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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3451: Aug 6th 2018 at 3:06:34 PM

Well, in the manga, Dark bakura is a piece of Zorc Necrophades, whereas in the anime he's the resurrected Thief King, IIRC. If you want to do the posts, though, Drake go for it.

Going to write up Varrick and the others, btw?

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3452: Aug 6th 2018 at 3:24:41 PM

[up] Anime Bakura is Zorc as well, and it's more definite (since manga Bakura is both Zorc and Thief King). In any case, Bakura is too pointlessly dickish to count.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#3453: Aug 6th 2018 at 3:25:57 PM

I'm entirely in favor of cutting Marcus, by the by. I think a few there are contestable but Marcus in particular never operated with the true level or charisma for me.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3454: Aug 6th 2018 at 3:51:04 PM

Pokemon really ain't my area of expertise and I'm seeing fair points on both sides, so I'll bow out of this one and happily take whichever decision the thread lands upon.

@ Drake, Go for it on whomever you think you can sell a case on.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#3455: Aug 6th 2018 at 3:56:15 PM

[up][up] My thoughts exactly. The only others on that page I'm not 100% sure of would be Greevil (who never stood out to me), Butler (whose success at his schemes went horribly wrong in a way akin to how Archie and Maxie's plans backfire), and Darkrai (being a Complete Monster, shouldn't he fall into the "too much of an evil bastard" category?), but Marcus is the only one I felt was a solid "no".

Both versions of Giovanni, both versions of Colress, Cyrus (in Platinum at least), and Dusknoir are legit keepers, though. [awesome]

Edited by ANewMan on Aug 6th 2018 at 3:55:55 AM

DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#3456: Aug 6th 2018 at 4:06:08 PM

Fair point on Bakura being too much of a bastard. As for Rex...

What is the work?

The work is Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's, the third installment in the Yu-Gi-Oh franchise.

In the world of 5Ds, the Nazca Lines are glyphs left behind by a group of ancient monsters called the Earthbound Gods, who served the King of the Netherworld. They were sealed beneath Nazca by an ancient deity, the Crimson Dragon, and its servants, the Signers. The Signers are a group of five humans who bear birthmarks of the Crimson Dragon's body parts on their arms and command powerful dragons, Signer Dragons, in its name. In turn, the Earthbound Gods can choose Dark Signers to bear their marks and invoke their powers, choosing persons near death who have a strong will to live.

According to legend, every 5000 years the seal on the Earthbound Gods would weaken and the battle between the servants of the Crimson Dragon and the King of the Netherworld would occur again. This information was carried through the ages by the secret society Iliaster.

Who is the character?

The character is Rex Godwin, Director of Sector Security in Neo Domino City and a high-ranking member of Iliaster.

What does he do?

Rex and his brother Roman were lab assistants working with Dr. Fudo on a revolutionary new energy type, Momentum, powered by the energy released by Dueling. Roman became head of the project when Dr. Fudo began to have doubts over its safety, but Roman came under the influence of the Earthbound Gods. Dr. Fudo gave Rex three of the Signer Dragon cards, which could shut down the reactor if necessary. Roman meanwhile fought against the power of the Earthbound Gods and amputated his arm, which bore his Signer mark. He sealed it in a capsule and gave it to Rex to protect the power of the Signers, and then overloaded the Momentum reactor. This caused a cataclysmic earthquake that separated the area around the reactor from the mainland, and it drifted to become an off-shore island called Satellite. The ruins of the city on the island became a slum and abandoned by the city.

Rex began building a bridge to escape Satellite, but he was confronted by the city's Security forces. To escape he drove his motorcycle off the incomplete bridge, and though he survived and made it to the mainland, he lost his arm in the accident and acquired a robotic prosthetic. At Neo Domino Rex refined Momentum technology to a more stable and safe state, and its use transformed the city into a technological haven. Rex became head of Security, making him effective ruler of the city, and he joined Iliaster and learned more about the Earthbound Gods and the Crimson Dragon, including that the original Momentum reactor would be the gateway to the Netherworld when the Signer and Dark Signers clashed soon. He released the Signer Dragon cards to the public, trusting that they would eventually make their way to their Signer and reveal their identities.

Rex identified a Satellite resident, Jack Atlas, as a Signer wielding Red Dragon Archfiend, and had him steal his friend Yusei's motorcycle and Stardust Dragon card (another Signer Dragon) in return for a new life in Neo Domino. Jack accepted and became Godwin's protégé as a professional duelist, and Godwin used Jack as a propaganda tool and discretely bribed duelists to throw matches to him to bolster his reputation. Two years later, Yusei came to Neo Domino and challenged Jack, and during the duel their mutual status as Signers was confirmed and Yusei took back Stardust Dragon. Knowing the two had a vision of the Crimson Dragon during the duel, Godwin revealed select facts about the Signers to Jack, but not the whole truth.

Yusei is arrested for trespassing, but Rex has him released in order to compete in an upcoming tournament, the Fortune Cup, where the winner will face Jack. The tournament is secretly a ruse to confirm the identities of suspected Signers, and includes suspects Aki Izayoi and Luna. To aid in this, Rex has "duel assassins" enter with the orders to push suspected Signers to their limits, and has his scientist rig the duel arena with a sensor that causes pain to a Signer when Duel energy is released. The tournament comes to a head when Yusei faces Jack again, and Rex invokes the power of Roman's Signer mark to show the other four a vision of the battle between the Crimson Dragon and the Earthbound Gods, and Neo Domino being destroyed. The duel ends with Yusei's victory and the vision fades; the crowd did not see what happend, but Rex covers that there was a glitch in the display system, but confirms that Yusei beat Jack.

Rex met with Yusei and explained that the Momentum reactor's destruction created a massive amount of negative energy, and it would be the gateway to the Netherworld when the Earthbound Gods attacked. The Earthbound Gods begin choosing their Dark Signers, who are led by Roman, killed by the Momentum explosion and reborn as the Dark Signer of the Spider. Rex brings the Signers to his home and shows them an ancient temple under his mansion, and tells them they must defeat the Dark Signers and seal the control unit for the reactor before the sun sets, or the gate to the Netherworld will open. While the Signers face the other Dark Signers, Rex travels to Satellite himself and faces Roman. He loses, but as he collapses Roman notices several cards in his hand that could have saved him. Rex admits he lost on purpose, he knows Yusei and the Signers will prevail, but this battle will repeat 5000 years later. He has his own plans to change the outcome and stop the cycle. Rex dies, and due to his powerful will is reborn as the Dark Signer of the Condor.

Rex returns to the temple beneath his mansion and retrieves Roman's arm with his Signer mark. As the Signers could not seal the reactor in time, the gate to the Netherworld opens and the King of the Netherworld begins advancing on the city. The Crimson Dragon takes the Signers to the temple, where Rex reveals he has become a Dark Signer. He discards his prosthetic arm and grafts Roman's amputated arm in its place, bearing Roman's Signer mark, and summons the other Signer marks to him. With the Mark of the Dragon on his chest, and the Mark of the Condor on his back, Rex reveals he plans to wield the power of the two deities to destroy the world and remake it in his image, without Signers or Dark Signers to wage endless war through the ages. He challenges Yusei to a duel, declaring the will be a ritual for this endeavor and Yusei his sacrifice.

During the duel the bonds of Yusei and his friends surpass Rex's will to remake the world, causing the Signer marks to leave him, and Rex is defeated and the King of the Netherworld is sealed again. The Dark Signers are given a chance to be reborn properly, but Rex and Roman choose to depart to the afterlife as atonement for their crimes.

Is he a bastard?

Rex deliberately turns Satellite into a neglected slum in the name of keeping the area contained and minimize damage done by the Dark Signers when they take control of it. To this end he also stokes the city's prejudice against the citizens of Satellite to keep them from visiting and keep the island isolated. He manipulates the Signers against each other to awaken their powers and discretely tortures them or places them in perilous situations to hasten their awakening. He brings Jack under his wing by turning him against his best friend Yusei, then uses Jack as a propaganda tool to control Domino. Finally, he planned to destroy the world and remake it in his image, which stretches the Well-Intentioned Extremist bit way to the far end of Extremism.

Is he magnificent?

To the public eye, and to the Signers (at first), Rex is the calm, polite, reasonable head of Security. The Signers initially regard him as an uneasy ally and he provides them aid several times, the group not suspecting his true motives. Throughout his dealings with the Signers before becoming a Dark Signer, Rex is always unfailingly polite and professional, even as he lies to them to manipulate them. His position as head of Sector Security affords him power over Domino, which he uses to constantly monitor the city to track down potential Signers and then to observe their duels with the Dark Signers. Rex's position means he spends a lot of time under public scrutiny, yet he has hidden his origins in Satellite and done the same for Jack, and plays the media carefully to avoid detection of his ulterior plots.

Rex initially receives instructions from Roman on how to handle the Signer-Dark Signer conflict, but hijacks the plan to make his own play for power. When Leo impersonates Luna and prevents Rex from confirming she's a Signer, Rex notices Luna in pain in the audience and realizes they switched places, and arranges a back-up duel for her instead. It is also a bit implied he set up the tournament with specific intent to pit the Signers against the proper opponents to force their awakening, and on at least one occasion he asks one of his duel assassins to lose his duel on purpose, so he can be the opponent for Luna in the consolation duel. Rex duels Roman and throws the game so he can lose, die, and be reborn as a Dark Signer to continue his plans.

Conclusion

Rex Godwin manipulates both the Signers and the Dark Signers to acquire the power of both groups and turn himself into a Yin-Yang Bomb, and almost acquires the power to destroy and remake the world in his own image.

Edited by DrakeClawfang on Aug 23rd 2024 at 3:11:07 AM

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3457: Aug 6th 2018 at 4:09:07 PM

[tup] Rex and everyone else I missed.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#3458: Aug 6th 2018 at 4:13:21 PM

[tup] Rex Goodwin.

However, I don't think Yami Bakura is too needlessly dickish to qualify. But maybe that's just 'cause we've got Yami Marik, who epitomizes needless dickishness, existing in comparison. tongue

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#3460: Aug 6th 2018 at 4:35:02 PM

[tup]Sidney, Zakalwe, Blondie, Rex.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#3461: Aug 6th 2018 at 5:07:51 PM

Rex gets my vote for sure.

So can I just cut the other AA examples sans Gant since we're all in agreement the majority are either too bastardly, Smug, or sympathetic to qualify can I cut those other examples from the page?

Edited by Klavice on Aug 6th 2018 at 5:16:07 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#3462: Aug 6th 2018 at 5:24:15 PM

[tup]Sid, Zak, Blondie, Rex.

Any plans for a never again list Mr. 4?

IPP Wick Check created.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3463: Aug 6th 2018 at 5:50:11 PM

Yea to Rex and as for the Never Again list I still dread the day it becomes a necessity but let’s wait until after the fact before getting one done up.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#3464: Aug 6th 2018 at 7:13:51 PM

Alright so I removed the other examples of MB from AA aside from Redd White (who I'm positive doesn't count due to being a Smug Snake) and Gant I haven't checked many of the non trilogy pages so I don't know if Kristoph, Phantom, Keyes, etc are still there.

Edited by Klavice on Aug 6th 2018 at 7:16:36 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3465: Aug 6th 2018 at 7:46:22 PM

One more for tonight!

What's the work?

Reboot was the first cartoon to be fully computer animated. The world is a computer. Welcome to Mainframe,a city in cyberspace, and the various "programs" (people) that liv within. The system administrator is a wise program named Phong who maintains order with the help of the hero...Bob, a Guardian who defends the city. And there is one chief villain he defends it from. Who is that? Well...enter...Megabyte.

Who is Megabyte?

A massive beast of a virus, Megabyte is voiced beautifully by the amazing Tony Jay. Now, as a virus, Megabyte intends to infect and take over Mainframe and proceed to more of the world. However, s imposing as Megabyte is, what sets him apart is his suave sophistication. Megabyte was broguht to the city by the genius inventor Wilhelm Matrix, as 'Gigabyte'...Gigabyte was split in two, to Megabyte and his sister, the insane virus Hexadecimal, his rival and enemy. Megabyte fooled his sister into an alliance, solely to get her stock of powerful viral weapons. Now, Megabyte showcases himself as a ruthless and brilliant enemy...a lot, constantly performing gambits that actually work, and allow him to take over the main office of Mainframe, even though Bob drives him off. Megabyte keeps performing intelligent moves all across season 1, nearly draining Mainframe of energy at one point. Now, in season 2? Things get darker. A path to the world wide web is opened and a monster called the Web Creature infects Megabyte, causing him to merge again with Hex. After being split up, Megabyte is noticeably more vicious than before, but still very, very calculating and intelligent.

Now, the Web itself is opened, leading to an invasion of Mainframe. Megabyte teams up with Bob, saves the city...and promptly betrays Bob, sending him into the Web and taking the city over. Megabyte defeats Hex, takes over the city and discredits its new guardian, the kid brother of Bob's love interest Dot. Enzo briefly traps Megabyte behind a firewall, but Megabyte gets free, takes over the city and makes it his, winning even while Dot wages a rebellion while Enzo and his love interest Andrala are lost in the west through gaming...growing to adulthood there until they can return to Mainframe. Realizing Mainframe is dying, Megabyte opts to use the chief system odes to abandon the system and move on to control new ones, as Enzo, now known as Matrix arrives...an epic battle ensues as the rebellion launches a desperate assault, ending with a titanic battle between Matrix and Megabyte. Matrix manages to win and holds Megabyte at spearpoint. Megabyte is shocked that Enzo would kill a helpless enemy...but Matrix spares him to prove he's better, declaring that Megabyte will remember his defeat forever, and his humiliation. Megabyte? Immediately gets the better of him with "No, YOU remember, boy! How I turned defeat into victory! How I left you with a dying system!" before making his escape...only to be snared by a monster from the web and seemingly devoured.

However...Megabyte later returns to the city, disguised as a second Bob, the real Bob having already returned. Using this disguise, Megabyte clandestinely takes over Mainframe and proceeds to defeat the good guys, sending them on the run, and promising that "The Hunt" has come...end series.

Is he charming? Charismatic? A good schemer?

Megabyte is the Chessmaster. He runs circles around his enemies constantly, always coming up with brilliant schemes left and right. As for charm and charisma? Utterly. Megabyte rarely loses his cool in anything. Despite his brutal appearance, Megabyte is very suave, refined and softly spoken with a cultured accent courtesy of Tony Jay. He plots the takeover of Mainframe multiple times and wins for years at a time, ending the series utterly victorious, minus some follow ups where he'll inevitably lose, but give him credit where it's due. He passes this point brilliantly.

Is he a bastard? Too much?

He's a murderer, intending to take over Mainframe and more. When his actions leave Mainframe's system dying, he plots to flee and leave it all to die behind him. Yes, Megabyte is a monster. He's evil. Very evil. He can be nasty as hell. Oddly, he's far less so early on, believing in honor and keeping his word, even rocking out on Enzo's birthday party and giving him a guitar as a gift, letting Bob go to repay a debt...he loses these traits later on, possibly as a result of his web infection enhancing his nastier traits. He rules Mainframe as a tyrant, and he's noticeably more evil and cruel later on.

But despite this, Megabyte never loses his charm or his cool. Ever. He never stops clawing back up no matter how far he fells. His persistence is exceptional and his viciousness is secondary to his refinement and sophistication. Megabyte is frequently the captivating force of the show, and with good reason. When Enzo thinks he has him down and out, Megabyte simply turns it into victory. And he never gets up to truly revolting crimes, much like Megatron.

Conclusion?

As only Tony Jay can deliver, Megabyte keeps.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3466: Aug 6th 2018 at 7:59:00 PM

Yes to Megatronbyte, while he's in no shortage of a healthy ego I don't think he hits Smug Snake territory and the dude's Faux Affably Evil game is so on point you really can't hate him.

[down] My b [lol]

Edited by 43110 on Aug 6th 2018 at 11:07:15 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3467: Aug 6th 2018 at 8:01:02 PM

It’s Megabyte Mr.4 and a yes to him. WAY better than that Sorcerer douchebag in the Reboot of Reboot

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#3469: Aug 6th 2018 at 9:37:33 PM

[tup] Megabyte. And heck, I'll EP Bakura later tonight, if he's too bad to count I'll let others decide.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3470: Aug 6th 2018 at 10:48:44 PM

[tup]Rex and Megabyte

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3471: Aug 6th 2018 at 11:19:01 PM

BTW I found these entries on the YMMV page of American Horror Story: Cult

  • Magnificent Bastard:
    • Kai's standard operating procedure is to have everything play into his hands and know exactly what he needs to do — and when — in order to gain power.
    • By the end of the series, Ally has become this. Getting Kai convicted while absolving herself of her own crimes would have been one thing, but she takes it a step further by recognizing that he's going to make a cult in prison, running for senate simply to take the seat he coveted, planning for his escape by having a prison guard who acts as one of his cultists serve as a mole, having him try — and fail — to assassinate her with an unloaded gun, and publicly humiliate him before he's publicly executed by to boost her own poll numbers and ultimately win the election. The cherry on top? She's revealed to have started her own cult based on the SCUM manifesto, which completely counteracts Kai's masculinist, mysogynist cult he forms after winning the election.

I really don't think Kai qualifies as he's a Politically Incorrect Villain many Squick moment that take away from the magnificence (one of his first scenes involves him pissing into a condom then throwing said condom onto a group of Mexican workers!)

As for Ally I not sure if she hits the bastard credential hard enough to qualify

Though I'd love to hear other people's opinions on the matter.

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 6th 2018 at 8:18:45 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#3472: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:00:26 AM

Found this on Carnival Phantasm: Caster, surprisingly. She's one of the few characters to get everything she wanted, and came close to winning episode 9's car race to win the Holy Grail without even bothering to compete in person. It took BerSer-Car screwing up Assassin to cause her plan to fail, but it's likely she wouldn't really care anyway that it did.

I'm picking up this litter and throwing it in the trash.

IPP Wick Check created.
DrakeClawfang Since: Apr, 2010
#3473: Aug 7th 2018 at 12:22:47 AM

And here we go. Note I'll be using Bakura as he pertains to both the manga and the anime. The manga and anime have slightly different continuities, but much more similarities than differences. I'll note the critical differences in the EP, but if people think only one adaptation and one incarnation of Bakura should be considered, I can modify the EP with such a focus.

What is the work?

The work is Yu-Gi-Oh!, the Trope Codifier for "Card Games are Serious Business".

Who is the character?

Yami Bakura, an evil spirit who serves as a long-running antagonist.

What does he do?'

5000 years ago, the Pharaoh Aknamkanon ordered the creation of the Millennium Items, seven magical artifacts. As part of this creation, the village of Kul Elna was slaughtered, with a sole child surviving. The Items awakened a God of Evil, Zorc Necrophades, who attempted to destroy the world. Eventually Aknamkanon's son Atem was able to seal Zorc in the Millennium Puzzle along with himself, but not before Zorc placed a fragment of his soul within the Millennium Ring. At a later time Thief King Bakura, a bandit and the survivor of Kul Elna, came into possession of the Ring and also had his soul trapped within it. The souls of Zorc and Thief King Bakura conflated into the spirit known as Yami Bakura. In the modern day the Ring came into possession of Ryo Bakura, and Yami Bakura awakened and became able to take control of him. His goal now was to gather the Millennium Items and open a gate to the afterlife to resurrect Zorc.

In the manga, Bakura transfered to the school where Yugi Muto, holder of the Millennium Puzzle and host for the Pharaoh's spirit Yami Yugi, attended. Yugi and his friends visited Bakura to play a table-top RPG with him, and Yami Bakura, masquerading as Bakura, accepted. When the four botches their rolls, he retaliated by sealing their souls in their gaming miniatures. With all four trapped he presumed the game lost, but Yami Yugi took control of Yugi's body and continued the game. Yami Bakura resorted to trying to rig his rolls to win, but the spirit of Bakura fought back by taking control of the hand he used to roll; Yami Bakura impaled his hand on a spire on the game board to stop this. Eventually Yami Yugi won the game and freed everyone, and for a time Bakura refused to wear the Millennium Ring. In the anime aproximation of this subplot, Bakura meets up with Yugi and suggests a duel with his deck containing the favorite cards of his friends. Yami Bakura seals their souls in the cards and duels Yami Yugi. Eventually Yami Bakura tries to use Change of Heart, Bakura's favorite card, but Bakura's soul in the card rebels against his command and gives Yami Yugi the idea to swap souls; Yami Bakura is trapped in the Change of Heart card and is attacked and destroyed to win th eduel.

Bakura sneaks into the Duelist Kingdom tournament, as its host, Maxillion Pegasus, holds the Millennium Eye. During the tournament Yami Bakura attempts to take Mokuba Kaiba as a new host, since he dislikes Bakura's rebelliousness and Mokuba is currently missing his soul, making him an empty vessel Yami Bakura can exert total dominance over. Tristan incapacitates Bakura and throws the Ring away, but it returns to Bakura. After Pegasys loses his duel with Yugi, Yami Bakura attacks him and defeats him, Pegasus still weak from the duel. Bakura claimed the Millennium Eye (in the manga only, he kills Pegasus as well).

The owner of the Millennium Rod, Marik Ishtar, used the Rod's powers to take control of the duelist Bandit Keith, and stole the Millennium Puzzle and forced Yugi to duel for it. Alerted to this, Yami Bakura observed the duel and sensed someone with a Millennium Item controlling Keith. Unwilling to let Yugi lose the Puzzle to an unknown party, Yami Bakura disrupted Marik's hold on Keith. Keith flew into a panic and, believing Marik's voice in his head was coming from the Millennium Puzzle, shattered it. Yami Bakura incapacitated Keith and helped Yugi gather the pieces of the Puzzle, but discretely kept one for a moment — he sealed a fragment of his soul within the piece and than handed it back to Yugi, allowing the soul fragment to enter the complete Millennium Puzzle. (In the manga, Yugi's opponent is different and Marik is not involved, but the plot points of the Puzzle shattering and Yami Bakura placing a part of his soul inside it are the same).

During the Battle City tournament, Bakura senses Marik Ishtar's arrival in the city and confronts him to take the Millennium Rod. Marik instead suggested a deal - if Yami Bakura aided his plans to defeat Yugi and take the Millennium Puzzle, Marik would give him the rod. Yami Bakura agreed and stabbed his host in the arm, then relinquished control of him. Marik pretended to be a passerby named Namu who found the injured Bakura and took him to Yugi's friends, endearing him to the group. When Marik's next plot to defeat Yugi failed, he contacted Yami Bakura and demanded he enter the Battle City finals to continue their arrangement. Yami Bakura stole another duelist's entry card, one of six needed to qualify for the finals, and tricked the duelist Bonz, who had five cards, into a winner-take-all duel; Yami Bakura won and killed Bonz (in the manga, he defeats and kills five separate opponents, Bonz is merely the fifth one).

Yami Bakura enters the tournament finals and is paired against Yugi in the first duel. Yami Yugi suspects Bakura is under the Ring's influence again, questioning how he could so quickly gather the six cards to enter the finals when he was hospitalized earlier that day. Yami Bakura reveals himself as the duel begins, and during said duel pushes Yami Yugi into a corner. Yami Yugi summons his Egyptian God card, which is immune to Yami Bakura's defensive card effects. Marik tells him he has a plan to avoid losing, and has his brother Odion (who is pretending to be Marik) use a fake Millennium Rod to take control of Yami Bakura's mind and make him release his host (in reality, Yami Bakura just relinquishes control). Yami Yugi hesitates to attack his friend, who really was wounded earlier, but Yami Bakura is unwilling to risk him actually doing it, since he is bonded to his host and needs him alive. Yami Bakura reasserts his control and calls for Yami Yugi to attack, assuring him Bakura will be safe. Yami Yugi attacks and Yami Yugi is defeated, and the Millennium Ring is taken by his friend Tea, who Marik secretly controls.

Marik's body is taken over by his own evil alter-ego, Yami Marik. The original Marik returns the Millennium Ring to Bakura and Yami Bakura awakens again, now with a new deal - defeat Yami Marik and return Marik to his body in exchange for the Millennium Rod. Using Marik's knowledge of his deck, Yami Bakura pulls ahead in the duel, but Yami Marik tricks them with a new card Marik didn't know his alter-ego had, and defeats them. Yami Bakura vanishes into the darkess and the Millennium Ring falls into Yami Marik's possession, but Yami Bakura swears he will return. At the end of the Battle City tournament, Yami Marik was defeated and the Ring passed to Yugi's hands, but with Yami Marik's defeat, all those he defeated earlier were returned, including Yami Bakura. (In the anime, the fragment of his soul in the Millennium Puzzle allows him to avoid destruction - this is not mentioned in the manga).

In the final story arc, Yami Bakura once again asserts control over Bakura and begins making a diorama for "the Ultimate Game". He prevents the theft of the Millennium Items from Yugi and invites him to take part in this Ultimate Game by going to Egypt and seeking the Tablet of Memories, a tablet depicting the Pharaoh Atem — as Yami Yugi, he has lost all his memories, including his name, but they will be returned if he holds the Egyptian God cards before the Tablet. In Egypt, as Yugi and his friends go to the Tablet, Bakura follows them. When the Tablet begins to glow, Yami Bakura's spirit in the Millennium Puzzle hijacks events and begins the Ultimate Game — the Shadow RPG. Yami Bakura has created a diorama of Ancient Egypt as it exists during the Pharaoh Atem's reign, to be used as a tabletop RPG battleground. Pharaoh Atem and Thief King Bakura act as player-characters in the game, controlled directly by Yami Yugi and Yami Bakura, and Yugi and his friends are also in the game, acting of their own accord.

During the game, Yami Bakura (in the game world, through Thief King Bakura) transfers part of his spirit to the Pharaoh's priest Aknadin, secretly transforming him into a second player-character. Yami Bakura intends to gather the Millennium Items in the game world and use them to release Zorc, and use him to wipe out Pharaoh Atem and his priests to win the game. However, he has also set an Instant-Win Condition for Yami Yugi - somewhere in the RPG is the Pharaoh's name that Yami Yugi has forgotten, and if he finds it and calls it aloud, Zorc will be defeated. Yugi and his friends figure the name would be carved in the Pharaoh's tomb and travel there, but Yami Bakura intercepts them and challenges Yugi to a duel (in the anime, he had previously encountered the group and did to Tristan what he did to Aknadin; in the manga, the spirit of his soul in the Millennium Puzzle secretly entered as another player-character and followed the group).

Yami Bakura loses the duel and Yugi discovers the Pharaoh's name. Upon speaking his name, the Pharaoh vanquishes Zorc and wins the Shadow RPG. With this final loss, Yami Bakura was destroyed once and for all.

Is he a bastard?

Yami Bakura is a ruthless and remorseless murderer and thief who readily admits he "has done terrible things" in his quest to claim the Millennium Items. He has personally killed several people and performed Mind Rape on many others via Shadow Games, and repeatedly tries to kill Yugi and his friends. His ultimate goal in all this is to gather the Millennium Items, resurrect Zorc, and destroy the world. Along the way he is a Card-Carrying Villain, laughing evily, speaking in mocking and condescending snark, and generally just being a giant prick. During the Shadow RPG, he robs the grave of Pharaoh Aknamkanon and hauls his coffin to the palace to mockingly display it to Atem. When Thief King Bakura is almost killed in the Shadow RPG, Yami Bakura dismisses him and shifts to using Aknadin as his primary character because he's decided the Thief King isn't worth the energy to keep alive — he pulls You Have Outlived Your Usefulness on his own past self in the name of more efficient gameplay.

He is a literal Killer Game Master, killing people and tormenting them through his Shadow Games, which he makes very difficult to win. In contrast to many other Yu-Gi-Oh villains, however, Yami Bakura virtually never cheats at his games and is a Fair-Play Villain — the exception is rigging his dice rolls in the first RPG game, but Yu-Gi-Oh as a whole had some Early-Installment Weirdness, and this behavior is at odds with his later depictions. During the Shadow RPG, he tells Yami Yugi about the Instant-Win Condition he's created because he thinks it's fair play, but admits he doubts he'll be able to use it. Yami Bakura has special game powers as a playable character, and tells Yami Yugi he has given him special powers as well (in the manga, at least — in the anime Yami Yugi invokes his power with Yami Bakura surprised by this).

Yami Bakura cares for nothing and no one but himself, but this is subject to Pragmatic Villainy. Yami Bakura cares for his host, but only because his host's safety means safety for him, and otherwise terrorizes him both deliberately and by simple nature of being present. In the manga, when he first manifests in Bakura, he tries to endear himself to him by targeting teachers and bullies who have victimized Bakura, but he also targets innocent friends Bakura plays tabletop games with. Also in the manga, he occasionally manifests to help the group, then relinquishes control of Bakura willingly, and in both continuities he intervenes on a duel for the Millennium Puzzle to stop Yugi from losing. However, he only does these things because he needs Yami Yugi for his plans, and there's a dash of The Only One Allowed to Defeat You too: Yami Bakura won't tolerate Yugi losing the Puzzle to anyone but him. He has no regard for Yugi, but views Yami Yugi as a Worthy Opponent and treats him with respect, as an equal.

Is he magnificent?

Yami Bakura is an excellent plotter, utiziling a combination of pre-planned schemes and improvization. His plan to gather all the Millennium Items never comes to fruition, but he is still able to make a play for resurrecting Zorc via another means. He constantly takes advantages of new opportunities as they arise, like targeting the weakened Pegasus, sealing part of himself in the Millennium Puzzle for later usage, and making deals with Marik for his Millennium Rod and then revising the terms of the deal as either of them suffers a setback. Even when he is defeated or the Ring is taken from Bakura, Yami Bakura always returns from the shadows and the Ring finds its way back around Bakura's neck.

This tenacity and skill carries into his duels. Yami Bakura's deck changes throughout the series, but maintains elements of manipulating his opponent's plays, and he also uses trickery and psychological mind games to manipulate their plays, too. For example, take his first duel with Yami Yugi, where he sealed the souls of his friends in their favorite cards. Yami Bakura starts playing a monster called Morphing Jar, which makes players discard their hands; Yami Yugi grows fearful that he will have to discard his friends' cards, and plays them to the field for safety. Yami Bakura then penalizes this playstyle with Just Desserts (damages Yami Yugi more the more monsters he controls), Man-Eater Bug (destroys one monster on the field when attacked), and finally tries to use Change of Heart to take control of one of Yami Yugi's monsters and make it attack the others. Technically, Yami Yugi always has the advantage during the duel, but his desire to protect his friends allows Yami Bakura to manipulate his moves and make him hesitate and second-guess himself.

While Yami Bakura loses most of his duels, he still repeatedly demonstrates himself to be an extremely skilled strategist and generally loses due to an Ass Pull (a trope the Yugioh franchise has a long and loving history with). In an anime-only duel against Seto Kaiba, a former world champion, Yami Bakura is able to match him card-for-card and even pull a lead in Life Points before the duel ends with no conclusion, as Yami Bakura has to leave to pursue other plans. Additionally, he only conducted the duel to have his Diabound monster destroy Kaiba's Blue-Eyes White Dragon; Diabound absorbs the power of monsters it defeats, so when Yami Bakura summons it later in the Shadow RPG, he uses the Blue-Eyes' absorbed power to defeat one of Atem's Egyptian Gods that otherwise would have defeated Diabound.

Yami Bakura is extremely skilled at impersonating his weak, quiet, meek host. He plays at being Bakura for days, possibly weeks at a time, with no one being the wiser. He also frequently lies dormant for some time, whispering to Bakura or nudging him to do things without exerting direct control, then doing so when he is ready to make his move. At any one time, it's difficult to tell if you're taking to Bakura or Yami Bakura pretending to be him, and even if its the former, Yami Bakura might still be influencing him. In the manga, when the Millennium Puzzle is shattered, Yami Bakura is open in it being him who helps Yugi get it back, telling him he's "turned over a new leaf" when his scheme is the same as before. In order to help Marik in their cooperative plan for Yugi's friends, Bakura stabs himself in the arm so Marik can "rescue" him and earn Yugi's trust, and then in the Battle City duel he welcomes defeat at Yami Yugi's hands and laugh off his defeat by Yami Marik, assured both times he will return. And he does.

Conclusion

Yami Bakura spends the entire series playing tabletop Xanatos Speed Chess until he emerges as the final threat to the heroes, and in the meantime suffers numerous defeats or setbacks and always bounces back from them ready to keep plotting.

Edited by DrakeClawfang on Aug 7th 2018 at 3:33:20 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#3475: Aug 7th 2018 at 6:58:04 AM

I need to think on him. I'd be more inclined to vote up the manga's Thief King Bakura who cared about his murdered people.

Alright, next Warhammer 40K, one of the last two: Cegorach.

Who is Cegorach?

The Laughing God, the Great Harlequin. Now, remember how he Eldar empire depravity'd Slaanesh into being? And she ate all their gods? Well, there's a caveat of 'except three', only one being fully free and active. Cegorach is one of them.

Cegorach is the Trickster God of the Eldar, and he's...really, really good at his job. He also schemes for a purpose unlike Tzeentch who weaves webs within webs and then more webs that cross into each other and contradict themselves just because it's hilarious (Tzeentch is fucking nuts, btw). Cegorach? Was the one who tricked the Outsider into eating other C'tan during the War in Heaven long ago.

Now, when Slaanesh woke up and promptly chowed on the souls of every Eldar she could get and most of their gods Cegorach had not been involved in the depravity of the empire, and so he kind of escaped free and clear when Slaanesh began munching. Cegorach helped the Eldar War God Khaine fight Slaanesh, but when things were lost? Cegorach fled into the Webway where he hides from the Chaos Gods.

As a trickster god? Cegorach is the patron of the Harlequins, a special sect of the Eldar and he is devoted to them. Now, every Eldar is damned to Slaanesh's thirst when they die, but whenever one of the Harlequins dies? Cegorach inevitably rescues their souls, tricking Slaanesh somehow to rescue his followers. What a guy, right?

Now, the main concern on Cegorach's agenda? Screwing over Chaos. He weaves complex plots with his followers to take out Slaanesh's minions and the other Chaos gods, with as much aplomb as you can expect from a guy who's basically the Joker with a conscience as a God. Oh, and Cegorach? Was the mysterious being lady Aurelia Malys met and defeated ina game of wits...but since it's Cegorach, he's just used it as a foothold into Comorragh, running some kind of long con against the Dark Eldar.

So, is he charismatic? Charming A good planner?

Cegorach is like the literal god of this. Yes, a thousand times yes. Cegorach assumes mortal form at times and he's scheming, but pleasant. He's charismatic as hell, and loves his followers. As for planning? Very much so. Cegorach's hat is to convince his enemies to do his work for him, like when he tricked the Outsider into eating the other c'tan, dealing with multiple threats at once. He does the exact same thing against Chaos to deal with them. He easily fits this.

Is he a bastard? Too much?

He's a trickster god who'll screw over anyone who's not an Eldar. HE'll happily sacrifice others, manipulate others and do all sorts of things when he has to. That said, Cegorach is one of the most benevolent deities in the setting and everything he does is to take Slaanesh and Chaos down a peg.

Conclusion?

Easily one of the best WH examples.


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