During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Giving ayea there, too
Also, for just with Bane and Zannah:
- Lord Kopecz made a rational and reasoned decision to betray the Jedi for the Sith, believing the latter offered the best hope for Galactic peace. Becoming one of the strongest of the Sith Lords and known for his skill and brilliance, Kopecz's lack of depravity brought him respect even by his enemies. One of the first to join Skere Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness, Kopecz proves invaluable in battle, almost singlehandedly leading the defeat of the Jedi and Republic forces in one key confrontation. When he realizes the dangers of the Thought Bomb, Kopecz refuses to flee the side he had chosen long ago and opts to lead a charge so he may give the Jedi the information on what Kaan plots, as well as securing his own death in combat.
I'll probably save The Pizza Man for later, not in a EP mood today.
Scratch that, I've just remembered a candidate I'm much more confident in.
Anyone played POPGOES?
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 30th 2020 at 12:21:09 PM
Happy 'Yes' to Kopecz, as well as the Joyces
Alright, who's ready for some long overdue write-uuuuuuuups?
- Fargo: Ebal Violante is a wise old criminal who served as the personal advisor and advocate to the Fadda family, whose conflict resolution abilities and sound strategical advice are often ignored or overlooked by the impulsive Fadda leadership. After weeks of watching the Faddas slowly self-destruct due to incompetent leadership, Ebal finally steps up and takes the reigns himself, manipulating rival crime lord Loy Cannon into an alliance that enables Ebal to betray, demonize and execute Josto Fadda, assuming control of the Fadda family for himself in one, swift motion. Promptly screwing Loy over and revealing he's taking half of the Cannon territory as well, Ebal puts Loy in his place as a mere fish in the vast ocean of crime Ebal and his partners in New York occupy, and ends the story completely on top of the Kansas City Mafia, paving the way for decades more professional crime and business to come.
- BIONICLE:
- Axonn is a powerful warrior of the Order of Mata Nui who once conquered a vast swathe of the Matoran universe with his own two hands and brilliant mind before joining the Order out of a desire for higher purpose. Working with his close friend Brutaka in quelling villainous uprisings over the years, Axonn works against Brutaka when the latter betrays him, with Axonn uniting a group of Matoran into a resistance force against Brutaka and the Piraka. Successfully causing havoc throughout the Piraka ranks before beating Brutaka himself with quick thinking, Axonn later teams with Brutaka once more to unite entire islands of warlords with the Order to combat the rising threat of the Makuta and overcomes a mental trap and illusion set by Teridax himself, always showing himself to be an honorable, yet unflappable, force of power and will.
- Brutaka was once a member of the Order of Mata Nui before growing disillusioned and striking out his own, manipulating the treacherous Piraka into hunting down the Mask of Life for him while plotting to betray them. Though taken down a peg when the Piraka betray him first and he is beaten by Axonn, Brutaka comes back better than ever, escaping the underwater prison of the Pit and taking time to foil one of Makuta Teridax's schemes out of sheer disgust at the latter's evil. Reenlisting with the Order, Brutaka forms the "Federation of Fear" by recruiting a bevy of villains to his side that he uses to pull off a daring mission while keeping them all in line and using their unique capabilities to succeed. After assisting Axonn in recruiting dangerous warlords to the side of the Order, Brutaka uses his connection to energised Protodermis to thwart an attempt to kill Teridax and doom the Matoran universe, instead helping partners in utilizing a less destructive method that ultimately plays a key role in undoing Teridax and saving the universe.
- Toa Helryx was the very first Toa and the founder of the Order of Mata Nui, having grown ruthless and jaded towards the evils of the Matoran universe and seeking to create a secretive society expressly designed for dishing out extreme forms of justice to those undeserving of mercy. Via the Order and her own personal interference, Helryx has been behind a near-insurmountable number of events, from training and inspiring fellow Toa to creating the legendary prison "the Pit", all while striking key blows against growing villains to keep many at bay. Upon deciding to step out of the shadows, Helryx recruits evil beings galore to her cause yet keeps many under her thumb, turns Vezon into a stooge and sends him on a suicide mission, and decimates several Makuta strongholds with very little unforeseen circumstances. Though as shocked as the rest of the universe when Teridax attains godhood, Helryx takes advantage of imprisonment inside Teridax's mind to form a plan to kill the mad god even if it dooms the Matoran universe, and nearly succeeds in her plan before outside interference, proving once and for all that Helryx will do what she always has: "Whatever is necessary."
- The Matoran Velika spends much of the story as apparently nothing but a notably clever bystander to the greater powers of the Makuta and Toa, however, upon Teridax's defeat, reveals himself to in fact be a power hungry Great Spirit in disguise. Having played several minor events to his will, Velika decides to make his move on the reformed Spherus Magna, striking out and killing several of the most powerful beings in the universe in brutal ways so he can instill fear in the populace from an unseen threat, then swoop in as their savior and attain power above all. Plotting to even play the Toa to his tune before ridding himself of them, Velika takes advantage of a large gathering of beings on his hit list to forego any greater plans and simply bomb their location in the hopes to wipe them all out in one fell swoop, promising to then move on and complete his domination while no one ever suspects himself as the true culprit.
- Fatman:
- Chris and Ruth Cringle are Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus respectively, using their magical abilities and altruistic natures to pull off the creation and maintenance of the Christmas season every year. Turning Christmas into a billion-dollar industry by working with the government, the Cringles deliver countless presents to children on Christmas Eve night and maintain their elf employees' happiness and healthiness year-round. When the amount of naughty children grows so exponential it impacts their subsidy checks, the Cringles sign up with the United States military to mass produce weapons and technology, which they pull off expertly and to shocking proportions. Working together to take down the murderous Skinny Man, Chris and Ruth track down his sociopathic employer, young Billy Wenan, and inform the boy that the couple are going to be doling out their own punishments to children they deem deserving from here on out, and threaten Billy into being a nicer person lest they do unspeakable things to him.
- Jonathan Miller, "the Skinny Man", is a dangerous, eccentric hitman with a hatred for Christmas and a unique collection of toys made by Santa that he buys for top dollar from those looking to sell. Able to use his own resources to track down targets by just name and general description, the Skinny Man is hired by Billy Wenan to hunt down and kill Santa Claus, aka Chris Cringle, and proceeds to use deductive reasoning and false charm to follow a trail across the country to Alaska, where the Skinny Man simply stakes out in town until he spots Chris. Following Chris to his "North Pole" base of operations, Skinny Man goes on a lethal, skilled rampage through the area, efficiently killing his way through trained military personnel, bombing the toy shop, and nearly killing Chris and Ruth themselves with tricks. With a sad backstory defined by abuse, a love for his pet hamster, and even a slight tenderness towards children, the Skinny Man contrasts the hateable brat Billy by being a tragic, badass antagonist who gives the Cringles the fight of their lives.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 30th 2020 at 12:43:54 PM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Simon Says: Read this EP, if you want to.
What's the Work?
POPGOES is a Five Nights At Freddys Fan Game created by Kane, and is now part of Scott Cawthon's Fazbear Fangame Initative. In it, former Night Guard Jeremy Fitzgerald, now going by Fritz Glade, opens a new Animatronic restaurant aiming to be operated entirely by robots. The Nigh Guard, Strings, is even a robot, as revealed in the extras screen.
Anyways, in his spare time, Fritz aims to resurrect his brother, who here is this games version of The Purple Guy, by creating a robotic duplicate of him. The result? Our candidate, Simon.
Who is Simon?
Again, a robot built to simulate Fritz late brother, only for him to hatch a plan to escape.
What does he do?
Now, due to the fact that Fritz just built a robot specifically made to evolve, he was terrified of what it was capable of. So, of course, he kept him chained to a wall his whole life. Naturally, as he got wiser, Simon ended up resenting Fritz, and hatched a plan to escape. First, however, he figures he needs to practice his manipulation skills, so he sets up a bunch of puzzles for Strings to solve.
These puzzles, BTW, were purposely made to be ambiguous and tricky, and it only took people hacking the game to even figure it out, so he clearly has skills there.
On Night 5, if you solved all of them, he gains enough confidence, thanks Strings for the help, and tries out his plan- he convinces Fritz, who, throughout the game is in the same building as you, that he can save his daughter that Fritz accidentally killed by uploading the program the robots run on into him. Fritz, successfully fooled, obliges, at which point he has The Black Rabbit 3D printed, which has the pissed-off soul of his daughter in it, and she kills Fritz, frees him, and he makes his escape, but not before making a quick stop to Strings and shutting him down thanks to the latter overloading on Panic (Too much panic shuts him down).
He then leaves, finally earning the freedom he wanted.
Is he Magnificent?
While he does need a warm up at first, it ultimately shows that he's good at manipulating people, exploiting Strings natural curiosity for him to solve a bunch of tricky puzzles. When he does execute his plan, it goes flawlessly, exploiting Fritz's guilt and Bonnie's bloodlust.
He also has a nice, Creepy Awesome charm to him, and genuinely thanks Strings for giving him confidence.
Is he a Bastard?
While he was angry at his technical brother for chaining him up for his life, ultimately, Fritz was only trying to protect people on the oft chance he was hostile, and he still considered him his brother, but it doesn't stop him from killing him to escape, nor using his dead daughter and his guilt as bait to do so.
It's not clear wether he intended to "Shut Down" Strings, but he doesn't show much remorse, either, and considering that its one less witness, it's probably to his benefit.
Overall?
How's he look?
It's actually practice. He's just checking if he can actually pull it off. Fritz doesn't know it at all (The Puzzles are aimed at Strings, the Night Guard). He exploits the guilt Fritz has over accidentally killing his daughter, and seeing how he successfully created a robotic copy of his brother, than it could help him build a copy of his daughter. It's also been quite some time since Simon was chained to the wall, so he could've warmed up to him. Again, he did see him as his brother.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 30th 2020 at 1:24:26 AM
Alright some clarification: Why does solving the puzzles mean Fritz trusts him, given that he distrusted him before?
Edit: Alright yes to him then.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 30th 2020 at 4:31:12 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midRight, writeup time:
- Simon is a intelligent robot made by Jeremy Fitzgerald to revive his brother, only to be locked away by fear, causing Simon to hatch an escape plan to take revenge and gain freedom. Practicing his skills by setting up puzzles for the robotic night guard Strings, he tricks Jeremy, now known as Fritz, into connecting him to the mainframe by promising to bring back his daughter that Fritz accidentally killed, using it to rebuild The Blackrabbit, killing him and freeing Simon. He then makes his escape, but not before thanking Strings for his help, shutting down the guard in the process.
Can I be honest? Waiting for the votes is surprisingly nerve-wracking.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 30th 2020 at 3:18:33 AM
Same man. It is genuinely painful.
Another unapproved Magnificent Bastard wick I found, this time referring to Proton Jon on the Awesome subpage for The Runaway Guys.
- Jon had a huge one in episode 14. He decided that he hadn't been trolling enough and decided to really get dangerous in response to the group's repeated collective fails. He threw shells at Josh and Tim, jumped into a pipe on the second try after watching Emile fail around four times, survived a barrage of bullet bills, grinded extra lives despite having more than everyone else, screwed Emile out of a chance at a star coin and extra lives, gloated about being an asshole, got the Star Coin, and then managed to avoid Emile long enough to be the only person on the flag pole at the end. Wow. What a Magnificent Bastard.
I'm pretty sure this thread determined a while back that Let's Plays can't really have a Magnificent Bastard if it's not really telling a story and most just feature extensions of real life people. So, I don't think there should be any problem with me cutting this wick.
Write-up done. And unless I'm mistaken, think the pending list is fully cleared now.
- Spooks: Herman and Carmen Joyce are an ex-CIA couple with a grudge against Tom Quinn. After their daughter, Lisa, is institutionalized due to a mental breakdown during an MI5 operation Tom recruited her for, Carmen opts to ruin Tom's life. She and Herman stage a car crash and fake Herman's death before spending years plotting to frame Tom for an assassination. Herman murders an assassin in the Witness Protection program before traveling to London and fabricating documents to make it look like Tom's a traitor. After luring Tom, Danny, and Zoe to a farm for interrogation, Herman frees Tom to further implicate him, before drugging him and placing his fingerprints on a sniper rifle used to assassinate the Chief of Defence Staff. When Tom, now a fugitive, subdues Herman and tries to get him to turn himself in, Herman refuses, telling Tom he'd rather die knowing he destroyed his life. Later on, after MI5 corner Carmen in a safe house, Carmen admits to everything she and her husband planned before killing herself, satisfied that her and Herman's plans succeeded.
Wouldn't Outlaw Couple be better ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."That generally implies Bonnie and Clyde-esque with robbery and rogueishness that's romanticized. They seem more revenge inclined and not robbery inclined. Their goal also doesn't seem to be romanticized the way Outlaw Couple would. They are married though, so wouldn't Unholy Matrimony work?
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midWell...Let's go for it.
Setting?
Accel World is a light novel series featuring the videogame Brain Burst. We already have Black Vise, the acting-leader of The Acceleration Research Society as a keeper.
Our candidate? The real leader of the Society.
Who is White Cosmos?
The White King of Oscillatory Universe. White Cosmos is a veteran of Brain Burst that rose to become one of the kings of pure color.
Cosmos knew things from the Accelerated World that no one knew and made her goal to discover its secrets, being willing to do anything to get the best possible soldiers and items. When a player known as Saphron Blossom got one of the Legendary Seven Arc, Cosmos had her lynched, tied to the lair of a acid-based monster that was one of the few beings that could reliably harm her and used her own power, Resurrection of Compassion to ensure Saphron would get continuously killed until she ran out of points and left the weapon.
Saphron's boyfriend watched impotent and his rage turned him into the first Chrome Disaster. Cosmos ran away and left the other Burst Linkers to their luck except for her subordinates.
Cosmos used the "father-child" function of Brain Burst to introduce her little-sister to Brain Burst, said little would become Black Lotus, the future Black King and The Heroine of the story.
Eventually, all the Kings would do a truce thanks to the efforts of Red Rider, the Red King. However, Cosmos realized that lasting peace on a fighting game like Brain Burst would meant stagnation and manipulated Lotus to kill Red Rider under the belief that Rider was planning to kill the other Kings.
This caused Lotus to be exiled from the Accelerated World for years. In Real Life, a angered Lotus attacked Cosmos with a knife leaving her a wound. A wound that Cosmos would deliberately worsen to frame her sister as a violent girl that got practically exiled from their (already abusive) family.
Years later, Cosmos keeps herself busy with the White Legion while letting Black Vise runs the field operations of the Acceleration Research Society. Chrome Disaster revives and gets finally purified and Vise starts the creation of Chrome Disaster MK II in order to create a Ultimate Burst Linker.
Eventually, Vise is sucessful but the covers of the Society and the White Legion are discovered. Which make Cosmos act more directly and help Vise to trap the other Kings in a ellaborated assault that leads to Vise sacrificing himself to trap the other Kings inside Sun God Inti, one of the strongest Enemies of the game.
You see, Cosmos also got The Luminary, a item that allow its user to control NPC Enemies. Cosmos uses the Crown to control enemies like Inti, a Smith NPC to improve the Lumary and Metatron, a enemy that was freed for Haru and friends.
Inti is eventually defeated for the Legions that want to save their leaders but that turns out to be a big mistake. Cosmos appears to them to tell them that defeating Inti only started the final stage of Brain Burst, the Birth of Tezcatiploca, the ultimate Enemy with stats beyond the game itself.
Cosmos takes control of Tezca and...runs away. Silver Crow grabs to the Enemy and ends up in Cosmos' base. Cosmos decides to speak to Haru personally and she is surprised at finding Haru and her sister are already a close couple in a talk that Haru himself can't believe by seeing how Affably Evil she is.
However, Cosmos tells Haru that he's trapped into a Eternal PK and that if Haru doesn't obey her in a week, she will murder her friends.
The Legions go to save Haru and as they prepare, Cosmos sends Black Vise to deal with them and Vise sends Snow Fairy to deal with Haru's attempt to use the Highest Level to warn them and trap Metatron. However, Haru manages to escape from Fairy and warn his friends, who deal with Vise, whose assault is countered badly yet manages to escape unharmed.
Eventually, the Legions save Haru...and that's a Epic Fail because they did by breaking Tezca's crown, which make White Cosmos appear worried...and then tell Haru "Hey, why I should save your friends?".
Haru is desesperated and begs Cosmos that he and Metatron would join her if she saves their friends. Cosmos smiles happily as Haruyuki swears his loyalty at her.
Charisma?
White Cosmos has a personality that everyone respects, she's considered a otherwordly, almost divine being that has the complete loyalty of both the Society and the White Legion.
And about the Legion itself? They're all a group of ridiculously strong players, top tier of the game. And they all respect her, even the ones that doubt her can't but admire her.
Bonus Point. Cosmos is also considered the Star Student of her all-girls school, which is how she met some of her future subordinates.
When she is not in combat itself, Haru is surprised at how affable she can be. Acting like a normal old sister that talks to her sister's boyfriend. She also has a Worthy Opponent feelings towards the other Burst Linkers, feeling sad that they all will be eventually obliterated for Tezca in the future.
Even her own sister, whose life was ruined by Cosmos can't outright hate her because Cosmos was "the light in our house".
One of my favorite moments of her? She entering Brain Burst in her school avatar (basically, no powers of any type and more of the Menu Interface) to talk with Nega Nebulus. Nega Nebulus is aware that they can permanently erase her from Brain burst if they attack her, but Cosmos' presence, strongly tied to the Incarnation powers is so big that they're simply too scared of her.
Smart?
She is mostly off-screen for the novels, with Black Vise doing most actions. But with Vise out of comission for the later half of the White Legion arc, Cosmos takes his role with a lot of competence, giving Vise the means to trap the Other Kings. Reviving and manipulating Kuroyukihime's friend with the promise to resurrect her sempai (which was a utter lie, said sempai is dead even IRL) and chaining her to get Cerberus to use her special Game-Breaker power.
Inti's defeat was unexpected, but she quickly adapted to it by taking control over Tezca and running away with it, intending to save the power of the creature for another ocassion.
And about Tezca? She planned for it since the first days of the AW. Cosmos' Luminary is basically the product of finding the strongest item of the game and doing everything possible to enchance it with the intention of taking control over the Unbeatable Enemy.
And she did it.
Bastard?
Cosmos is willing to torture people, allow her subordinates to run inmoral experiments, revive people as virtual ghosts only to be used and discarded in plots that they may not agree and lie about reviving a girl that she personally killed.
However, the last reveals...She has a strong Freudian Excuse in wanting to survive Tezca's destruction of Brain Burst. Cosmos knows about other virtual worlds destroyed in the same way, she wants to survive it and find the truth behind Brain Burst.
She is a Benevolent Boss with the White Legion (Wakamiya—the girl that she lied to—aside) and even the Research Society, even joking about how Psycho Psychologist Argon Array makes her look more malevolent and powerful that she is.
And of course, her final act in Vol 25. She runs away to stop Tezca from trashing the Legionaries only to realize "Wait, they're my enemies and they destroyed the leash I put on the strongest enemy of the game, why I should save them? Is that right Haru?".
She effectively blackmails Haru into serving as her spy inside Nega Nebulus.
Verdict?
You Decide
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 30th 2020 at 9:09:07 AM
Watch me destroying my country
to Kopecz.
Alright, having confirmed everything, here's what may be our first Ron the Death Eater keeper:
What's the work?
What REALLY Happened
is a 1997 fanfic by Frollo Freak, a fanfiction author known for a series of fics that outfit Disney's take on Claude Frollo with a nice set of leather pants. While she gives Quasimodo and Phoebus fairly positive though slightly condescending portrayals, she bashes other canon characters, including our candidate:
Who is he? What has he done?
Clopin is the self-proclaimed king of Paris' Gypsy (I'll be using the fic and movie's terminology when discussing things from an in-universe perspective) population who wishes to not only kill Claude Frollo, France's Minister of Justice, but to avoid backlash for it, since that would have a severe negative impact on his people. His opportunity comes in the form of a man named Jean-Michel du Champs, a former rival of Frollo's who covets his high-ranked position and wants to get revenge on him for "stealing" it. Together with his illegitimate son Malus, Jean-Michel forms an alliance with Clopin, who brings Esmeralda on board, and the four (well, mostly Jean-Michel and Clopin) start hatching plans. They intend to not only get rid of Frollo, but to ruin his reputation and have him killed by the angry citizens of Paris.
They note that Jean-Michel looks a good deal like Frollo, enough to pass for his twin with some makeup and hair dye. So he learns to imitate Frollo's voice and mannerisms so he can act as a double when the time comes. The plan is to have the real Frollo secretly abducted and spirited away, with Jean-Michel replacing him and making Frollo a figure of hate by setting Paris ablaze. At the opportune time, he'll flee and shed his Frollo persona, while Clopin brings the real Frollo out of captivity, claims to have caught him, and lets the Parisans take their revenge. Once that's done, all the participants will get what they want: Jean-Michel gets appointed Minister of Justice to replace Frollo, Clopin gets hailed as a hero along with having an ally in an important government position, and Malus and Esmeralda get some more material rewards for their part in the plan.
What they don't know for the time being is that Jean-Michel considers them loose ends to tie up, and plans on betraying and killing the Gypsies.
But they need a motive for Frollo to go crazy. Knowing his weakness for beautiful women, they decide to have Esmeralda tease him at the Feast of Fools, knowing it would rouse his lust. Quasimodo's appearance is an unexpected development, but one Clopin and Esmeralda are all too happy to take advantage of, using him as a means to further make Frollo look bad, also making note of the fact that he could be a potentially useful pawn. That night, they take advantage of Jean-Michel's knowledge of secret passages in the Palace of Justice and drug Frollo's food, causing him to hallucinate, act irrationally and then pass out. This is the author's attempt at explaining away "Hellfire", just for the record. Once he's unconscious, they secretly imprison him in one of his own holding cells (the guards are out looking for Esmeralda on "Frollo's" orders, so they won't notice their boss is down in the dungeons) and have Jean-Michel disguise himself as Frollo and take his place. However, they didn't know about a pager Frollo has that allows him to contact one of his mistresses: an African-American from the 1990s named Danisha.
Yes, the racist, sexually repressed religious fanatic Frollo has a bevy of mistresses, including a black woman who practices what he'd consider to be heresy. This guy is so far removed from canon Frollo that he might as well be an Original Character. "FINO" is a nickname I've seen for this take on him. Also, he knows multiple time travelers, long story. But while the idea of Disney's Frollo hanging out in 90s America, wearing baggy jeans and a backwards baseball cap, watching Frasier and playing with pogs while listening to the Spice Girls is an amusing one, it's not what we're going to focus on today. I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.
Anyway, Frollo manages to contact Danisha. She links up with Frollo's younger brother Jehan and the two spring him from the Palace of Justice using a set of keys Frollo secreted away. Then Danisha takes Frollo to The '90s until things cool off a bit.
Meanwhile, Clopin has learned of Jean-Michel's attempted betrayal, and has adapted accordingly. Reasoning that Quasimodo's loyalties to Esmeralda must trump his loyalties to Frollo if he comes to save the former from the latter, he arranges to have Esmeralda stop his attempted execution of Quasimodo and Phoebus, knowing the two would side with him over Frollo. While Jean-Michel arrives at the Court of Miracles sooner than expected, Clopin's gambit still pays off and Jean-Michel takes a fall into molten lead. Believing that the real Frollo has also been killed, Clopin thinks he's finally won.
But then complications happen. Malus gets killed by his younger half-brother, Jules, in an incident of mistaken identity. Learning of Malus' association with the Gypsies, he blames them for leading him astray. With a map Malus had showing him the way, he tries to sneak into the Court of Miracles to confront them. However, he's quickly captured and brought before Clopin, who fills him in on why Malus and Jean-Michel decided to ally with him. The meeting is interrupted by Jean-Michel's legitimate daughter, Solange, who arrives with a 20th century gun and informs them that the real Frollo is alive and well. During the confrontation, she starts shooting, even as Jehan Frollo and Quasimodo try to stop her. Jules, meanwhile, torches the Court of Miracles with some Molotov cocktails he brought. The survivors are forced to flee, and Clopin is badly injured and unable to walk thanks to taking a bullet near his spine.
It seems like Clopin's lost, but he refuses to give up and vows to walk again. Believing the only two people who knew of Esmeralda's involvement in the plot against Frollo are dead, Clopin decides to have her marry Phoebus so she can become a respected member of French high society, while he pretends to have died in the massacre at the Court of Miracles so he can hatch a new scheme to take down Frollo. However, Solange and Jules are actually alive, though Solange was too traumatized to share what she knew and Jules had amnesia. When Jules gets his memory back from being kicked in the head by Frollo's horse, he confesses everything. Frollo has Esmeralda arrested and... "interrogates" her, discovering Clopin is alive after all, then has Clopin and his associates arrested, tried, and executed.
How does he operate? Is he magnificent?
Oh yes. He proves he can adjust to major setbacks, turns the tables on a man who tries to double-cross him without giving away that he knows, and is only undone by things he had no reasonable way of knowing about (the pagers, Frollo's secret extra keys, etc.). Moreover, he actually has a legitimate reason to keep his prisoner alive, which means he doesn't fall into the Bond Villain Stupidity trap. While he has darker edges his Disney counterpart lacks, he's still the witty, flamboyant Large Ham he was in the movie. Unlike Esmeralda, who contemptuously refers to Danisha as a "black slut", he never shows any signs of being prejudiced. He shows remarkable determination in the face of adversity, and while his execution is offscreen, the way Frollo describes it ("He vowed he'd walk again, and he did walk again —- Straight to his own death.") implies he faced his end like a man.
What kind of bastard is he?
This guy is far more ruthless than the Disney take on him or even the original novel's version of him, since he's willing to have numerous innocent people hurt or even killed as a means to an end. On the other hand, unlike his self-centered partner in crime, he's motivated by wanting to keep his people safe from an official who persecutes them (Frollo's still an antiziganist, despite the DILP treatment he gets). Furthermore, he was entirely willing to fulfill his end of the bargain with with Jean-Michel, and it's implied that he's genuinely disgusted at just how depraved his treacherous partner can be.
Competition?
The only real plotter he comes up against is Jean-Michel, who's both too despicable to qualify and clearly outclassed by him in the scheming department — he fails to pick up on the fact that Clopin knows what he has in store and has prepared accordingly. Other than that, there's really nobody.
Other factors to consider?
You may have already picked up on this, but FF has fairly... unflattering views of Romani people. The best-case scenario is that she — like a surprising number of other Americans — may not be aware that they're a real ethnic group, and I suspect even that's cutting her too much slack. This is reflected in the story: her self-insert and other characters we're supposed to like openly disdain Romani people in general and aren't portrayed as being in the wrong for it. As such, it's not just the fact that Clopin and Esmeralda are clear-cut opponents of her beloved Frollo that causes her to vilify them — their portrayals are heavily tinged with outright racism. Even if he hadn't already been disqualified by other factors, this racial bias would make proposing him as a CM controversial at best.
However, if we're going to put up characters who get bashed because they "pick on" the author's favs, I see no reason not to put up characters who are intended to be demeaning caricatures of actual demographics. Because when you intend to write a villain as a crude ethnic stereotype and end up accidentally making a genuinely impressive antagonist, why shouldn't we ignore how you meant for them to be seen?
Conclusion?
to the Gypsy King.
Side note: I really don't recommend reading these fics. Despite the really weird things they contain, they're not funny enough to be So Bad, It's Good. You wouldn't believe what I had to put myself through to make this EP.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 26th 2021 at 9:43:02 AM
@jjjj2: I guess. I really don't try to fret when it comes to potholes.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.I'd also like to note on Aura Blackquill, she DOES kill the hostages in the bad ending, including Trucy who is 16, which gives her a more bastard edge over someone like Marlon, who kills no one (directly) and is pretty much a Nice Guy. Sorry that wasn't in the original effortpost, I haven't gotten the bad ending in years, and I actually had to look it up after she was approved to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
Does that make her too much of a bitch though, as she's listed as Unintentionally Unsympathetic? Not only do I feel this is wrong as UU implies you're supposed to feel bad for them, which most MBs should not have else they go under GH. But when did the game ever state we were meant to feel bad for Aura aside from her innocent brother getting convicted. I've seen a few exceptions like Thanos, Xanatos, and some others, but for the most part, if the candidate is a woobie of some sort, it works against them. If they're a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, where the audience sympathy is debateable at best, yeah, that works.
I wasn't sure on Marlon regardless, I figured he was a no go. I guess 6 examples is good for Ace Attorney now, until I find someone else.
Here is the bad ending to judge for yourselves.
One more thing to note, it's more implied that she killed them.
Edited by Klavice on Dec 30th 2020 at 7:04:22 AM
White Cosmos and Fanfic!Clopin.

Well just looking at the trope page, Pizza Time Pizza is also a black comedy and we have keepers from those. I'm not sure how being a cult leader per se is disqualifying. This trope is about villains. Now depending on what he does it could be, but I don't think an EP would be unwarranted.
Anyway misread your EP the first time tyk, I see now that that was explained, and I said I was giving a
, but I'm just reaffirming that with a stronger
.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 30th 2020 at 3:27:57 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid