During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The spy goes first. She's from the first game, Keyes is from the second. Also, if we're doing it in order of release, than I believe Gant is supposed to be at the very top of the tree.
Edited by DocSharp on Nov 11th 2018 at 12:51:30 PM
Lord of Hell
I assumed we were doing it in alphabetical order of the game's name if Gant was below Keyes.
But yeah, the spy will go above Keyes.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
- Manhole by Tetsuya Tsutsui: Hiroshi Kurokawa was a doctor whose life was ruined by his granddaughter's traumatizing rape. To revenge himself upon the rapist, Kurokawa visited a African tribe to discover the secret behind the peaceful One-Eyed people. Discovering the Filarias, worms that infected human brains and forced them to control their emotions or lose an eye or die in agony. Testing them on the rapist that ruined his life and upon a violent unemployed man that beat his elderly parents, Hiroshi planned use the filaria by inserting samples of it inside domestic animals and waiting until summer to let the mosquitoes share it with the rest of Japan with the intention of creating a world without violence. Stopped thanks to lucky accidents and the recklessness of The Heroine Nao Inoue, Kurosawa managed to control even his own death. Driven only for his goal, Hiroshi was infected with the same worm that he wanted to spread and was a true believer of his own cause.
- Videogame/Pokemon Kanto Origins: In this fanmade game that serves as an homage to the first generation, Giovanni is the Boss of the Team Rocket and leader of the Viridian City Gym. Part of the Ancient Conspiracy of the Elite Four to control the region, Giovanni wishes to restore Kanto's former glory by any means. Creating Mewtwo as the first step of a series of experiments to create stronger Pokemon, Giovanni manipulates the Player Character to be his beta-tester while slowly becoming fond of him. Intending to overthrow the Elite Four, Giovanni invades the Indigo Plateau with his most loyal followers, dedicated to slowing the player as much as possible. A Graceful Loser as in the original games, Giovanni is partially aware of the fictional nature of the Protagonist and congratulates him for his victory against him, allowing the player character to defy the ultimate being, the Kanto Spirit.
- Devil Y Devil by Yuuki Miyoshi: Shiva Garland is one of the strongest demons in hell. Working for what he believed was Satan, Shiva is sent to kill his best friend Sword. Sending demons of different moralities to secretly test him, Shiva intent being defeated for Sword to give him a chance to defeat Satan. Killing one demon that was going to kill Sword, Shiva puts a lethal curse in his human host with the intention of forcing him to become stronger and kill him. Defeated for Sword, Shiva reveals working with a rebellion against the Demon King and is put into a coman, awakening to stop the omnicidal Shadow of Satan, sacrifing his life to save the entire existence. A honorable Blood Knight willing to risk the life of humans to ensure a victory for his best friend, Shiva Garland was as powerful as intelligent.
Sorry for being so late, I was busy with many things. I would put them in the drafts, right?.
Thorn is going to take a bit more.
Watch me destroying my country
Middle one is fine... going to need you to fix the grammar on the other two before they can be posted though.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Ok. Only post that one then.
Watch me destroying my country
Yeah for the tree if we're going in chronological order it would be:
Gant
Yew/The Spy
Keyes
Vortex
And if you have a hard time finding Vortex's game here it is:
Dai Gyakuten Saiban: Naruhodou Ryuunosuke no Bouken
I think I might want to check Egg Benedict/Rubert Crogley again in the off chance he qualifies then we might have enough for a page.
Edited by Klavice on Nov 13th 2018 at 5:22:03 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
I'll do the AA stuff sometime tomorrow.
Someone added Madam Satan in YMMV.Chilling Adventures Of Sabrina. Has she been discussed?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No she has not. Based off what I have heard she may count but her arc isn't over.
Mmm... personally I'd downvote if she did get discussed, I find her moments of panic and pettiness make her a bit too pathetic for this, despite being a competent Chessmaster.
Goku Black
So here's an interesting question. How do we handle say defence attornies. For example, in the The Good Wife currently lists Cary Agos and Alcica. Thing is well they do defend clients who actually are guilty and are fine with it and are pretty decent chessmaster's, they also go out of their way not to break the law or do anything unethical.
I'll give you guys after I get the answr. Who I belive qualifies and who doesnt after that.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 15th 2018 at 7:29:00 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
How do they successfully defend clients they know are guilty without breaking the law or doing anything unethical?
Was there anyone else who wanted to tackle Big Hero 6: The Series? Pending finding the time to review properly, there are also a couple of unapproved Jack Ryan (novels) examples who I think will merit discussion.
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
That's what lawyers do. Everyone has the right to a vigorous defense and so forth.
By law and legal ethics, you have to defend your client, even (or especially) if you know they're guilty.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 15th 2018 at 10:16:06 AM
What Lighty said.
OK, some updates I keep forgetting to post that might not be necessary but might be helpful for someone:
I'm a Marvel and I'm a DC has been getting new content again. We recently approved Lex Luthor. So this might be pertinent to us. I know right now that Lex Luthor himself has a plan - and the plan is to capitalise on the heroes not wanting to compare notes on film adaptations anymore. Also Rorschach and Deadpool getting up to Time Travel hijinks. So pertinent information may come out as time goes on.
Also of note, and I'm sure many here already know: Much of Final Fantasy XV's planned future DLC has been cancelled. 4 pieces were intended for 2019 release and now only Episode Ardyn is coming out.
That being said, the team has said they'd like to tell the story they wanted in some way. In what way? I dunno. Novelisation, Manga, Audio Drama etc. There's so many avenues. I say we keep an ear to the ground - and I imagine Lighty would want first dibs on any such content since he's been our XV guy for a long while now.
That's all for now. Hope everyone's well.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Ok. I discussed this guy as a CM and, well, I think that he may be a crossover case. But there certain factors that make me hesitate about that that I would discuss. But, after weeks of thinking about it, is time to ask about it. Most of this EP is straight up copypasted for my CM EP. Except the parts that do matter.
Setting?
Nabari no Ou is a shonen manga, about how Miharu Rokujo is a modern-day Japanese student apathetic to the world around him. One day, Miharu is protected from a ninja by Koichi Aizawa and Tobari Kumohira, who are ninja affiliated with the Banten Village. He learns that his body carries the Shinrabanshou, a scroll that holds the most powerful secret art in the ninja world of Nabari.
Who is him? What he had done?
Fuuma Kotarou presents himself as a morally ambiguous ally of our heroes, The Leader and master of the Fuuma Village and a friendly Chivalrous Pervert totally willing to Shoot the Dog if he gets to protect the Dangerous Forbidden Technique Shinrabanshou, all while joking about how he really wants it to become a God For Science! and having a harem. Well...not really joking.
Doing the first arcs, When he wanted spy on another Ninja. He did set up a situation where said ninja would become fond of the spy and viceversa.
While he claims that it was a Shoot the Dog moment to protect Miharu and the Shinrabanshou, Fuuma clearly enjoyed the satisfaction of seeing the personal drama of his spy and the spied. Yet, he convinced the heroes that it was necessary. Fuuma is very good at convincing others.
Of course, it turns out that he is the real Big Bad and that he had being working with the Big Bad Wannabe, Tojuro Hattori, leader of the Kairoushuu.
Fuuma is actually a 114 years old man, who had been planning getting the Shinrabanshou for decades. Ten years before the beginning of the story, there was an event that ended up with all Ninjas getting their memories deleted from that day except one. Obviously, Fuuma was behind that.
Using his Shapeshifting skills, he does become Inasa, a Evil Cripple and the founder of Kasa, an organization that does train teenagers into assasins. While all ninjas are assasins, Kasa does have the dubious honor of training their students to be assasins and nothing more, complete with teaching its members to kill themselves to ensure success and as a self-punishment if they fail them.
The previous owner of the Shinrabanshou was Asahi Rokujou, Miharu's mother. She did try to destroy the Shinrabanshou alongside with her husband, a very young Tobari and his grandpa, all while having their four-years old son near to them (to avoid him from becoming a target, it was a "great" idea...).
When they were doing the ritual to destroy it, hiding themselves from other ninjas. A mysterious cloaked figure appear alongside with a small bunch of fighters, Asahi's husband dies fighting killed for the invaders while they try to capture/kill Kid!Tobari and a 4-years old Miharu.
When Tobari ran away carrying Miharu towards Asahi and his grandpa, they are intercepted for the cloaked figure, who -after killing the old man and realizing that the 4-years old in front of him is the son of the owner of the Shinrabanshou- kills him…by blowing up his face in front of her.
What happen after that is expected, Asahi enters into despair and interrupts the erasure ritual to use the Shinrabanshou and revive her son, giving out her own life and accidentally sealing the Shinrabanshou into him, she deletes the memories of everyone trying to protect her son (except Tobari, who does his best to protect him).
Fuuma had done a Alliance with Hattori, where both would be using their sides to fight each other while advancing their agendas, a alliance that Fuuma didn't respect. Iffy translations made it hard say if it was a Memory Gambit, he convincing her or a mix of both, but Hattori' secretary betrays and kill him to aid Fuuma' plan.
Fuuma himself tries to extract the Shirabanshou from Miharu with the intention of becoming God, he sends members of Kasa to kill all the protagonists and fatally injure Tobari.
He admits his role with a calm sadism (when I wrote "Gloat", I mean this) and proceeds to extract the Shinrabanshou from Miharu.
Fuuma is close to do it until Tobari stabs him in the neck, causing his body to be unable to store the Shinrabanshou and dying from it.
After his death, his most trusted student just calls him a stupid (she was angry at his manipulation) while his skulls break at the minimum contact. A pretty undignified death, fitting for a asshole for him. Dunno if the corpse treatment affects this trope, but I like mentioning it.
Bastard?
As I said in the CM thread. Fuuma is a Sociopath who want become God and manipulates everyone to do it, turns children and teenagers into expendable assassins and murder kids in front of their mother, knowing that it can risk the entire world.
Said this...Fuuma is charismatic in his facade. He was ruthless, but pretty humane. He plays dating sims (choosing the bad routes at purpose...) and flirts with girls a lot. His real self is soft spoken sadist with ocassional evil gloating, but even then, he's still a competent manipulate bastard who is extremely close to his goal of becoming a godlike being and gaining massive wisdom (but no harem, Fuuma don't care for those earthy pleasures)
Fumma' most disgusting crimes are him training Child Soldiers and blowing up the face of a 4 years old Miharu. Said this, this is a case where Offscreen Villainy helps him, while we see the child soldiers being messed up, they really don't see like totally broken as other examples of the trope.
His killing of Miharu is actually pretty well planned, doing it to actively break his mother. Miharu' looked like her, at blowing up his face, he would cause a stronger reaction. Fuuma is a Complete Monster, get it?
Also. Miharu returned to life right after it, so that kinda mitigates it IMO. And his torture of Tobari at the Great Finale, while sadistic, is not really gross. Is evil, but not enough to kill his charisma.
And...we have villains with far worse abuse of minors in this trope. Hi Made in Abyss guy.
He isn't trying to destroy the world of anything. He want knowledge of the world and wants become God to do it. The world can continue, thought he would risk it's safety if necessary for his goal.
Smart and Charismatic
Yeah. Fuuma manipulates almost everyone in series, tricking everyone while furthering his own quest for eternal wisdom. Losing only due to Tobari' determinated and desesperate surpresive attack.
When he's death. His followers reject him knowing that he betrayed them, but alive? They loved him.
Fuuma hide his evilness in a mask of a morally ambiguous joking antihero whose actions felt justified to others. He was a evil sociopath hidden behind a ruthless but seemingly Benevolent Boss.
Verdict?
His death might be undignified. But his actions in life made him stand out as a charismatic dick. Magnificent but Bastard.
I mean, he constantly jokes about being evil, saying the truth but tricking everyone else to believe that he's just a jerk. His jokes about "I'm gonna become god and have a harem" were the truth. Except the harem part.
I say ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 15th 2018 at 7:04:21 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Been a while since I read that but I remember a lot of emphasis being on how much of an asshole he is. Fuuma is a CM who goes to sickening lengths to be the "harem god" he wants to be and is quite a sadist, almost certainly voting no here.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
All good and I might reread the manga to get a better grip on my thoughts, as they are admittedly hazy.
Edited by 43110 on Nov 15th 2018 at 9:02:50 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
He's joking about the harem part. I can link the original EP right now.
Thought, I can understand disqualifying it for his acts of (mostly emotional) sadism. Anyway, I felt the need to EP him.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 15th 2018 at 8:57:54 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
- EastEnders: Dirty Den is probably the best in the history of the show. A sharp-dressed Deadpan Snarker and The Casanova who faked his own death to escape an organisation of vicious gangsters then came back years later. Outwitted Phil Mitchell and landed him in prison and then there was this scene: "Merry Christmas, Ange!" He could be thought of as the Lionel Luthor of Walford with his own Lex Luthor in the form of his son, Dennis Rickman. Manipulative and borderline sociopathic though he is, Den still has lines he won't cross is fiercely protective of his family and occasionally even looks out for members of the community.
- In the end however, Den's outgambited by his Magnificent Bitch of a wife, Chrissie Watts.
- FlashForward (2009): SIMON. CAMPOS. Seduces cute girls with quantum physics... Habitually breaks into his best friend's house... Kills multiple people with his bare hands.... What's not to like?
- Fringe:
- Walternate, proven in Bloodline.
- David Robert Jones. Plays both Fringe teams (including Walternate) and wins half the time.
- Thomas Jerome Newton. "Now I know how weak you are."
- William Bell, who successfully outplays David Robert Jones.
Walter: You brilliant bastard, Belly. - Glee: Cassandra July in "Glease". She gains Rachel's trust, and sends Rachel and Kurt back to Lima with her own frequent flier miles, so she can seduce Brody and destroy Rachel emotionally.
- Gossip Girl: Chuck Bass.
- And Diana, from Season 5, has everyone wrapped around her little finger, playing with nearly every protagonist with amazing ease, and she doesn't seem to stop anytime soon, especially when you realize that she's in fact Nate's Grandfather's, William, Dragon. What he is up to is yet to be revealed.
- Georgina Sparks tends to have half the cast wrapped around her little finger at any given point in time, and no matter how many times they get rid of her, one way or another she always comes back. Like any good MB, she plays the game well, she is her own best piece, and you just can't keep her down.
- As it turns out, Doctor Van Der Woodsen, the Big Bad of Season 3. Just about everything that happened over the course of the season, from Lily's fake cancer diagnosis to Rufus' supposed infidelity, turned out to be part of his convoluted scheme to drive Lily back into his arms. He even gets away in the end.
- Juliet, who started out as The Dragon of Season 4, but wound up usurping her brother Ben as the Big Bad (before being revealed mid-season as more of an Anti-Villain). Her ability to be a set the regular cast at each others throats, turn defeat into victory, and stay one step ahead of everyone else would impress Machiavelli.
- Bart Bass becomes the King of the trope in New York. Until he succumbed to the Villain Ball. He destroyed every scheme, every person who came against him, not even the combined power of "Blair's Bitches" stopped him. Until he lost to Chuck because well, the writers like Chuck and didn't want to follow the inevitable conclusion that Bart could have Chuck quickly and easily killed without much of a problem.
- As of the finale, Dan Humphrey has obliterated them all and is revealed as a bastard on par with Lionel Luthor and Ben Linus. It's revealed that he has been running the site "Gossip Girl" all along, playing people against each other, effortlessly maintaining his secret and turning the snobby world that looked down upon him into his own personal social experiment.
- Jenny displays quite a natural talent for scheming. She does not always succeed, but in the first season goes toe to toe with Blair, despite the fact that the latter is older, a lot richer, has hordes of minions and apparently years of experience in plotting behind her.
- iClaudius: Livia. She spent years brilliantly and subtly manipulating everyone in the highest level of the Roman Empire, just to get her son Tiberius chosen as Emperor. And that's just a part of what she did.
- Law & Order: Special Victims Unit
- Darius Parker, Fin's stepson. Not only does he commit one of the most heinous crimes described on SVU by murdering a woman, raping her with his KNIFE, and then burying her 14-month-old son alive, but he walks, even after confessing to the crime. How? First he mentions that he has an upcoming burglary case before he confesses to the crime while waving his right to counsel. However, because he mentions his upcoming case, it is implied that he should have counsel present, making his confession and the bodies discovered by that confession inadmissible in court. He then goes to trial and picks apart the prosecution's case while airing Fin and Stabler's dirty laundry, getting the Judge recused from the case by mention the DUI of Stabler's daughter, and getting his mother to reveal that she hates him because he was the child of her rape (by his grandfather/father).
- Stabler has his moments. The opening of one episode showed Stabler unscrewing the bottom of the leg of a chair so it wobbled, loosened a light so it flickered, and turned up the thermostat, all to unnerve a suspect he was about to interview and knew would be hard to crack.
- Alex Cabot always pulls it off with grace and style, so you tend not to notice and/or care.
- Leverage: Jim Sterling, Nate's Not So Different Evil Counterpart and insurance investigator turned Interpol officer, played by none other than the extremely smirk-ey Mark Sheppard. The universal rule of Sterling's appearances on the show is that Sterling never loses, meaning he's immune to Villain Decay. The only way the gang can win when Sterling shows up is to make sure that he wins, too.
- Nate, as well.
- Benjamin Linus is notorious for being a magnificent bastard. His entire character revolves around manipulating others into doing his bidding, constantly lying, and emotional blackmail. He gets through five seasons this way, sometimes allying with the heroes, sometimes opposing them, but (almost) always coming out ahead.
- This trope also belongs to the Man in Black. Manipulative Bastard? Check. And as The Candidate shows, he is one hell of a Chessmaster ( even if it didn't work fully, it was still a badass plan that KILLED 3 MAJOR CHARACTERS!). The way he manipulated Ben to kill Jacob was just classic. Jacob himself also counts.
- Lost Girl: Lauchlan/The Ash II.
- Merlin (2008): Morgause.
- As of Season 5, Morgana seems to be approaching this.
- YMMV/Misfits: Nathan in spades. He's too damn funny to hate.
- Shaun the probation worker - he's a total Jerkass but he's hilarious, and does not take any of the gang's shit.
- NCIS: Ari starts off as one of these (shooting Gerald and managing to escape), then does a Heel–Face Turn when he saves Presidents Bush and Sharon, then crosses the Moral Event Horizon in his final appearance when he murders Kate and tries to kill Abby.
- Hawaii Five-0:
- Wo Fat.
- Kelly Donovan in ""Ma Lalo o ka 'ili".
- True Blood
- Eric plays Sookie for a chump like a champ.
- In season 3, Russell Edgington. Holy shit, Russell Edgington.
- And then Bill in the Season 3 finale, turns on Sophie-Anne, buries Eric in concrete, and, pretending to be Eric, sends an assassin to kill Pam.
- Nan. If her flashback with Bill from the 1980's is any indication, it's clear that she's planning something.
- YMMV/Whitechapel: Anderson in series 2, having manipulated everyone, including the heroes and even the Krays to gain a position of power.
- Fullmetal Alchemist: The Sacred Star of Milos: Atlas, he had everyone fooled until the last few minutes of the film.
- Hexyz Force: Faust again. Goes with his Evil Plan to destroy everything.
I think that's it for now.
IPP Wick Check created.So I was going over Rubert Crogley from DGS and his biggest crimes are blackmail (both Vortex and Gant did this and were approved) and murder of one person. Does this trope have a heinous standard?
And having watched a bit of Danganronpa I can safely say Junko/Monokuma is not a MB. Way too sadistic in how they give the killing students an Ironic Execution.
Edited by Klavice on Nov 16th 2018 at 1:14:56 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Has the Teen Titans Go Slade been discussed? He is definitely sillier than the other incarnations, but he sure plays a mean game of Xanatos Speed Chess and is arguably amd ironically the most competent version of him.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@username I don't think he had. But considered the reputation of the show... Yeah. Also, if this Slade is discussed, I'm cool with it and consider to give it a bit of a leeway by using Theres No Such Thing As Bad Publicity trope even if the stigma with the show is rather strong.
Anyways, I wanted to ask you guys a question: Is there any Magnificent Bastard that suffers Trauma Conga Line? If so, what should we do with the MB that experienced those?
As for Fuuma... Eh, I abstain tbh but leaning towards tentative no. Interesting villain though.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 16th 2018 at 8:25:33 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Abstain on Fuuma.
So does anyone from Lost potentially count?
If anyone does, I'd go with Ben. Some of the Fringe examples, too
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 16th 2018 at 12:32:11 PM
Aaaand just struck me we'll need an Ace Attorney tree, also does the spy go before or after Keyes on this game's page?