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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#4351: Sep 9th 2018 at 8:21:55 AM

@43110 Not a pretty busy day but I'm cool with that. And hopefully i will try to propose some candidates in later future depending on my wifi gets fixed or not.

Also, for the quotes section... Iirc Polar or Drake has a quote from Hank Scorpio.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4352: Sep 9th 2018 at 8:22:52 AM

Uh one of these is a webcomic and another a visual novel, so your going to have to make a new page to put it in.

I suggest Other.Magneficent Bastard as than we'll have a place to put thoose two as they dont quite fit in other sections.

Edited by miraculous on Sep 9th 2018 at 8:27:26 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#4353: Sep 9th 2018 at 9:08:49 AM

Sure... (I think) I've been putting Visual Novel stuff under MagnificentBastard.Video Games but I'm fine with requesting a new section.

Edit: it's just the Fate/stay night entry so I'll ask for like a Nasuverse tree on the new Other page.

Edited by 43110 on Sep 9th 2018 at 12:19:54 PM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#4354: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:01:18 AM

Alright my second Elfes et Nains candidate and maybe the worst one. If he doesn't go up he'd be one of my most frustrating near-miss.

What's the work?

Still a concept series about nations of Elves living in the lands of Arran. This candidate appears in both the Blue Elves and the Dark Elves series. Specifically, the Books 5 "La Dynastie des Elfes noirs" (The Dynasty of the dark elves), 10 "Elfe noir, coeur sombre" (Black Elf, dark heart), 16 "Rouge comme la lave" (Red like lava) and 21 "Renaissance" (Rebirth)

I c/c the info about the dark elves.

" The Dark Elves (Mark Hadrien & Ma Yi): black-skinned and murderous Elves who, while born from other races of Elves, become Dark Elves spontaneously and all serve as assassins for hire. The books follow Gaw'Er, a young Dark Elf taken away from his parents whose love for one of his targets throws his life into disarray."

Who's Great Master Thur'yn?

Great Master Thur'yn is the headmaster of the citadel-school of Slurce where all the dark elves are trained in assassination. He teaches the arts of Necromancy. Let's say that this character caught me by surprise as he initially was a minor antagonist who died in his first appearance. Then much later in the series, we discover the few skeletons in his closet...

What has he done?

Chronologically, the earlier accounts of this prick come from the flashbacks of the sixteenth book.

Once upon a time, the infamous Lah'Saa was a sweet little girl who loved her daddy dearly. She was the heir princess of King Ran'saa, lord of the red elves of the city Oroboria. Unfortunately, she turned out to be a dark elf and a messenger from Slurce came to reclaim her. Since the King didn't want to be separated from his only child let alone have her trained as a cold-blooded killer under harsh conditions, he angrily stabbed the messenger to death.

The Great Master Thur'yn was terribly disappointed that such promising talent wouldn't come in his clutches. One day, his brilliant mind came up with the appropriate punishment for the ungrateful little brat: engineering the genocide of her people! With the help of Mage Slovtan and a mysterious organization, they raised the massive Black Legion "built from the dregs of humanity with a few orcs" who then exterminated everyone in Oroboria.

Confronted by Thur'yn and Slovtan, Lah'Saa defiantly cried that she would never be a dark elf. The Master subsequently ordered the mage a demonstration a how dark her heart truly is. Slovtan took control of the poor girl's body while letting her fully conscious. She then unwillingly grabbed a knife from Thur'yn's hand and slashed the throat of her own father. "She cried. It was the only thing the mage allowed her to do". Lah'Saa taken by force to Slurce, followed the training of a dark elf and filled with resentment against both her oppressors and the rest of the world who didn't lift a finger to protect her people became the dreaded villain but that's neither here nor there for the moment.

Further flashbacks from Book 21 reveal that Thur'yn didn't stop at Oroboria. Oh no, he made sure that the entire red race would be wiped out under the sun. One after the other, havens of the red elves fell. The headmaster decided to test the loyalty of his best student Feda'yn -a dark elf of red origins- to lead the legion and conducts the purge of his hometown the city of Dols. Ah and, for added fun, he also tasked to personally kill his very own family just to prove that there's no weakness in him. Conditioned to blindly follow orders, Fenda'yn coldly followed the cruel orders.

In present day Feda'yn is genuiney remorseful of his crimes and is working with Lanawyn to find a way to restore his race. Feda'yn also states that Thur'yn would have kill him had he refuse to do it and send someone else to do the job. You can argue that Feda'yn basically justifying his cowardice but... given his Thur'yn's personality, I take his words for granted.

Taking place thousand years later, Book 5 shows through its hero Gaw'yn the Training from Hell that every elves endures which is sanctioned by the headmaster. Late comers are publicly whipped once for every minute late. Another punishment is spending the mealtime in a suspended cage on the ceiling of the refectory. They are also taught not to trust each other's, repress their remorse and various ways of murder and torture. They also have "normal" lessons like literature and biology so they can pose as scholars or artists among non-elvish races.

Thur'yn first appearance in the series? He gives his class the first lesson in Necromancy. After explaining the process of extracting the soul of a victim into an amulet, he ends the introduction with "you will now capture your first soul." The slower students to get it get are the first to be killed by their classmates. This ends in bloodshed. Out of 30 students, 15 survive and 15 are killed and get their souls sealed in the amulets. Enjoying the show with a big smile, the teacher dismisses the victims as losers deserving their fate. It's made obvious that this is the procedure he does to every class because Gaw'yn narrates that he now understands why there are less students in the older classes.

Being a very old dark elf, Thur'yn starts succumbing to the degenerative disease and becomes uncontrollable during nightime and asks his pears to chain him up in the secret basement where all the Murth'n Thuns are imprisoned.

By curiosity, Gaw'yn discovers said basement. A hungry master goads the young elf into releasing him through hypnosis. Gaw'yn resits but unfortunately, his rival Droy'yn pulls the lever and Thur'yn immediately attacks Gaw'yn threatening to eat his soul. Luckily, the hero kills the master and captures his soul into his amulet.

Now we jump straight to the climax of the tenth Book. Sorry I'll have to leave out the context to remain concise. Gaw'yn faces his mentor-turned-enemy Varh'yn and another assassin Scup'yn. To defeat them and flee with his girlfriend, Gaw'yn releases the soul of Thur'yn from the amulet. After briefly considering taking revenge on the boy, he turns against his two opponents instead. Thur'yn graphically explodes Scup'yn's head and incinerates Varh'yn (who BTW was his former coworker at Slurce). Varh'yn survives but remains severly disfigured for the rest of the series.

The binding to the amulet being broken, Thur'yn's soul disappears into the void. For good I hope.

Mitaging factors

Okay there's a bit weird retcon. In the Dark Elves series, Thur'yn doesn't seem to be more than a "mere" teacher. So while his Establishing Character Moment of carelessly ordering the death of half of the students was awful, I initially saw him as a "cog in the machine" in the process of raising dark elves. However, the Blue Elves series later portays him as THE Great master who rules the fortress. Perhaps he got demoted over the centuries? The discrepancy might come from the fact that the two series have different writers.

He has no backstories therefore I suppose any Freudian Excuse would be pure conjecture. Well... King Ran'saa killing a messenger WAS a dick move but it's clear that Thur'yn is more offended by his refusal to deliver his daughter. He never alludes to the victim in any fashion. Book 21 has The Reveal that Thur'yn wasn't the sole mastermind behind the genocide. A mysterious organization supported the Black Legion for yet unknown reasons. Nonetheless, Fenda'yn specifically mentions that Thur'yn hired them because they had common interest which is makes clear when the slob gloats that the red elves will be history soon to their princess' face.

He's a grade A Hate Sink. He constantly bears a diabolical smile on his face. And he's so Obviously Evil he basically looks like he could be related to Haazheel. But there's still one annoyingly ambiguous Pet the Dog when Gaw'yn summons his soul at the end of the tenth book. Thur'yn initially considers taking revenge on him but then choses to help him defeating his two opponents instead. Gaw'yn brings that he can be freed once he serves him. Funnily even though Thury'n freaking tried to incinerate hime, Varh'yn claims it's an honor to free him.

Links to the pages of the scene here, here and here so you can judge whether it's redeeming or not.

Heiniousness

Holy crap, I first didn't expect to EP him after reading Book 5 and 10 but he gets a big ass posthumous villainy update with the flashbacks. He breaches the baseline with flying colors.

Is Mester Thur'yn the most heinious villain in the series? Nope. That dishonor still belongs to Lah'Saa but I'd give the good master the silver medal. Even discounting that he's responsible for her Start of Darkness, he's incredibly abhorrent on his own. He conducted a genocide and systematically has half his students killed and have their souls sealed. The pattern has some serious Fridge Horror when you consider that he's been teaching at the school since the days of Laa'Saa, herself an Ancient Evil.

As for my previous candidate Ulronn, I think he more than matches him.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4355: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:03:08 AM

Whoops, mixed up the thread

Edited by Lightysnake on Sep 9th 2018 at 10:05:23 AM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#4356: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:04:00 AM

Oh crap I got the wrong thread evil grinevil grin

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4358: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:35:08 AM

Alright, one I've been meaning to do as well:

What's the work?

Demonbane is a Visual Novel turned anime...basically? Mech-ified HP Lovecraft. Kuro Daijuji is a young detective living in Arkham City who receives a request from the mysterious Hado group to find a magic book. Doing so, Kuro discovers the Necronomicon or Kitab al-Azif....which manifests as a young woman named Al. Al and Kuro bond, forming a pact which allows him to pilot the giant mech, or Ex Machina, the Demonbane...and Kuro is plunged into a war between the Hado group and the evil Black Lodge...and the leader of the Black Lodge? Master Therion.

Who is Therion?

Therion is the most powerful sorcerer alive. A talented, brutal young seeming man, Therion is the son of Nero the Tyrant, a powerful sorceress, and Yog-Sothoth the Outer God. Having experienced the cycle of death and rebirth countless times, enslaved to a timeline that forces endless suffering, Therion wishes to end it himself and liberate himself and all that lives from the suffering. As the head of the Black Lodge and its core elites Anticross, Therion wages a war against the Hado group...it also turns out? He's a genius.

Therion manipulates everyone flawlessly, sending out Anticross to sow chaos and discord to provide for more power for the Black Lodge while setting up Kuro and the others as well. Therion also shows his power by curb stomping Kuro in a fight...without even using his own mech. Now, Therion ends up setting up everyone to the point that Cthulhu itself is summoned in Arkham to allow Therion to destroy the world...at that point, however, the rest of Anticross betray and kill Therion.

....Except he saw it coming an factored it into his plans as he's reborn by the climax of the story, having used Kuro and the others to take out his treacherous followers and set everything up so he can hijack Cthulhu to destroy the world. At the end, he and Kuro have a titanic battle in their mechs, that spans entire multiverses (I'm not exaggerating there), ending in Therion's final defeat....in the sequel, therion even has a full on turn to the good side and ends up fading away with his own Grimoire, Etheldredda, at peace at last.

What about his actions and demeanor show him as an MB?

Therion is relaxed, confident, intelligent and manipulative in all things. He's in control and Kuro only survives a fight with him because Therion allows it. His fellow Anticross members end up wholly manipulated by him. The only person who is shown to be in control there is the true Big Bad Nya...who is actually Nyarlathotep, and has the entire game planned out. However, Nya is literally a God, who has seen everything that has come to pass because she/it keeps resetting the timeline to torture everyone over and over. ven then Therion is able to resist and even help Kuro in the sequel. While he is being used, at least partially, by Nya, she's on a vastly different plane to everyone else save the highest Outer Gods and he still makes a valid showing for himself.

Is he a bastard? Too much?

Therion is a killer who runs the worst group of villains in the world and intends to exterminate reality to free himself of the endless cycle Nya has condemned it to. Yeah, he's a bastard. However, he's nowhere near as depraved as some of his subordinates. He's not a Smug Snake would-be tyrant like Augustus, nor is he a sickening, murderous Serial Rapist like Tiberius (who the more honorable members of Anticross loathe), or a twisted Mad Scientist like Vespasianus. He does have some clear sense of standards and honor and at the end, he acknowledges he genuinely loves Etheldredda as a woman and a partner.

Conclusion?

I'd say yes. The YMMV page lists Nya, but....honestly, Nya is probably FAR too evil for this.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4359: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:36:50 AM

[tup]Therion

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#4365: Sep 9th 2018 at 2:19:59 PM

[tup]To the guy with the same name as the thief from Octopath.

IPP Wick Check created.
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#4366: Sep 9th 2018 at 5:01:58 PM

[tup] Therion. You mentioning Arkham City briefly threw me off, Lighty.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#4367: Sep 9th 2018 at 5:04:19 PM

Hah. I even titled one of my stories after the Arkham City in HP Lovecraft stuff that’s based after

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#4368: Sep 9th 2018 at 10:15:38 PM

Cutting this from Freezing due to a lack of context: Checks out on all six bullet points. Gengo Aoi's a bastard alright.

Same for Black God: Reishin is this for the first 12 episodes of the anime and then Daichi fills that role from episodes 13-16.

Also anyone think this example from Koimoku could be valid?: Hinata managed to get Juumonji to aid Kouta, AND manages to get him to work harder when Mine gives Kouta a speech on how terrible his manuscript is.

Edited by MasterJoseph on Sep 9th 2018 at 10:31:19 AM

IPP Wick Check created.
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#4369: Sep 10th 2018 at 3:52:13 AM

[tup] Therion.

Has any Gotham villain ever been discussed? I think there may be some candidates from there.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4370: Sep 10th 2018 at 4:01:56 AM

I think we said to wait and see on Oswald (Sort of how were waiting on the end of there version of joker in the CM thread). Its his final season coming soon and we want to see how well he handles himself there.

Though I think an ep of maybe Ras al ghul, or one of the other dead badguys might be a good ida.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#4371: Sep 10th 2018 at 4:14:16 AM

[up] This might come across as utterly insane to some people, but how about Lazlo Valentin? Think about it. He's pretty damn manipulative and charismatic, Crazy-Prepared, and let's be honest, more than half of his victims are assholes. Hell, even the whole cannibalism thing he does is moreso Lazlo making fun of the people he's serving the food to rather than him actually liking cannibalism. So thoughts? Should I EP him?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#4373: Sep 10th 2018 at 6:41:21 AM

Incidentally, where did Char Aznable get discussed? Because I was quite surprised to see him make it past the newer, stricter definition - while he’s more competent and calculating in Gundam: The Origin, the manga reimagining of Mobile Suit Gundam, in the original UC saga from MSG to Char’s Counterattack, he’s an indecisive, insecure mess with a crippling fear of responsibility who only manages to get his shit together briefly (as a hero, mind you, not a villain) before his past catches up with him and he’s pummelled past the Despair Event Horizon into a messy, self-destructive, and kind of pathetic Face–Heel Turn.

What's precedent ever done for us?
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
dood9780 Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World from The Vortex World Since: Mar, 2014
Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World
#4375: Sep 10th 2018 at 8:53:27 AM

[tup] to Therion.

I was NOT gonna pass up the opportunity to upvote a candidate voiced by Hikaru Midorikawa!

"Death's vastness holds no peace. I come at the end of the long road—neither human, nor devil... All bends to my will." -Demifiend.

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