During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
And Ravok inspied me on this one!
From Alien vs. Predator, the novel and comic! When the Colony of Prosperity Wells undergoes a Xenomorph invasion, well...enter the Predator POV character "Broken-Tusk" for the one broken mandible real name Dachande.
Who is Dachande?
Dachande, also known as "Yeyinde," ("Brave One"...Dachande means "Different Knife") is a Yautja from a storied lineage. Growing up with a half-brother he was close with, said brother died on a Blooding ritual and Dachande from then on would no longer acknowledge him....when the story begins, Dachande is part of a conflict to claim the next hunting grounds. When his rival Top-Knot wins several fights, Dachande challenges and defeats him, choosing Ryushi to seed with Xenomorph eggs...unknown to Dachande, the colony of Prosperity Wells is nearby, along with the heroine Machiko...Top Knot leads a hunt on another world and Dachande takes his subordinates down to Ryushi.
Things go wrong. Dachande is involved in a crash from a human shuttle, knocked out and taken by the humans. The young males he was leading are then led by a ruthless young Yautja named Tichinde who declares war on the humans and begins leading a slaughter of them...I don't just mean soldiers, Tichinde attacks a homestead, killing a dog, the farmer and his wife with only the little boy escaping...Dachande is taken to be healed and awakens, becoming aware the humans are helping him...
Unfortunately, the xenomorph outbreak spreads out of control on Prosperity Wells, and Dachande manages to save Machiko from Tichinde when he comes calling...after this? Dachande sees Tichinde has a pack of human skulls, including kids. As a result, Dachande is fucking pissed' at the violation of the honor code and even wounded is more than a match for the vicious young blood, executing him on the spot before allying with Machiko. Dachande and Machiko form a team, using clever strategies together to deal with the Xenos and Yautja....the two end up almost killing the Xeno queen, only for her to survive and impale Dachande, who uses what remains of his life to help Machiko kill her...as he dies in Machiko's arms, Dachande uses the bleeding finger of the alien queen to scar Machiko's forehead with his clan symbol...acknowledging her as a true equal as he dies, so that Machiko will be recognized by the Predators who find her...
How's he operate?
As Machiko puts it: "I half expected a replay of the the lost battles I'd seen earlier, but the broken-tusked warrior was no inexperienced novice. He measured every step, timed every strike."
Dachande is a brilliant hunter, a tactical fighter, a born leader with intense charisma so that he's well admired and honored among the Yautja. Now, the book has a lot from his POV, so we see that he operates by the bizarre code of the Yautja...honor, the Hunt being all...but he's no sadistic monster. And there are some hilarious misundertandings...like when the shuttle there on begins to spiral out of control and the humans are panicking, Dachande simply assumes they're just worried that their deaths won't be glorious enough and thinks it's a pretty reasonable concern at the time.
He and Machiko also make a firmly good team and the guy has a legion of intelligent hunts behind him. Pass.
Is he a bastard? Too much?
Dachande is...well, he's a Yautja. He dismisses his unblooded, dead brother after he dies against a Xeno without glory...also, he doesn't know that Ryushi has a human colony when he unleashes the xeno eggs, but honestly? He doesn't much care. The Yautja simply release the Xenos to hunt them, which can easily kill innocent people. It's part of their culture and Dachande doesn't give a damn about that. That said, he's not on board hunting and killing innocent people (well...innocent by Yautja standards is described as those who can't fight him back) and Tichinde murdering children royally enrages him to the point he straight up executes Tichinde.
Even without that, Dachande is genuinely grateful to the humans who saved him and fights along with them. Whn a human realizes he's been implanted with a chestburster and needs to be euthanized, Dachande offers to do it so Machiko won't have to. He's shown to be mourning the doctor who saved his life and respects Machiko...that said, Machiko is left to wonder that if Dachande survived? If he might be involved in hunting humans as well. And absolutely nothing indicates he wouldn't.
Conclusion?
A strong yes for Dachande.
Okay, taking a small break from the Tales Series to hash out one I've been meaning to do for a while. As in, "meant to get him up when I was doing epic poems a while back but never did."
What's the work?
None other than the classic Indian epic, the Mahabharata. It details the struggle between two groups of cousins in the Kurukshetra War and the fates of the Kauravas and the Pandavas. It is a Sanskrit tale that informed of Hindu morality and history, one of the oldest epics in the world, and the longest epic poem in the world.
Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?
Prince of the Gandhara Kingdom and the brother of Gandhari, Shakuni was the root of all the conspiracies of Duryodhana against the Pandavas, which resulted in the Kurukshetra War. But let's go back and set the stage for that, shall we?
Shakuni was the son of Subala, Gandhara's king, and Queen Sudarma. He had a sister named Gandhari, who he loved dearly. Bhisma was intent on making an heir to the throne of the Kuru Kingdom at the city of Hastinapur, so he approached Subala with a marriage proposal for Gandhari and the eligible bachelor Dhritarashtra. Shakuni hated the idea of his sister marrying a blind man—much less because the marriage wouldn't even make Dhritarashtra the king. He was further angered when Gandhari told him that she did not want to marry Dhritarashtra, but Bhisma gave her no choice. Gandhari blindfolded herself as a silent protest. Seeing this, Dhritarashtra refused to accept Gandhari as his wife, and Shakuni was angered further. Eventually, Bhisma began his conquest. He fought, defeated, and left the Ghandara dynasty to starve in a dungeon. Other stuff happens resulting in the children of Dhritarashtra became known as the Kauravas while the children of Pandu, the second son, are called Pandavas.
And so, the clever and shrewd beast known as Shakuni had been awakened and began to use his many intellectual talents to get back at the world. The start of this? He began influencing his nephew, Duryodhana, from his childhood. When the young Pandavas and Kauravas are playing, Shakuni made a point to always support Duryodhan in whatever childish argument. Shakuni would turn these small fights into big issues, and whenever the Pandavas beat the Kauravas in the games which they were playing, Duryodhan would get angry. After a while of this, Shakuni escalated the conflict by telling Duryodhana to poison the Pandavas Bheema. Duryodhan in fact did it twice, but that was thwarted by the nagas.
So, onto to Plan B. Shakuni constructs a plan he confides to his nephew where they would invite the Pandavas to the House of Wax, which is exactly what you'd expect. Then they would hire Purochana to set it aflame. The plan worked swimmingly until the Pandavas created an escape route when the found out the plan.
After the whole palace-melting incident, you'd think the Pandavas would be ready to throw hands or tell their cousins to cut that shit out. Well, no. And for good reason: they're winning. As in, they've already conquered the world. GG git gud, scrubs. Ever ambitious, Shakuni helps Duryodhan get jealous of the Pandavas' continued success. He advises Duryodhan to play a game of dice with the Pandavas whle Shakuni himself has die made out of his father's bones. So, whenever he rolls the dice, his father in heaven can decide what number to land on.
Duryodhan invites Yuddhisthira, another Pandava, to the pivotal dice game and gets Shakuni, to play on his behalf as intended. With a silver tongue, Shakuni gradually gets Yuddhisthira to stake and lose step-by-step his entire wealth, his kingdom, his brothers, himself, and his wife Draupadi. After being humiliated, they are exiled for thirteen years. King Dhritarashtra promises to give back their kingdom if they are not caught by the end of the exile. His sons, however, are desperate to prevent this.
These tensions would boil over and thus the Kurukshetra War finally starts. Duryodhan wanted to make Shakuni a commander-in-chief, but he declines, instead advising Duryodhan to feed Shalya's army in order to put Shalya in his debt and therefore make Shalya fight for him. That works too! However, he still participated in the war and defeated many warriors.
Well, except for one that really wanted his damn head. Guy named Sahadeva had taken an oath to kill Shakuni after what he pulled. On the 18th day of the battle, the Pandavas attacked Shakuni, his son Uluka and their army. After Uluka is slain, naturally Shakuni tries to go Papa Wolf on some poor shmucks, but after a long fight with chariots, bows, and a duel, Sahadeva smashes an axe into Shakuni's forehead, leading to his death.
Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligent, Adaptable, etc.)? Why or why not?
An Evil Genius and Chessmaster, Shakuni is super persuasive and orchestrates the onset of war, preying on everyone else's flaws to push the kingdom into a civil war. He groomed Duryodhana into being the instrument for war since childhood, carefully putting him into seemingly mild situations to nurture hatred and coming up with a series of plots one after other. It was all too easy for him to use the situation to fan Duryodhana's hatred, later manipulating such when the full-on war occurs.
Speaking of, he got the war he wanted by showing his chops in the dice game. ow, yes, he did rig the dice game, but there's still genius involved. After all, he didn't make Yuddhisthira give up his land. By taking advantage of Yudhisthira's gambling addiction, Shakuni got him to raise the stakes during the dice game and bet the entire kingdom, which ends up forcing the Pandavas into exile.
Oh, he also gets his cousin a damn good commander to lead his army by taking advantage of good-old hospitality debt.
Bastard? Not too much of one?
While his nephew Duryodhana is the immediate threat and catalyst, it is Shakuni's manipulations that turned everything to shit in the epic all because the Kuru destroyed his dynasty and Bhisma made his sister marry a blind man. Combine that with the fact his grudge is also exacerbated by Bhishma for imprisoning and torturing Gandhari's family, Shakuni schemes to escalate the coming conflict catastrophic levels to get his admittedly understandable revenge. He loves his family dearly and wants to put the world on the tip of a pike precisely because they treated them all wrong.
Competition?
Really, Shakuni instigated all the conflict by being such a good master manipulator. There is no competition when you're playing all sides for suckers.
Conclusion?
Keep.
Edited by erazor0707 on Mar 21st 2021 at 10:48:40 AM
I'm iffy. There's I guess heavy Values Dissonance, but given that my mother is blind, I'm inherently turned off by someone being so mad that their sister is being forced to marry a blind man...
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midYeah, there's absolutely Values Dissonance involved note , and I can totally understand any reluctance on that front, J.
Edited by erazor0707 on Mar 21st 2021 at 10:56:14 AM
This candidate isn’t an inanimate object, but...he primarily uses one! In other words, woo! This is finally ready:
What is the work?
Kingsman: The Golden Circle is the 2017 sequel to the 2015 hit Kingsman: The Secret Service with both movies focusing on Gary "Eggsy" Unwin, an early 20s year old British petty criminal who becomes a member of the super secret spy organization Kingsman and in each film, gets involved in helping save the world, becoming the current Galahad in the process. The sequel specifically involves teaming up with the American equivalent the Statesmen. The movies are a send-up of the Tuxedo and Martini spy genre and while they are certainly comedic, there’s enough played seriously (though this is MB, not CM, so I think we’re good here either way).
Who is he and what has he done?
Agent Whiskey (real name Jack Daniels) is the head of Statesman's New York office. He heads to Kentucky to help out Eggsy and they head to a Woodstock-type concert to locate Clara Von Gluckfberg, the girlfriend of Charlie Hesketh, rejected Kingsman turned henchman to Poppy Adams (the psychotic head of the drug-peddling Golden Circle). Whiskey helps Eggsy to woo her so that while Eggy’s making out with Clara, he can painlessly insert a tracking device into her uh...that’s all I need to say about it.
When Harry Hart (the previous Galahad thought dead) gets his memory back and is then attacked in a bar by a bunch of jerks, Whiskey uses his special lasso and a bunch of stuff in the bar to take the men out single-handedly while saving Harry. Later on when he, Eggsy and Harry infiltrate Poppy’s facility in the Alps to steal a sample of the antidote (Poppy’s infected everyone in the world whose taken her drugs with a deadly virus and is withholding the cure to get her empire legalized), Whiskey uses his laser feature on his lasso to disable the spin feature on the gondola when Charlie spins it out of control. On the ground, Whiskey sees a bunch of armed men coming and takes the opportunity to knock the vile with the cure out of Eggsy’s hand so it smashes on the ground and looks like an accident (more on that in a bit).
Whiskey then without any backup takes out all the guys with both guns and only pulls out his lasso to vivisect the last guy because he ran out of bullets. Harry realizes what Whiskey did though (cause the antidote vial to break on purpose) and after a bit of hesitation, shoots Whiskey in the head. Eggsy however uses the same Alpha Gell device on him to save him that was used to save Harry when Richmond Valentine shot him at the end of the first movie.
As Eggsy, Harry and Merlin head to Poppy’s compound (more drug users also die), Whiskey recovers from the wound, gets his memory back thanks to Statesman’s techie Ginger Ale and then heads there himself in a jet. After Merlin’s sacrificed himself, Eggsy and Harry take out Charlie and the other henchman and drugged Poppy to get the code while accidentally killing her (she deserves far worse), Whiskey throws his lasso over Harry’s head and threatens to kill him if he doesn’t get the case that the code needs to be entered into. Whiskey when asked if he works for the US President (who’s planning to let the drug users all die for PR) calls the guy a prick and says he’s not.
Whiskey at first says that Statesman’s whiskey sales will go up with no more drugs being sold, but that’s not the real reason he’s doing it. The real and more understandable reason is 20 years earlier his pregnant girlfriend was murdered in a store by two meth users trying to rob it and Whiskey firmly believes he’s gonna rid the world of those people by not saving anyone who’s infected. After an intense fight in which Whiskey once again exhibits all skills he has previously, Eggsy and Harry kill him by throwing him headfirst into Poppy’s mincer and he’s completely ground up.
Is he magnificent?
He’s a very skilled fighter who has no trouble whatsoever holding his own in a fight and using his prowess and lasso to his advantage. Whiskey also is good at thinking on his feet by means of readying himself for a fight and when he takes on Eggsy and Harry in a fight at the end, he nearly beats them both without too much of a challenge. Whiskey also is able to fool Eggsy before that that breaking the antidote vial was an accident and even when Harry doesn’t buy it and shoots Whiskey, Eggsy still takes his word for it over Harry’s.
Bastard? Too much?
When Whiskey mentions that his own son would’ve been about Eggsy’s age, you totally feel for him about it. While he seeks to profit to a degree from all the deaths, unlike Poppy being the evil, sadistic bitch she is and the President being a smug and pompous asshole, he’s doing it for what he believes is a genuinely good reason and that it’s gonna make the world a better place. While it’s mentioned that Whiskey was the only one who ever voted against and blocked Ginger Ale’s requests to become a Statesman (and she ironically becomes his successor) and may imply a thin layer of sexism, it’s absolutely never explored beyond any of that (other than when he heavily flirts with her before getting his memory back, but that was at a point when he was clearly far less mature and doesn’t do that at all when he’s restored back to himself).
Verdict?
He’s a
for me!
Yes to Dachande, Whiskey, and I guess Shakuni.
I think it might be fun to talk about my future plans for effort posts. Tomorrow, I'll be doing what I think might be my final Skyrim effort post. It will be interesting in the sense that the character is The Scrappy for the very reason she can be considered a bitch. Scraggle in particular hates this character, but I'll be doing Delphine of the Blades (as opposed to Esbern who turns out doesn't do much) who I believe counts on paper. Also thinking about doing Miraak from the Dragonborn expansion if we can forgive him for losing his gambit to Hermaeus Mora, a god.
After finishing up the Elder Scrolls stuff, I'm gonna do a couple from the Dark Sun Dungeons and Dragons setting. Maybe Lighty will like to work with me on that since we split the Complete Monsters from that setting.
Finally after all that, I'm gonna do another deep dive and get up a bunch of candidates from RuneScape and maybe even get a page if I can find enough. I already got 5 I think will be easy additions.
One thing at a time though.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Based on the EP,
to Arbutus.
Forgot to mention: Much like Valentine, Whiskey is about doing what he has to to make things better no matter how extreme and yeah, as messed up as what happened to his girlfriend was, he’s still managed to carry himself very well since then.
Anymore Aladdin candidates coming on either end?
Potholed everything in the drafts
I'm continuing my Buffy binge as well - man, I keep blinding myself to how much the first season just doesn't hold up in any way. On the plus side, The Master is a delightfully entertaining Big Bad, so I have watching him to look forward to - even if I'm still like 98% sure he doesn't count.
On the other hand, he's got an Alternate Universe counterpart who actually wins, but then I think he crosses the "bastard" line into "monster" territory... In case you can't tell, this show's gonna be a wild ride for me.
Still haven't read whiskey, but we don't upvote Scrappies. If the character in question is legitimately one, they cannot count. That means they've failed the charm aspect. On the other hand if the character is a Base-Breaking Character then they might be able to count.
Edited by jjjj2 on Mar 21st 2021 at 12:19:47 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid

Third for Ron Perlman btw
The next guy is that snake assassin and Genie hunter Kassir right ? Going off characters pages.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."