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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#37651: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:07:37 PM

Here with a surprise EP for a television show.

I feel necessary to perhaps give a content warning - given the body of work, this is going to be talking liberally about rape.

What is the work?

The work is Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, a spin-off of Law & Order that focuses on sex crimes.

Who is the character?

The character is Darius Parker, who features in the Season 7 episode "Venom" and Season 8 episode "Screwed".

What does he do?

SVU Detective Fin gets involved in a case when Ken, his son by his ex-wife Theresa (Fin is estranged from both), is found digging in an abandoned lot, and is arrested for a scuffle with the police officers who found him. Ken explains to Fin he was at a bar with his cousin Darius when they overheard a man bragging that he raped a woman with a knife three years ago and buried her body in the lot. The detectives find Ken's story highly suspicious since it makes no sense to go looking for a body based on a stranger's words he overheard in a bar. The police dig up the lot and find several bodies, since the area is a prime dumping ground for anyone who would need to dispose of a victim, but none of them match the story Ken provided. Fin and Detective Munch question Darius, who has a criminal history but is now a sculptor and artist; he takes pride in reforming himself after getting out of prison and insists he's living a clean life. With other leads drying up and mounting evidence that Ken had opportunity and motive to commit the murder, he becomes the prime suspect.

Meanwhile the police look for cold cases that could be their victim and find Nina Stansfield, a woman who went missing three years ago; a bloody knife was found at the crime scene with vaginal fluids on the blade, and they found foreign DNA on the carpet. Her infant son Stevie also went missing at the time. Fin convinces Ken to take a DNA test to compare to the DNA at the crime scene, and the test confirms Ken isn't the killer, but a male relative is - Darius. However, the test also reveals that Darius isn't Ken's cousin, but his brother through Theresa, something that stuns Fin. Fin confronts Theresa and she admits she was raped before she met Fin and her mother took Darius to raise; she never told anyone else the truth, and refuses to identify the father. It happens that one of Darius' ex-girlfriends babysat for Nina.

The detectives question Nina's widow for leads that could connect Darius to the crime and he tells them about a family heirloom rattle that may have been stolen, as it disappeared around the time of her death and Stevie's disappearance. The police search Darius' apartment and find the rattle, hidden in one of his sculptures, but the lab cannot get DNA from it after so long. Fin questions Darius and he admits his grandmother told him the truth about his parentage, a secret he wishes she took to the grave with her. Darius explains he confessed the murder to Ken because he still felt guilty for getting away with it while living his newly rebuilt life, and admits to the detectives that he killed Nina and her son. He leads them to where he buried the bodies and tests confirm what the evidence suggested, that Darius raped and killed Nina with the knife found at the crime scene. Stevie died by asphyxiation from being buried alive with her.

Darius is arrested for Nina's murder, but his attorney arrives and a highly unfortunate legal technicality surfaces - Darius had been read his rights and agreed to speak to the detectives without his attorney present, but he had also told them he was being actively investigated for another case, burglary. The detectives thus knew from this that Darius had an attorney but did not contact him, but because the burglary case was ongoing they had to contact the attorney regardless of whether Darius asked for one or them. Because they didn't notify the attorney, all of Darius' testimony and the evidence found from it, including the bodies, are deemed to have been obtained illegally and cannot be admitted as evidence in a trial. The detectives realize this is all too convenient, Darius set them up to confess to his crimes and still get away with them.

With no other evidence to convict on, Fin gets in touch with Darius' ex-girlfriend who babysat for Nina. She confirms Darius and Nina had met and hated each other, and also reveals the knife used to rape Nina was a gift she gave Darius. This gives the detectives enough to take Darius to court for Nina's murder, though they have no evidence to convict him of Stevie's murder since legally the discovery of his body is inadmissible, and thus they technically cannot state Stevie is even dead. The prosecutor, Casey, grudgingly agrees to offer Darius a very lenient deal on sentencing if he confesses to the murder of the infant. Darius is arrested and interrogated, and though his attorney tries to deal with Casey, Darius shuts him down and refuses to accept any plea deals - he wants his day in court, because Fin, Theresa, and Ken, will all be called upon to testify, and he wants to drag his family through the mud with him, payback for doing nothing for him his entire life. Particularly, Darius knows Theresa will have to publicly admit at last that she's his real mother.

The trial for Nina's assault and murder gets underway and Theresa is served a subpoena to testify as witness for the defense; if she refuses, she'll be arrested, and this is exactly what happens. Fin, and detectives Stabler and Benson, are also served subpoenas: the defense intends to cast doubt on their handling of the investigation and make it seem as though there could be a cover-up since Fin and his son are so closely involved. Also, Casey needs to be careful how she questions her witnesses, because she cannot bring up even the idea of Stevie's murder in any way. During the trial the defense brings up sloppy evidence handling on Fin's part in a case he worked, Stabler making a DUI charge on his daughter disappear, and Benson helping her half-brother evade an FBI investigation (he was absolved eventually, but had been charged at the time and jumped bail). The detectives discover Darius' lawyer has been getting such information from a contact in the force, an old rival of their Captain Cragen that is trying to discredit him by making him look like he's allowed his detectives to operate corruptly. With the investigation's authenticity in doubt, they convince Theresa to testify to try and prove Darius had motive to kill a woman he thought was a bad mother.

On the stand, Theresa tells of how Darius was drunk and infuriated during her mother's funeral, which was two days before Nina's murder, and she suspected her mother had told Darius the truth. Darius questions Theresa himself and brings up times she threatened to have Fin beat him if he didn't stay away from her family, and also questions how she never reported the rape that produced him. Darius finally asks who it was that raped her, and Theresa breaks and admits it was her father, and she tearfully apologizes for how she's treated Darius. Darius accuses her of lying, having lied so much she doesn't know the truth anymore, and stands down. The jury finds Darius not guilty and he is set free, but both Ken and Fin disown him and walk away.

Is he magnificent?

Darius discretely influences the investigation into his crimes before he's even approached by a detective, by confessing as he did to Ken and getting things moving. When meeting with the detectives he acts like friendly, reformed criminals, then like he's guilty and remorseful for his crime, but in reality he feels no remorse at all. He confesses to the crime to the face of the detectives and leads them to Nina's body, and in doing so exploits a legal technicality to ensure they can't use these as evidence against him, preventing them from prosecuting him for the murder of infant Stevie and getting what would be damming evidence in any other case completely inadmissible, forcing the prosecution to rely only on crime scene evidence to try and put him away for Nina's murder. They fail, and Darius literally gets away with murder.

It's not fully clear if Darius, his attorney, or the rival of Captain Cragen, are the ones who arranged the latter feeding the former two information on the misdeeds of the detectives, but it is heavily implied that the rival approached them, since he says he's intending to retire and wanted to ruin Cragen on his way out. Darius and his attorney used the information to smear the names of Cragen's top two detectives and cause a ton of Internal Affairs problems for the entire squadron that could cost many of them their careers. The information on Fin is a story Darius heard from Ken about when he found a gun in Fin's car and Fin screamed at him for it - Ken claims he told Darius the story ten years ago, and Darius seems to have remembered it and found a way to use it against Fin after all this time. As the trial begins Darius attempts to feign illness to avoid appearing in person, a psychological tactic so the jury will not physically see the accused, but Casey knows this is what he's getting at and refuses to waive the need for him to appear in person.

He arranges for himself to be arrested for a crime he did commit, refuses a plea bargain to ensure it will go to trial, and then airs out all the dirty laundry he has for all the media to see. Throughout the process, while often being visibly angry or otherwise emotional, Darius remains composed and collected overall. He loses his cool once, when Theresa finally admits her rapist was her father - Darius furiously screams at her that she's lying, twice, but after a few moments he regains his composure and insults his mother once more before returning to his seat. All that Darius does is revenge on the family that did nothing for him and cast him out, and force his mother to reveal the truth of their Big, Screwed-Up Family to him and the world, and he does this by forcing Theresa to testify and personally questioning her while she's under oath.

Is he a bastard? Too much?

Darius raped a woman with a knife and killed her with multiple stab wounds, and buried a 14-month old child alive. On the other hand, this is Law & Order, and Darius is far from the worst criminal SVU has featured, which includes serial killers, serial rapists and child molesters, etc.

Darius' murder of Nina was not pre-meditated, he lost his knife (a gift from his girlfriend with high sentimental and monetary value) at her apartment and broke in to get it back, since his girlfriend told him Nina had found it and told her she was keeping it. Prior to this Darius was known to hate her and considered her a bad mother (Nina cheated on her husband, was an alcoholic, and often went out to party with friends), which is the main reason he killed her. His murder of her child was out of a twisted sympathy for the boy - the detectives suspect, and Darius all but confirms himself, that he felt he was sparing the child a life of hardship and misery growing up in a broken family, the kind of life Darius himself had to endure. The detectives ponder why Darius' original story to Ken omitted the murder of Stevie and suggested he feels particularly guilty about it, but it isn't certain why beyond speculation: all things considered, it may have been a purposeful omission to muddy the waters, since Darius was gaming the case from the start.

Darius initially refuses to tell the detectives who his girlfriend that babysat for Nina was because he doesn't want to get her involved. It is not clear if he is sincere in this or not, but she spoke well of him in the present and got a valuable gift for him, so he surely treated her well enough. Ken claims Darius "wasn't really into her, but he liked the way she treated him." He was also close to Ken growing up when he and Ken thought they were cousins, and ironically they were as close as brothers, with Ken confiding in Darius about his family problems, and coming out to him as gay before he told his father.

Conclusion

Darius Parker is declared not guilty of a crime he confessed to committing to the face of detectives, and lets himself be put on trial to expose his family's secrets and shames to the world and finally get answers from the mother that he felt abandoned him.

Edited by DrakeClawfang on Feb 12th 2021 at 2:17:52 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#37652: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:09:42 PM

"Darius raped a woman with a knife and killed her with multiple stab wounds, and buried a 14-month old child alive"

No, absolutely not.

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Gotta love Jaws!
#37654: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:10:26 PM

I'm sorry but regardless of the setting rape is an instant disqualifier unless it's Karmic Rape (and even that's iffy) So [tdown] to Darius.

Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Feb 12th 2021 at 2:10:39 AM

"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#37655: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:10:52 PM

Haaaaaaaard no to the rapist and child killer.

DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#37656: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:13:12 PM

My apologies, I thought the "heinous standard" was judged relative to the work as a whole. Without that curve, then yes, Darius is definitely a no.

I withdraw the EP.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#37657: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:15:29 PM

Yeah, you're fine...I'm willing to entertain things on a curve, but some things are just too bad for someone to be an MB

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#37659: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:31:46 PM

No to Darius.

I'm sorry but regardless of the setting rape is an instant disqualifier unless it's Karmic Rape (and even that's iffy)...

To be fair to Drake, I personally have a hard time reconciling any sort of sexual assault with magnificence, even if it is retaliatory. Yet, if someone were to effortpost a woman who performed genital mutilation on the psychos who raped her, I'd almost certainly say yes.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 12th 2021 at 5:43:41 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#37660: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:33:18 PM

No to Darius. No harm no foul on this one though. A general rule of thumb for this trope is that rapists don't count.

Does anyone else find it funny that the only keeper we have from L&O is from the show explicitly dealing with sex crimes? I get that the guy we got up didn't do anything like that himself but its just... not a work I was expecting our first keeper from the franchise to come from.

STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#37661: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:33:25 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] I totally get that, but that's more what it's like over on the Complete Monster thread - there, the heinous standard is in regards to the work as a whole. This thread works more on an individual basis, and there's a fairly harsh baseline.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Feb 12th 2021 at 5:33:32 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#37662: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:35:42 PM

No to Darius. Far too disgustingly evil.

DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#37663: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:37:32 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah. Given that Criminal Intent is the one that tends to delve into the psychology of the criminals, one would think it's ripe grounds for M Bs. But while I used to watch the show I don't recall anyone who might qualify.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#37664: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:40:55 PM

Darius is a [tdown] for me too. Seen both episodes twice. The last time was more than ten years ago (2008 I think).

He’s far too brutal and damaged. Also, his being acquitted is ultimately a consolation prize in the end instead of him fully achieving his goals. His life is pretty much over to the point that he might as well have been in prison in the end.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#37666: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:41:46 PM

[tup]Viscount. [tdown]Darius. Don't be too upset, one of the all time great near-keepers (Vesper Abbadon) was disqualified by casually mentioning he liked to partake in rape when he was bored. Unless as manyinterests stated it's a particular instance of Karmic Rape (and even then that's very particular), it's a line the thread has decided that you can't really be magnificent past it.

Edited by jjjj2 on Feb 12th 2021 at 5:42:19 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#37667: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:42:19 PM

I am planning on looking into Nicole Wallace from Criminal Intent but I'm really bad about going through my to-do list.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#37669: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:46:52 PM

[up][up]Baaed on what I’ve seen of her, she seems ripe for this.

Also papyru, what about Declan Gage? The one who took her out and pretty much tried to get rid of all Goren’s baggage and trauma for him so he could start over (though Goren clearly didn’t follow through with it)?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 12th 2021 at 2:52:04 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#37670: Feb 12th 2021 at 2:56:10 PM

Actually I just found out that the show is free on Peacock so now I have no excuse for not watching it. Hopefully they both keep.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#37672: Feb 12th 2021 at 3:01:58 PM

@papyru Of Gage’s two appearances, I only ever saw Frame. I’ll watch Blind Spot some point soon though (the CI episode, not the show Blindspot haha).

I gotta see Wallace’s other appearances too besides the two I have.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 12th 2021 at 3:02:45 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#37673: Feb 12th 2021 at 3:34:39 PM

[tdown] to Darius

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#37674: Feb 12th 2021 at 3:43:35 PM

[tdown] Darius.

What's the work?

Over 1,000 years prior, a comet collided with the unnamed planet ushering a long and enduring winter. The survivors, desperate for the light of the sun, harnessed Lens, an energy source they found in the remains of the comet and created Dycroft, a flying city. Eventually, the residents of the flying cities came to dominate those who remained on the surface using a powerful weapon called Belcrant, and the Aeth'er Wars began as a result.

This war informs the background for Tales of Destiny 2, a sequel to Tales of Destiny set 18 years after that. While the exploits of Stahn Aileron and the Swordian Masters are known far and wide, it has begun to fade from the hearts of the people. Taking up the mantle of protagonist is boy named Kyle Dunamis, son of the aforementioned Stahn and Rutee Katrea, Kyle thinks he too is destined to be a great hero. While exploring the ruins of an ancient city near his home, Kyle encounters a mysterious girl named Reala, who emerges from a huge Lens. She announces that she is in search of a hero. In his attempts to become the hero Reala seeks, Kyle's destiny is set in motion.

Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?

Elrane (also spelled Elraine), Holy Woman of the Order of Atamoni, is worshiped as a living manifestation of the goddess Fortuna and casts its glimmer upon the citizens of the world through her miracles. Seeking to make the world "happy" at all costs, Elrane wants to alter history to change the outcome of the Aeth'er Wars in order to give the power of Lens to all people using Dycroft as a distribution system

In her fist appearance, she uses the power of Lens to "cure" citizens of their various ailments, these "miracles" on display for the populace to witness. Kyle, mistaking her pendant for the one belonging to Reala, accuses her of stealing it. Elrane assures the boy the pendant belongs to her but is intrigued that he has found a girl bearing an identical one, knowing for certain this is Reala. Elrane humors Kyle's mistake and acknowledges his kind heart as both he and Loni are formerly introduced to the famed holy woman.

When the group arrives in Heidelberg to meet with King Garr Kelvin, one of the legendary heroes, Elrane is already there for an offering of Lens to spread the blessings of the goddess to all the world. He declines out of suspicion, but on her way out, she notices Kyle specifically while. Should be no coincidence the castle is then attacked by a hoard of monsters and Elrane's general Sabnock. After his defeat, the group returns Garr only to discover him being attacked by her enlisted assassin Barbatos Goetia (NO ITEM EVER!!!!!!!). Elrane soon makes her reappearance after Barbatos vanishes, taunting Reala and the others about taking vengeance upon Garr for failing to hand over his Lens. Elrane leaves with the castle's Lens and hurls the group through time, specifically ten years in the future, where her influence has created a society that looks peaceful, docile, and happy... but at the cost of a lot of free will.

Eventually, the group enter an alternate timeline where the events of the Aeth'er Wars are now reversed. For example, Barbatos is revered as a hero instead of a madman. Without war, disease, or famine, the people live in an ignorant harmony, unaware of actual events, and even the fabricated history of the world has painted Elrane now for real as the messenger of the goddess, providing the world with its Lens.

When confronted at her Temple of Light, Elrane hurls each member of the group into a nightmare of their deepest fears with the intent of shattering their spirits. As each of them break the spell, Elrane questions their resolve to live in a world with such pain, confused as to why they would choose it over unconditional happiness, but the group holds firm to their beliefs and seeks to restore their world and its history. With this in mind, Reala uses her power to teleport the group to the Aeth'er Wars period prior to Elrane's meddling.

In this era, they learn from her general Gaap that Elrane wants to wipe the slate clean. Instead of tampering with history like she's doing, she want to irrevocably displace the old timeline by recreating the comet crash, allowing her to shape reality into the new reality I just laid out. For good. Fortuna, the goddess who descended upon the world via the original comet in an incomplete form, will now be "birthed" again via the new comet as part of Elrane's mission, the new comet being dubbed by Elrane as the "Egg of God."

Within the depths of the Egg of God, the group finds Elrane preparing for Fortuna's birth, where she beckons them for their relentlessness in disrupting the perfect harmony of her new reality and Fortuna's place in it. Refusing to falter, she engages the group in battle but ultimately. She vanishes without a hint of regret in her convictions, but in her place, the goddess descends....

Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligence, etc.)? Why or why not?

For starters, she's got plenty of In-Universe charm befitting a Villain with Good Publicity. Elegant, graceful, and the pinnacle of the Order of Atamoni, Elrane's sermons and dialogue show a determined woman of devout faith who truly believes her ideals and belief in the goddess Fortuna will usher in the best age for mankind. Her waxing of philosophy almost shakes Reala, her foil also connected to Fortuna to the core until Kyle snaps her out of it, and she's certainly got the masses wrapped her finger like obedient pets.

Now... as for the smarts? Admittedly, there's only so much. Elraine, throughout the story, accumulates power and influence by claiming to be able to solve the world's problems through magical means using the Lens. So, in short, she's been playing an entire setting for fools using her miracles and saintly charisma. There's also the minor plan of using Barbatos Goetia to eliminate the current, proven heroes of the world so they can't intervene without any realizing Elraine is the benefactor until much later when it's too late. The protagonists therefore have been largely working to undo what she's already achieved the power and means to do. And to many respects, The Bad Guy Wins, and the plot of the game itself describes a Near-Villain Victory.

Her scene with King Garr also implies she'd rather move her plans forward nonviolently if she can help it. After all, she only let Barbatos and Sabnock do their thing after Garr said no, and she left without any real protest.

That's really all there is on that front. She's got the charm, the charisma, but is there enough applications of her intelligence to put her over the top? You decide. Her number of acts are low but certainly profound.

Bastard? Not too much of one?

Definitely. I mean, I could just end this section of "uses Barbatos Goetia as her personal assassin'' and that'd be enough to clinch the bastard qualifications. Let's go further though. Her whole plan involves creating a "utopia" where everyone gives up their individuality and thoughts in exchange for a content existence, and she feels justified in changing the timeline and slaughtering heroes who might oppose this plan.

While she does have an air self-righteousness in that, as Fortuna's greatest discipline, she feels their will is best for all of humanity, Elrane is at least genuine in her faith. She's a Dark Messiah and (shocker) Well-Intentioned Extremist through and through, wanting to offer salvation to humanity via the manipulation of history, altering the events of the past to better align it with her vision of an ideal world.

Competition?

None.

Conclusion?

If you think there is enough on the smarts there, maybe. If not, no big deal.

Edited by erazor0707 on Feb 12th 2021 at 1:04:29 PM

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters

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