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Now, my last DND deity...I give you: Mask.
'Who is Mask?
the god of thieves, intrigue, shadows and trickery. The Shadowlord. Mask is a genius, a schemer, who seeks to deceive event eh gods over and over. Now, during the time of Troubles? Mask manipulated Cyric by taking the form of a magic sword, manipulating Cyric and those who wielded him, even causing the death of the god Bhaal. Now, when Cyric rose to godhood, Mask helped him kill the goddess of Illusions and take her Portfolio, but Cyric eventually betrayed Mask. Mask helped to put together a plan to defeat and banish Cyric, even releasing a primordial beast known as the Chaos Hound to destroy him...unfortunately the Chaos Hound went after Mask until he managed to get a sword to keep it at bay. He took a bit of a hit here, but it's really in the Erevis Cale series where we see how crazy magnificent Mask is.He also imprisoned the soul of Kelemvor Lionsbane, a human enemy of Cyric before their godhood to use against Cyric later, resulting in Kelemvor becoming the god of Death after Cyric was overthrown.
Now, Mask is the god of crazy plotting....but more than anything, Mask opposes his mother, Shar, the goddess of night and nothingness. While he's hardly heroic, Mask is against Shar's schemes to return everything to nothing. Mask left slivers of his divinity to his Chosen. The first, Kesson Rel, turned evil and joined Shar. But Mask selected two other Chosen: Erevis Cale and the assassin Drasek Riven, guiding them to defeat great threats and empowering them. Mask spread the pieces of his divinity, while stopping Shar's evil plots and resulting in Erevis Cale killing Kesson Rel. Mask was then confronted by Shar who proceeded to absorb his life and power...however, Mask planned ahead. Seeking to stop Shar again and to return? Erevis Cale was killed by the devil Mephistopheles who took a portion of Mask's divinity (only to try to usurp Asmodeus and then found out Asmodeus had become a full god. Asmodeus rules, have we mentioned this?) But Mask used the last of his power to send Cale's pregnant lover to the future to save his son from Shar...relying on a complex gambit to restore Cale to life and have the pieces of his wayward divinity brought back together and restoring him to life, merging with Riven and returning to life where he remains the god of scheming and intrigue.
Is he charming? Charismatic? A good schemer?
He's the god of schemers and runs some amazing gambit. Now, Mask can be very, very charming and charismatic when he's a mind to. He's disarming, pleasant and very, very persuasive as he's the God of Thieves. He knows he's going to die, but still screws his crazy mom over and provides a path for his return while taking care of his most loyal followers.
Is he a bastard? Too much?
Well, he's evil. He's the god of thieves. He helped Cyric murder a goddess and cover it up just because, well...intrigue. He disguised himself as a murderous sword, he's far, far, FAR from a good guy. He's allied with evil gods plenty to get stuff done.
However, Mask is kind of A Lighter Shade of Black. He loves his faithful and is exceptionally proud of them in his personal heaven which is a land of endless scheming and thieving (gleefully saying that when he has guests, some of his faithful are probably plotting on how to slit their throats right there). He really cares for his Chosen and he doesn't want the world destroyed. He heads off Shar, and he rewards the loyalty of his followers, really looking out for Erevis and the other Chosen, even if there's a bit of self-serving stuff in the bargain there.
Second masked god to count in FR.
Yeah to a masked guy named mask
@Satoshi Bakura sure.
So. I guess that now I do Krishna' entry. I'm actually happy for this, he is certainly one of the best Shin Megami Tensei villains due to his wits and charisma. Evil Is Cool in a nice Hindu touch.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 9th 2018 at 5:03:59 AM
to Mask and Vheraun
to the DND baddies
Vhaeraun and Mask
I reserved The Banner Saga 3. No one in that game (or the Banner Saga Trilogy for that matter) counts.
Given that he does have enough . Here it is, Our Salvation!!!.
The order would be Krishna' first (Big Bad of 3/4 of the game) and then Stephen (show his amorality in a late part of the game in one single route)
Also. Both Peace and Bonds are the same route. Is just a Fan Nickname for it, although Bonds is more used now. We should change that detail or not?
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 9th 2018 at 6:51:08 AM
@Eddy 1215: D.A.V.E fell more on the Smug Snake side due to his arrogance about being "Gotham's Ultimate Criminal Mastermind" and the Freak Out! he had when Batman Out-Gambitted him by getting him to try to recall his own origin story (which he didn't have since he was just someone else's creation). If anyone on that show would be a Magnificent Bastard, it'd be Hugo Strange, the guy behind D.A.V.E. And unlike the Joker, it took Strange 'til the series finale for his Complete Monster status to be cemented, so his bastardry didn't overshadow his magnificence too much.
One I'm now struggling with, honestly? Illidan Stormrage.
EP him anyway. For what I know of him, he certainly seems smart enough. Dunno about charming because I never got in Warcraft.
Also. In hindsight, IVA!Krishna is one of our Unintentionally Sympathetic guys. He come off as less demeaning than Big Good Danu or your own Pre-Character Development party members like Nozomi or Gaston while also being more altruist than Villain Protagonist Dagda and Nanashi in the Massacre route but the story seems to want to make Krishna look as a Smug Super Screw You, Elves! (thus stuff as him doing that silly face before dying after getting his dreams destroyed), which fails due to him being one of the most polite characters in the game.
Weird to think about it.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 9th 2018 at 7:04:40 AM
Alright time for an EP on Joshua.
Who is Joshua?
Joshua is Neku Sakuraba's second partner in The World Ends With You. At first he seems like a regular 15 year old kid who can see dead people (The Reaper's Game that Neku is a part of is a game played by young people in the Shibuya District of Tokyo, basically its a game devised by the "Composer" as a way to give everyone who has died another chance at living. There are six types of people who play The Game. Players, who have to fight to avoid erasure by the Reapers who aim to erase the Players and Reapers earn points for every player that they erase. There's also the Game Master who acts as a proxy for the Conductor and assign the missions that the Players must complete. The Conductor is the second in command of the Reapers and by extension the Big Bad. Then we have the Composer who gives orders on how the game should be run to the Conductor, in a sense the Composer cannot be killed unless they are fought on a different plane of existence hence why they cannot be killed in the RG (real ground) and the plane of the Living, or the UG, the plane of the deceased. There are also Angels who watch the Game to ensure everyone plays by the rules, but seeing as how we only meet one Angel, that's a topic for another day.)
But in reality it's a game between the Composer and Conductor to determine the fate of both the RG and UG. The Conductor is known as Megumi Kitaniji who has the Game Master picked from Reapers with the highest points. Anyway, the Composer selected Neku to be his proxy in the game, and by the end of the game and through a series of flashbacks we find that Joshua has killed Neku in the RG to be his Proxy. Indeed, Joshua (who is Really 700 Years Old) is the Composer who set up the game to determine if Shibuya should be erased or not. So basically the entire game's events were set up by Joshua.
Anyway, Joshua starts out incredibly prickly very similar to Neku in the first week of the Game, thinking of people as monotonous and incapable of change. As Neku shows him his resolve and extended worldview he learned from CAT, he slowly begins to trust Neku all while Neku thinks of Josh as an Obvious Judas in that he thinks he's reporting to the Reapers he finds he is actually talking to Sanae Hanekoma, the designer CAT and a Fallen Angel. And also the guy who got Neku to open up in the first place.
Considering he was able to get Neku to trust him before taking a Level i Flare from Game Master Sho Minamimoto to the face forcing him to retreat to the RG of another alternate dimension. I would say yes. While he does have moments of being an extreme jerk to Neku it is because of his warped view on how the people of Shibuya are. He's snarky but also helpful. The fact he was able to mess with Neku's memory to make him think Minamimoto killed him instead of Joshua himself. He has plenty of people who think he's a nice guy with Neku being the only person he's rude to. He's a tad smug but not enough to be a smug snake. He also flirts with Neku which is a little creepy since he's several hundred years old while Neku is only 15, and Joshua only takes on the appearance of a 15 year old boy.
Regardless despite Josh being kind of a jerk he's still a benevolent boss to the Conductor who is a graceful loser and says "It has been an honor, Sir!" before he was erased and defeated Taboo Noise Minamimoto with relative ease (though its shown he survived showing that he does have a moral code, even with someone as crazy as Sho). He's both Faux Affably Evil and Affably Evil.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Absolutely he's a bastard. Being the composer he likes to gamble with people's lives out of sheer boredom and He hates humanity, shoots Neku twice once in the RG and once again in the UG when he made up a new game where the winner gets to be composer, he also berates Neku for a bad performance on a regular basis and yet, Neku refuses to shoot and because of this decision he decides to give the players Neku, Shiki, Beat and even Rhyme a second chance at life showing he has a soft side and doesn't erase Shibuya. Neku monologues on how while he wasn't a very nice person he trusts him and without him and Hanekoma Shibuya would have been a Hive Mind or erased. He presumably also revived the players who didn't make it as Rhyme was erased and she's back for the end.
Neku and his friends essentially restored his faith in humanity. So I'd say that's a pass.
Is he magnificent?
Indeed he is. With a backup plan in motion for every single one of his plans to win his own game through Neku by convincing Hanekoma to protect Neku (he would have anyway), telling Beat and Neku how to beat Game Master Konishi through mail, and even having Neku almost screwed by the Reapers Kariya and Uzuki just so Beat will give up being a reaper and join Neku as his new partner as well as releasing Shiki from Kitaniji's clutches so she can help. But he's also smiling as he fuses with Kitaniji's Noise form, kills the only person he thought would share his viewpoint on humanity so he could win.
It's up to you guys.
I actually have a hesitation on Krishna - while he does expertly game Merkabah and Lucifer (and the main characters), he himself is getting hosed by Dagda, who lets Krishna's plan get just as far as Dagda needs it to get to further his own, then has Nanashi put him down before it gets a second further.
Yes to everything else but switching back to a nay on Krishna, having just talked this over with HT. Not quite sure why the EP didn't mention this about Dagda playing him but lets cover a bit more ground for a fairer look at candidates we propose.
Nay to Krishna, if that's the case.
I'm going to say "yes" to Joshua for now. From what I remember, Joshua's kind of an insufferable arse at the best of times, but he never goes too far and he's got some good traits to balance it out, and he's certainly a proficient enough manipulator.
Edited by Scraggle on Aug 9th 2018 at 10:58:25 AM
I ought to do an anti-EP for a character that I did a CM EP for a while back: The SQUIP.
Be More Chill is a Cult Classic musical written by Joe Iconis, set in an ordinary high school. It stars two students: Jeremy Heere, and Michael Mell. Jeremy is an anxious, awkward student whose only intent is to get through high school. To this end, Jeremy takes up a classmate on a suggestion to, essentially, get a chill pill.
Who is the SQUIP?
The SQUIP is said chill pill. A Japanese supercomputer with a high-level intellect, a suave demeanor, and a sense of what is good in social environments, the SQUIP seems, by all counts, to be exactly what Jeremy needs. However, as he quickly learns, the SQUIP is a sociopath with a plan to Take Over the World.
Is he charismatic?
Absolutely. Between his attractiveness, cool voice, mannerisms, and social sense, the SQUIP is charming, even at his worst. He claims to want the best for Jeremy, and even though he is somewhat rude, he does succeed in making sure Jeremy has a proper social life. He manipulates Jeremy effortlessly and manages to drive a wedge between Jeremy and Michael. (Michael, as a nostalgic teen, has Mountain Dew Red, the only thing capable of killing him. BMC is odd, to say the least.)
Can he think on his feet?
Absolutely. The SQUIP charms everyone he meets, through manipulating Jeremy, and manages to infect most of the student body with himself. By exacerbating many of their personality traits, he essentially possesses them. He's quite quick to use this ability on much of the student body, between Jeremy, Rich, and countless other, minor students. He wisely stays far away from Michael, and escalates the scale of the story from a simple high school tale to a mission to save the world. He plays on a completely separate playing field from the otherwise small-scale show and cast.
Is he evil? Is he too evil?
Too evil. Easily the reason he doesn't fit. The SQUIP has most things down, but his sadistic streak is what rips him away from this trope. Between averting Double Standard: Rape, Sci-Fi with Jeremy and a drunk girl at a party, (They are, thankfully, interrupted) his excessive bullying and torment of Jeremy early on, and his willingness to offer Jeremy's dream girl as what amounts to a Sex Slave, he easily marks himself as a monster. His charisma is merely a facade for a cold, psychopathic monster. While he is certainly charismatic, and claims it's all for Jeremy's good, it's obvious that the SQUIP is self-centered and doesn't care about Jeremy's good.
A near miss considering his charisma and planning, but the SQUIP's excessive cruelty marks him as too evil.
I saw that D.A.V.E. from The Batman has been discussed. I wonder who's doing an EP for Hugo Strange (The Batman) since he is D.A.V.E. creator.
Joshua. As I've done multiple Wallander CM Proposals, I'm going to do some MB examples as well. Here we go.
What is the Work?
Wallander is a Swedish crime-thriller series following the titular Ystad detective Kurt Wallander, which has gotten multiple adaptations throughout the years. However, todays candidate is from the 2004-2015 series, which is by far the most lighthearted adaptation, with Kurt being a happy man with a Big Fancy House and a cute dog named Jussi. The episode is the film adaptation introducing season 2, "The Revenge", with multiple killings happening to controversial but loved figures and horrible terrorist attacks happening, the dread is huge and everyone is terrified, and the rumoured motive is even worse; the attacks are racially motivated by Islamic terrorists who are being kicked out of the country and want to show revenge.
Turns out it's a much more dangerous type of revenge. Meet Anders Lindström.
Who is he? What does he do?
Anders Lindström is a high-ranking, corrupt military general who had a son years ago, at the start of his career. When his son got fatally sick, Lindström payed lots and lots of money to get him cured, but the nurses and other workers were too lazy and didn't show much ambition on curing the poor boy, all while the nurses promised Anders that his son would come out alive sooner or later. They lied however, and as he stepped in to see his son, he watched in horror as he saw him slowly die and his life being ruined, causing him to feel he needed to punish the people who ruined his and his son's life.
Starting out by blowing up the only substation in the city of Ystad, the electricity goes out for days, which allows Anders to cause the attacks he wants. He blows up multiple cars, which at first looks like a maniac doing completely random attacks, but Anders is specifically choosing cars of those who were involved in his son's death. Moving on to go on a killing spree, Anders targets the nurses who were there, and a controversial man known for having multiple drawings of Mohammad (as in the Muslim equivalent of Jesus) in his house, for two reasons; he was involved in the death of his son, obviously, but also because it would be believed by the police that the killings are racially motivated.
When the Swedish Minister of Defence is holding a speech in Ystad due to the recent attacks, Anders, who is supposed to guard her, instantly realizes that the police is aware of him and that he could very well be arrested, he steps up, handcuffs the minister, and holds her hostage. Wallander bravely confronts him and tells him to change hostage. Anders respects Wallander for being so brave, and accepts his offer. Anders takes Wallander into his car, and drives him to the sea, where he prepares to blow himself up. After a respectful talk with each other, Anders eventually lets Wallander go out of the car and spares him, before the cop Svartman pushes Anders car into the water along with him, as the bomb goes off and Wallander looks sadly at the explosion.
Is he Charismatic?
Definitely. Anders is the epitome of Affably Evil, showing respect for Wallander and pretending to be a completely normal person for the entire film, and manipulating everyone who comes in contact with him.
Is he Intelligent?
It's one thing to be an affable mass murderer. It's another thing to manipulate the entire country into believing the opposite of what is really going on.
Well duh, his entire motivation comes from wanting to avenge his beloved son. Also his respect for Wallander and the fact that he dies a very sympathetic death.
Is he a bastard? Too much of a bastard?
Anders is definitely a bastard. He's Affably Evil, but he's not one of those villains who are completely normal who happen to be killers who instantly show remorse, no no, he is never remorseful and is constantly intimidating, and the fact that he is willing to spread terror all over the country just to complete his goal firmly puts him in the 'evil' territory. But he isn't too much of a bastard, he has his standards and lots of honor.
Joshua and Anders
Edited by lrrose on Aug 10th 2018 at 7:15:10 AM
Joshua and Anders
Yes to Joshua and Anders.
I have a pair now from an old fantasy anime:
What's the work?
Record of Lodoss War was based on a series of novels from the 1980s and were a rather seminal and influential series. The plot takes place on Odoss Island, a continent unto itself known as 'The Cursed Island' for its history. The hero is a young would-be knight named Parn who joins an adventuring party that ends up traveling to recover a great deal, while the Holy Kingdom of Valis and the dark Empire of Marmo are on the brink of war. And our MB? an ancient sorceress...the Grey Witch, Karla.
Who is Karla?
Karla is ancient. A powerful sorceress who achieved immortality by implanting her consciousness in a magic circlet she wears. Incredibly powerful, Karla's main concern is the balance of the world, and she seeks to keep it from growing too close to either light or darkness. Decades before the series, a group of heroes stopped the monstrous demon king from destroying the world....Karla was one of them, but now? Karla fears he balance has swung too far in the favor of light. The Grey Witch is a name given to her for her utter neutrality.
Long, long ago, Karla was a member of the kingdom of Katsuul, who foresaw its destruction. Karla sealed her consciousness in a circlet and it took over the body of the barbarian warrior who murdered her. Due to her homeland's destruction, Karla vowed to never allow such a thing again, no matter what....for 500 years Karla manipulates entire wars when she feels one kingdom is growing too strong, with almost every conflict of Lodoss engineered by her. Karla, now possessing the body of her old comrade Neese's daughter Leylia, is the guide of the Marmo Emperor Beld, pushing him to all out war and manipulating everything behind the scenes. Now, Beld and the king of Valis, Fahn, are both members of the Six Heroes as well, and Karla knows them very well...so she pushes them to a war to weaken both sides, ending with Beld and Fahn agreeing to a duel. Beld wins the fight, but one of Fahn's allies, King Kashue, steps up to duel Beld in his stead. Karla? Fires an arrow at the right moment to critically wound Beld, resulting in his death in the duel. Both sides are forced to withdraw.
Karla is found by the heroes now, and defeated...however, her influence, once pulled from Leylia? She pushes a thief named Woodchuck to take up her Circlet and possesses him, going on the run. Rebuilding her plans, with the good guys triumphing, Karla joins forces with the evil wizard Wagnard who plans to unleash the goddess of destruction Kardis. Karla slowly manipulates all sides again, with a new group of heroes led by the young knight in training Spark moving to stop her, as Wagnard is using the granddaughter of Neese and Leylia's daughter Neese Jr as the vessel for Kardis. Karla offers the heroes a choice: offer her their lives and she'll stop Kardis from coming. Otherwise, she'll help Kardis's resurrection and later help a new group stop her after the balance is swung too far in favor of darkness. The heroes refuse and in a last fight Wagnard is indeed destroyed and Karla is defeated not by killing her host, but by her Circlet struck off her body. With Kardis defeated, Leylia herself takes the circlet, holding it safely and neutralizing it...Karla is defeated at last and sealed off that way for good and all.
Is she charming? Charismatic? A good planner?
Karla has centuries of manipulations under her belt. Literally every war in Lodoss has been started or guided by her for her goals. She's exceptionally charismatic, and while she's not exactly warm, she's very charismatic no matter what body she's in. Karla always has a contingency and her plans ensure that even if you kill her, you become her and she gets your body. She manipulates all of Valid and Marmo to her ends and Wagnard as well. Easy pass here.
Is she a bastard? Too much?
Karla is an interesting example as she's ultimately a neutral character taken to extremes. Karla desires to preserve a balance to prevent anything like what happened to her homeland. But her main way of existing is Grand Theft Me and bodyjacking people to preserve herself with her circlet. She orchestrates or guides wars to take powers down a peg, good or evil. However, she was one of the Six Heroes who stopped the demon king to save the world because she does care about it. She planned to kill the winner of the Fahn/Beld fight, whoever it may have been and while she threatens to help bring Kardis, it's because she feels the balance has swung too far in favor of the light. Ultimately, Karla does have good intentions, even if her acitons are wrong.
Yes to the Grey Witch.
to Karla. And fun fact that no one counts as a MB in Ryo Mizuno's other Light Novel, Grancrest Senki... Mainly because most of the villains are pretty much idiots (Looking at you Marrine) or some of their crimes didn't sit well for me to be on this trope (Looking at the head mage that appears at the last episodes). But I probably could be wrong.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Aug 10th 2018 at 8:52:12 PM
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