not truly sapient, however, and Kerapac considered the experiment a failure and moved on with a small group of Dactyl helpers.
Kerapac's new attempt to circumvent the curse was called Project Phoenix, a cloning project that he believed would be the answer to both the curse and their infertility. Using the extreme techniques he used to create dragons, most of the clones died young with the exception one named Vicendithas, whom Kerapac grew to disdain for his much greater morality. With that project also going nowhere, Kerapac was forced to turn his attention to the Kindra Kranon, who had become a worshipper of Xau-Tak. Not wanting to trade Jas's curse for enthrallment to Xau-Tak, he infused two dragon with Xau-Tak's black stone creating two Black Stone Dragons. While researching the effects of the corruption, Kerapac learned Kranon had apparently died in the meantime and abandoned the project and sealed away the experiments. Kerapac spent the following ages continuing experiment after experiment never giving up on his search for a cure. His tale finally takes a turn in the modern age after Guthix dies and the gods can return. When the Mahjarrat Sliske throws his ascension party, he reveals that he captured the Syrte dragonkin Strisath and unleashes him for fun when the event ends. After driving off the attendees, Kerapac is able to subdue and capture his fellow and bring him back to his laboratory.
A while later he sees the reptilian humanoid, or Ilujanka, Hannibus and the player flying over his lab on a dragon and knocks them out of the sky with a fireball. Waking the player, he tells them he will heal the injured Hannibus if the player helps him with research. Kerapac remarks that Strisath was once one of the Kindra's greater philosophers but now just an enraged beast, and seeks to use the player's resistance to god magic to find a weakness in the curse. He theorized that the player's resistance could undue the link between the Stone of Jas and the dragonkin, and so sent the player "into" the curse to fight an Echo of Jas. This partially works and Strisath is temporarily calmed and Kerapac heals Hannibus as thanks. Upon learning the Ilujanka can no longer reproduce, a sympathetic Kerapac offers to study him if he stays in his lab to find a cure for their peoples, but Hannibus can be convinced by the player to stay or return to his home world to be with his people.
Later on, Kerapac hit another breakthrough when he learned of the Elder Mirror, used to transfer energy and create copies by the Elder Gods. When he learned the Syrte leader Sakirth was going to use the Mirror to kill the human god V for using the Stone to ascend, Kerapac used Strisath to arrange a meeting between the Syrtes and a Dactyl troublemaker named Tarshak. Kerapac knew the plan was to transfer V's divine energy into a subject, so he arranged for Tarshak to be captured and used and got rid of a nuisance in the process. The plan worked and V was slain by Syrtes, the energy transferal turned Tarshak into an abomination eventually slain by the player, and Kerapac arrived in the aftermath to take samples. In this way, the pieces all finally fell into place for Kerapac and he took the Elder Mirror from the Syrtes and represented the dragonkin in Sliske's final game for the Stone of Jas. During the final series of battles, Kerapac derails the entire plot line by channeling power from the Heart of Gielinor where the Elder Eggs are through the Mirror and using the energy to shatter the Stone of Jas. This at long last frees the Kindra from the curse and gives them their freedom back and Kerapac is hailed as a hero among his people.
Much later Kranon resurfaced and the player had to deal with that situation. In the process, they seek out Kerapac for aid and find Hannibus in his old lab. Regardless of prior decisions, Kerapac made good on his promise and developed a serum that cured the Ilujanka's infertility. They eventually track Kerapac down giving a speech to the other dragonkin and remarking that while they were free, their slavers had not yet been brought to justice. Thus, during Seren's meeting with all of Gielinor's world leaders, Kerapac arrives to state simply appeasing the Elder Gods would never work. He instead proposes an alternate plan to put them to sleep forever. He gets the player to assist him in this plan by attempting to bind himself to the Elder Needle, capable of controlling time. He also has the player track down the human mage Charos to build him a device to keep his memories intact after using the Needle. This leads the player to helping Kerapac binds his memories to the Needle but learns a terrible truth in the process. Kerapac's plan isn't simply drain enough anima to keep the Elder Gods from awakening, he intends to shape the anima into shadow anima to poison the Elders to death. This would end all life on Gielinor in the process but save every other world in the universe from the Great Revision that claimed his own home.
After backstabbing the player and his allies, they formulate a plan to stop Kerapac. In the meantime, Kerapac travels back to ancient Orthen and uses the Needle to pull back to those ancient days to just before his shadow anima device was destroyed by Jas. In his new lab deep within the volcano on Anachronia, Kerapac recreated his device by regretfully using all the Nodon still in stasis as a new source of anima, not wanting to alert the Elders again this time by drawing on Gielinor. One of the surviving Black Stone Dragons would be fed the anima which was then turned into shadow anima, and the shadow anima would then be unleashed back into the world killing it and the Elders. When the player and their allies confront him, his mastery over the Needle allows him to undo any damage they do to him and he easily defeats them. Despite the player's reasoning to stop, Kerapac refuses to back down and tells his foes to spend their last days with their loved ones rather that continuing to oppose him. This ultimately forces the player to make a pact with Jas for help, who gives the player an artifact to cut off Kerapac from the Needle. After defeating the Black Stone Dragon in a boss fight, the player cuts Kerapac off which allows Jas to swoop in and immediately enslave him again. At this point, Kerapac is begging for death rather than being enslaved again after tasting freedom for such a short time.
Besides just enslaving Kerapac, Jas chooses to enthrall all the Nodon in stasis as her servants as well. For a little while, things seem stable again as the Elders seem appeased with mortal life, yet Zaros has to screw everything up as I explained in a previous post. Zaros's entrance into the shadow realm Erebus causes the Elder Eggs to begin hatching, which would again end all life on Gielinor as the new born reincarnated Elders would consume all the anima on the planet. Azzanadra begins his scheme to stop the hatching, which predictably turns the Elders against mortal life and they send their own forces to reclaim their future reincarnations. Kerapac appears again, forced to do Jas's bidding while still being in control enough to be defiant of her. He leads the Nodon to reclaim the Eggs, but in still in control enough to send a warning to his former allies. He remarks to the player that he wishes he could have sided with them, but remarks it's ironic they are doing what he previously tried to do. Thus Kerapac becomes the first boss of the new Elder God War dungeon wing, the Nodon front, and faces off with the player while imbued with the power of several Elder Artifacts. After a long and hard fought battle, Kerapac dies, but Jas refuses to let him go and restores his body and denies him even freedom in death.
Is he magnificent?
Kerapac was called the most brilliant of his kind for a reason. He is a cold and calculated scientific mind that went through countless millennia of research non stop to find a cure to the curse and to avenge his people from their suffering by the Elders. All of his experiments get some kind of amazing result even if he later calls them failures for not getting his exact desired result and is one hell of a determinator for the lengths he will go to. Despite having the airs of a Mad Scientist and having a distinct lack of moral boundaries, Kerapac is in no way a sadist and has a well intentioned purpose behind every single one of his experiments. When under the curse, he is incredibly cold and callous due to the constant suffering he's filling, but the interactions we get when he is free do show off a more warm hearted side. Free from the pain, he shows far more mercy and empathy towards others even if his goals would have killed him and everyone on Gielinor.
Is he a bastard?
While not a truly malicious being at his core, Kerapac is still someone I would evil. While driven by unimaginable pain at his worst, depictions of his life before being cursed still shows someone willing to commit immoral acts if it promises to bring some kind of worthwhile benefit. So overall, a Well-Intentioned Extremist driven to commit acts of evil to save himself and his people, and later the rest of the universe.
Any mitigating factors?
It is worth noting that being enslaved is a rather ignoble fate for a Magnificent Bastard, but I feel any negatives to that are downplayed by his constant fighting back against his fate and his slaver being an all powerful creator god.
Final Verdict?
Honestly, a pretty easy ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
here I feel.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 23rd 2021 at 4:03:27 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The wifi here sucks
22, if one of your worries is "getting caught" then you're doing something wrong. We don't hide things on this thread and all changes need to be run by the thread with the exception of grammar and spelling errors.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Phoebe Spengler
Yes to Kerapac.
I try to just stick to grammar unless something's blatantly unclear or awkwardly phrased... beyond that I don't like dicking around with people's stuff. They're the ones who put the work in after all and I've made my opinion there clear.
For Wilfre... it's been so long I'm kinda fine with it and Scraggle hasn't complained but don't do that again Guma. Closed door edits are never good.
Yes to Kerapac though!
to Kerapac
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Kerapac. Anyways, since I guess a slow day is bad, here's another EP.
"Something to Fight For" is a short story fanfic written by MiraiYuji. It's a fanfic based off The Walking Dead, particularly during the events of Season 4 right around the time Clem meets up with the teens at Ericson. Most of the events of the story play out the same way they do in the game, with a few changes here and there (namely the absence of AJ). And just like the game, the group has to deal with a group of raiders led by Lilly.
But I'm not discussing Lilly this time around...
Who Is She?
Clementine is the main protagonist of the story, similar to the games.
What Has She Done?
Okay so this story takes place during Season 4 in an Alternate Timeline. And in this timeline, Clem kills Kenny and Jane during the scuffle during the end of Season 2, she shot Mike after he and Arvo tried to steal from her, she found Molly from Season 1...somewhere...and now they're dating, and apparently Season 3 did not happen. Which I'm fine with. But most importantly, AJ is dead. Prior to the short story, Clem and AJ tried to walk through a herd of walkers (presumably the ending of Season 2 if Clem is alone). But unfortunately, AJ started crying, and the noise attracted the walkers and swarmed them. Seeing no other option, Clem left AJ to die while she barely escaped.
Because of this, amongst many other loses, Clem is now more of a hardened person who doesn't like to let people close to her (besides Molly at least). While hunting rabbits, the two of them encounter some of Lilly's goons tormenting a teen from the Ericson school. Clem and Molly find out they've been getting harassed by Lilly's group, and after convincing from Molly, the two of them agree to help them. They travel to the school and start to mingle with the gang, but at some point, Clem overhears Brody and Marlon's deception of how they were secretly giving up members of Ericson to the raiders to keep their compound safe. Marlon tries to kill Clem, but she manages to talk him down by exposing her own pragmatic decision to leave AJ to die...only to promptly knock Marlon in his face and hold a gun at him and Brody. Marlon gives up the location the raiders were setting a trap at, but despite this, Clem nearly executes Marlon anyway until Molly convinces her not to. Not long after, she takes over as being leader of Ericson.
After some plotting and scheming, the group manages to capture Minerva after being attacked by the raiders, where they interrogate her to find out where Lilly is hiding. When Clem threatens to kill Tenn, Minerva caves and exposes Lilly's location. Clem lets Tenn forgive Minerva for betraying Ericson (as well as killing Louis offscreen), before Clem gets revenge on Louis' death by stabbing Minerva in the head. Sometime later, the kids plant a bomb on the raiders' hideout, a giant boat (similar to the game). Violet is killed by Lilly during the confusion just as she's about to escape with the other kids, and Clem gives herself up to Lilly's goons when they corner her. Clem gloats to Lilly how she killed one of her men, Abel, and shows her his severed head, now zombified. Lilly and the raiders put Clem in a cell, but don't kill her. Lilly starts a speech about how Clem would be a wonderful recruit, but by that point, it's too late. The raiders don't know about the bomb, and Clem keeps Lilly distracted. Eventually, the fire in the boiler ignites the bomb, setting it off and destroying the raiders' base, along with Lilly and Clementine as well.
Is She Charming? Charismatic? Magnificent?
Well. It's Clementine.
Most of what she does have purpose behind it. She stabs Molly in the thigh once they reach Ericson, but only as a case of Wounded Gazelle Gambit to convince the Ericson teens to let them both in no questions asked. Marlon holds a gun to Clem, but instead of losing her cool, she sympathizes with him to get him to break, and immediately disarms him. She lets herself get captured by Lilly towards the end, but solely so she's distract them and give the rest of the Ericson kids time to escape—which they all do. Even threatening to kill Tenn was done so she could get Minerva to give up Lilly's location. But it was nothing more than a bluff—one that ended up working.
Is She a Bitch? Too Much of a Bitch?
Yes, but no. She does some horrible things, but within reason. Yes, she shot Kenny and Jane. But this is canon to what happened in Season 2, meaning she shot them while they were both trying to kill each other and realized they were a liability (which they are; Kenny was losing his mind, and Jane was a pragmatic dumbass who endangered an infant). Yes, she left AJ to die, but she didn't want to. She had to. He wouldn't stop crying and they were traveling through a herd of walkers. Clem had to choose between both of them dying, or just AJ—similar to Clem choosing to leave Sarah to die instead of endangering herself or saving her (not that it matters because she dies anyway because Telltale doesn't follow through on making your choices matter but I digress 
). During the early points of the story, Clem has that whole "only the strong survive blah blah blah blah Walking Dead Anti-Hero crap blah blah blah." But then later on she becomes a nicer person and learns to value her close friends and acquaintances. Really the worst kinda smug thing she does is decapitating Abel and bragging to Lilly she's got his severed head in her backpack.
During the present she's a hardass to the kids at Ericson but at no point does she conspire or strive to kill them. Even Marlon (who's surprisingly spared here) is shown mercy from Clem, and her stunt to cut Tenn's throat was just a bluff. She even sacrifices herself to keep the kids at Ericson safe.
What's the Competition Like?
Non-existent. Every other potential villain in the short story is a Smug Snake or has little personality. Lilly is Lilly, so...
Final Verdict?
Sure I suppose.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
@43 I won’t. You have my word.
Not sure on Clem. Waiting for more opinions.
Kerapac and Clem. For Clem there's a ruthlessness there that I like. Yes her most villainous actions are in the past, but when you kill someone when they're at your mercy that's always gonna be a line crossed for me. Unless they're a Complete Monster or in the ballpark, I always see that as Bastard points.
I always appreciate when you add potholes for my EPs 43. I'm not always good at coming up with those.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Phoebe Spengler
Eh, yes to Clem.
The Salesman’s Stolen Mask
to Kerapac
@Tyk: Mirai told me you were eping Clem. Anyways I’m fine giving my to her
Edited by G-Editor on Oct 23rd 2021 at 2:41:48 AM
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Hell yes to Kerapac. I agree, his ultimate defeat being essentially being down to brute force by an entity millions of times more powerful than he is shouldn't be disqualifying! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Yes to Clem.
Normally, it's not a great sign when an MB candidate is reduced to begging for death, but it's still understandable given the circumstances stances. Imagine fighting to maintain your sanity from suffering constant agony for tens of thousands of years and then losing your hard fought freedom from it after only a few years. As awful as some of Kerapac's methods were, I still consider him one of the most tragic characters in Runescape.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Oct 23rd 2021 at 5:58:45 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The Moron
Sure to Kerapac and Clementine
And apologies for the double post, but....
Lighty and I should actually have a couple From Dusk Till Dawn things... gonna be lazy and start with the dude with the least episodes but the Gecko brothers and Kisa will all be worth a talk too.