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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#43253: Apr 6th 2021 at 4:38:29 PM

Ozy quote works.

Insert Paul Simon joke here.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 6th 2021 at 7:38:37 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#43254: Apr 6th 2021 at 4:46:53 PM

[tup]Bug (so this is where we are as a society), Simon, and Shannon

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#43258: Apr 6th 2021 at 6:33:20 PM

Yes to Simon, bug, and Paul

Hey while I was at work a few ideas about where to look for Mario keepers popped into my head, I haven't played it but could someone from Paper Mario: The Origami King count? My second idea would be someone from he Mario Party games since some of them do have plots.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#43259: Apr 6th 2021 at 6:39:19 PM

I went over that. I don't feel anyone does. All the bosses are Orcus On Their Throne types. I don't really feel like the battles add that much cunning. There was a toad captain who had the charm and rudimentary villainy, but he was somewhat humiliated in his backstory and doesn't do much present in the game. As for the main villain he has genocidally racist intentions born out of a very petty reason (a toad drew on him). He does have a tragic end but that's too much. He doesn't do much planning either.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#43260: Apr 6th 2021 at 7:54:18 PM

Yup, j had reserved and covered that game.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#43261: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:10:39 PM

'Yes' to Simon and Morgan freaking Freeman, of course!

Next up from the wacky world of Backyardigans lmao

Who is the Gloom Meister? What makes him a candidate?

The Gloom Meister—the character of Austin playing the role—is a well-dressed supervillain with a robotic glove capable of casting shadows and a hatred for flowers and all things pretty, appearing in the aptly-named "Flower Power."

When the heroic Flower Girl arrives in Garden City to spread beauty and plants galore, the Gloom Meister schemes to plunge Garden City into a perpetual....gloominess! Using his shadow glove to endanger a variety of citizens to alert Flower Girl to him, the Gloom Meister lets her witness him fleeing to his lair in the underground sewer system where she follows.

As soon as she enters, however, the Gloom Meister springs his trap and cages her, away from the sunlight that gives her power and rendering her useless. Mocking her with his Evil Laugh—that he humorously reveals is a fake one that he uses in the place of a dorky, snorty one—and a charming song about how "Me and My Shadows" seek to end all things good, the Gloom Meister whips out his greatest invention: the Gloomsday machine, a larger-scale version of his glove that will cast a shade over all of Garden City and blot out the sun forever.

As the Gloom Meister's scheme begins working, Flower Girl manages to escape by a literal second of time letting the sun shine inside the Meister's lair and power her up...the Gloom Meister doesn't even fret as he is confronted by the heroine, instead dueling with her in-between a duet the two sing about their opposing viewpoints and powers.

The Gloom Meister takes advantage of nearby citizens distracting Flower Girl to get the drop on her several times, and—when he realizes he alone can't beat her—he quickly channels his Gloomsday device to strike her directly, draining her of her powers fast and leaving her at his mercy. As our villain is about to declare victory, however, Flower Girl uses the last of her power to send out a pollen strike...that promptly leads to the Gloom Meister sneezing uncontrollably, damaging the Gloomsday machine's aim and allowing Flower Girl to use her powers to render it useless with flowers and grass.

Remarking his disgust with how Flower Girl has made his machine "yucky and pretty!", Gloom Meister is confronted by the townsfolk and Flower Girl on his hatred of flowers, to which he sheepishly reveals...he's scared of them due to their bright colors and contrast to his life of gloom. However, urged to smell a nearby flower for the first time in his life, the Gloom Meister realizes the error of his ways as he sees how beautiful plants can be, and promptly reinvents himself in split-second's time to become "the Bloom Meister", before happily offering Flower Girl his service as a sidekick.

Is Gloom Meister magnificent?

Most def, he's a parody of a comic book supervillain who successfully outplays Flower Girl several times and endangers the whole city with his G L O O M, all while having neat songs and being gleefully Faux Affably Evil.

The only real issue is that his defeat by pollen and ensuing reaction borders slightly on a Villainous Breakdown, as he lets out a Big "NO!", recoils in disgust at the flowers that ruined his machine, then sheepishly admits his motive was nothing but a fear of flowers....but I do think it's a case where his quick, joyous realization of the error of his ways and subsequent Heel–Face Turn do a lot to overshadow (heh pun) that momentary slip of his collected persona.

Is Gloom Meister a bastard?

Yep, he endangers several citizens (like, to the point of one nearly getting in a trolley crash and another nearly falling off a skyscraper), captures Flower Girl, then tries to plunge all of Garden City into perpetual dark and gloominess.

Final Verdict?

Eeeyep!

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#43262: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:16:40 PM

[tup] Gloom Meister.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#43263: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:24:57 PM

And a yup for the good Meister!

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#43265: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:52:34 PM

[tup]to Paul Shannon, Bug & Gloomy.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#43267: Apr 6th 2021 at 8:56:16 PM

Something I just caught btw: On YuYu Hakusho Sensui's entry poses a question and then answers it part way through, which reads rather awkwardly:

  • The "Black Angel", Shinobu Sensui was once a brilliant young Spirit Detective whose idealistic view of humans was shattered by the Black Black Club. Years later, he uses the depraved Chapter Black tape to recruit a group of psychics to his side as Team Urameshi goes after him, manipulating all his enemies and allies alike to achieve his goals and weaken Yusuke's team. In one instance, Sensui forces Kurama to duel in a game against a little boy, with the boy not knowing he will die if he loses. Sensui is aware Kurama will do it, but knows it will shake him up too much to be of use in fighting Sensui at his best later, while also knowing a guilt-stricken Koenma will use up too much power restoring the boy to life. Sensui also uses his multiple personalities to bear the burdens of his crimes, revealing his true self in time to defeat and even kill Yusuke before opening a path to the demon world. His true goal? Is an elaborate suicide attempt to die at the hands of a powerful demon to atone for taking so many demon lives in the past. Passing as a dark mirror to Yusuke himself, Sensui remains one of his most sympathetic and fascinating enemies.

Just to remove that and format it so his name is faced like the others:

  • Shinobu Sensui, the "Black Angel", was once a brilliant young Spirit Detective whose idealistic view of humans was shattered by the Black Black Club. Years later, Sensui uses the depraved Chapter Black tape to recruit a group of psychics to his side as Team Urameshi goes after him, manipulating all his enemies and allies alike to achieve his goals and weaken Yusuke's team. In one instance, Sensui forces Kurama to duel in a game against a little boy, with the boy not knowing he will die if he loses. Sensui is aware Kurama will do it, but knows it will shake him up too much to be of use in fighting Sensui at his best later, while also knowing a guilt-stricken Koenma will use up too much power restoring the boy to life. Sensui also uses his multiple personalities to bear the burdens of his crimes, revealing his true self in time to defeat and even kill Yusuke before opening a path to the demon world, with his true goal being an elaborate suicide attempt to die at the hands of a powerful demon to atone for taking so many demon lives in the past. Passing as a dark mirror to Yusuke himself, Sensui remains one of his most sympathetic and fascinating enemies.

Thoughts? I didn't really edit anything else if anyone has further suggestions.

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#43268: Apr 6th 2021 at 9:05:48 PM

Yup I'm good with that rewrite. Sensui, a great example of this trope.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#43270: Apr 6th 2021 at 11:54:11 PM

Let's try an EP! (My first)

I've searched, and I don't think that anyone has proposed this one yet. If I missed it, I'm sorry. Folderized, as this turned out to be very long.

What is the work?

David Weber's Empire from the Ashes is a hard sci/fi trilogy following Colin Mac Intyre, his family, and associates.

  • The first book covers Colin's discovery that humans are descended from the crew of the starship "Dahak" belonging to something called "The Fourth Imperium." He must find a way to end the shadow war against the mutineer Anu (Has a fully deserved Complete Monster entry) that stranded Dahak here 50,000 years ago, and he has to do it fast, because the alien Achuultani are on their way, and they do not leave survivors.
  • The second covers a mad dash to find imperial reinforcements, the siege of earth, and the final campaign against the Achuultani incursion force.
  • The third book comes about 20 years later, and is split between political intrigue in the newly (re-)formed "Fifth Imperium" and the adventures of several young officers stuck out in the back end of nowhere who just want to phone home.

    Who is Mister X? 

Lawrence Jefferson only appears to the reader in the third book. He was US Senator who had been suborned by Anu. He survived the mutiny war only because he was too small a fish to be pulled into the mutineer's enclave for protection near the climax, and since there was so much confusion as other world governments fell or were reorganized, he was able to fade his connections into the woodwork. During the siege of earth, he distinguished himself in supporting the rump Imperial government as it coordinated the massive armaments programs and tech upgrades that kept earth from being flattened within a few weeks, and after the war he was elected (Apparently with complete legitimacy) to the post of Lieutenant Governor of earth: the number 2 civilian position in the largest constituency of the newly arising Fifth Imperium.

However, he has a great deal of ambition, and has not grown a set of ethics since his days of schilling for Anu. He has the soul of a gambler, and wants to run the imperium himself. Using his Imperial contacts, he assembles the pieces for a coup: Specialized hardware and facilities, a strike team, and two separate fall-guys to cover the fact that it was a coup in the first place. He uses bribery and coercion to suborn officers, technicians, and a major team lead in the office of shipbuilding.

In parallel with this, he builds a completely independent and completely clueless cleanup crew: Playing on lingering tension and discontent due to economic dislocations that have their roots in the rapid introduction of Imperial tech, and some good old fashioned bigotry, he uses bishop Francis Higelman to build a church that equates the invasion and siege with the apocalypse from the book of Revelation and casts the Acuultani as the Anti-Christ. They fan the flames of objection to the rehabilitation and societal integration of Acuultani PO Ws taken in the incursion war, and use carefully crafted rhetoric to first polarize a group of hardliners into being willing to take up arms, and then drive them from the public face of the church to make them desparate. These guys do typical terrorist stuff —hit soft targets, assassinate minor staffers from the Imperial Government, etc. They don't realize that their orders are coming from Jackson himself, and are often targeting someone who's usefulness has come to an end. In one case, he uses them to provide the coercion and then clean up the mess when the job is done.

On just a couple of weeks notice, he removes the Imperial Heirs and three of their closest friends from the equation by sabotaging the warship on which they are deployed. This is covered as an accident that took out upwards of 80,000 service personnel. Over the next couple of years, he builds and arranges the delivery of a super-bomb that would take out the Imperial capitol and "Mother", a giant AI battlestation that acts as fleet headquarters and is hardwired to preserve the constitutional integrity of the Imperium.

At nearly the last minute, the bomb is discovered and neutralized. A short-notice backup hit on the empress, who was unexpectedly out of town, also fails —but even then, he's still got cutouts and plans for the future, and the assassination attempt did kill his boss, so he is up for promotion! It only falls apart due to one minor detail: He's constructed a very detailed diary, ostensibly by his fall guy, bragging about his plans to overthrow the government, but it doesn't include the assassination of the heirs. By this time, the imperial family and a very few select brass in the navy know that the "accident" happened on purpose, so they now have a very short list of other people who would have had the appropriate access.

    Is he Magnificent? 

  • Dances on a sword's edge in the heart of his enemy's power with panache and style, in a somewhat twisted way. He's the sort of villain that allows his minions to celebrate for a few minutes when they've completed a technically difficult task "because they've earned it" —and then murders them to cover up their actions.
  • Able to plan ahead 13 ways till Sunday, but still improvises well on the fly:
    • The hit on the empress goes together on an hour's notice or so, and should have worked —a 100 man assault team should have been enough to take a half-platoon of guards, a very pregnant empress, and an old dude.
    • The assassination of the heirs was done in a very roundabout way, and was put together on just a couple of weeks notice.
  • Chameleon. He's personally known to the people he's plotting against, and his boss, the Governor of Earth, (See "Old Dude" above) thinks that they are friends.
  • Multiple backup plans, with cutouts and layered coverage. His downfall comes from three very minor leaks, all of which have an element of serendipity:
    • A tiny bobble in the timing on the murder of the saboteur clues the Imperials in that the destruction of "Imperial Terra" was intentional: If a certain "accidental death" report had come in a couple of days sooner, it would have been rubber stamped and probably forgotten. As it was, it came in while Admiral Mac Mahon was grieving, and sat in her inbox until she started to put herself back together. The date coincidence stuck out to her, and they took his pre-death actions apart with a microscope. This leads to increased "black" naval surveillance that catches the next two.
    • A naval team lucks into catching a terrorist cell as they launch an attack. Naval Intelligence handles the cleanup, and finds evidence that leads them to deduce the existence of the superbomb —The terrorists had been used to clean out the team that built the bomb and kept a souvenir. They didn't even know what their "trophy" was.
    • Another timing bobble when trying to lay the groundwork for blaming the bomb on a third party. This allows an analyst to catch that some official data was being changed. This leads to the locating and ultimately defusing of the bomb. The blame attempt also helped narrow down just who might be trying to lay blame in the first place. (Jefferson has no reason to suspect that these particular logs are being examined at all, let alone in this much detail —The analyst is literally playing with offline copies, which is rather unusual.)

He does have a minor panic attack when he realizes that the bomb has been found, but not yet neutralized. He settles in and improvises on the fly, and almost makes it out.

    Is he a Bastard? 

  • 80,000 servicemembers dead to cover an assassination.
  • 10s of millions in the path of the superbomb, if it had gone off.
  • Loosing terrorists on the civilian population and arming them with Imperial weapons. (A naval officer's sidearm would be enough to take out a T-2000. Infantry primary weapons are horrific.) They are a very-much-not-paper tiger to mask his own ops, and even the cover ops tend to take out civilian bystanders.
  • No remorse, and the only regret that he'd have if he won would be that there were no more mountains to climb.

All this for the sake of his ambition. He doesn't even pretend in his own head that he's doing this for the greater good. At one point he muses that the only problem with the Mac Intyre administration is that it isn't the Jefferson administration —yet.

Verdict

Very slick, intelligent operator that has an entire empire completely bamboozled for most of the book. I'd keep him.

Edited by underCoverSailsman on Apr 6th 2021 at 1:58:16 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#43271: Apr 7th 2021 at 4:13:17 AM

[tup]gloom

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#43273: Apr 7th 2021 at 6:36:54 AM

[tup]Gloom (if we get a page dedicated to Backyardigans I swear to God)

Admittedly iffy on X, simce I’m not sure if he’s too bastardly or not.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#43274: Apr 7th 2021 at 6:42:34 AM

X does sound awful... let's talk about this a bit.

Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Gotta love Jaws!
#43275: Apr 7th 2021 at 6:47:08 AM

Abstain on X. I didn't even see the "Is he a Bastard?" folder. I probably shouldn't vote on EP's when I'm really tired.

"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"

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