During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Time for my third Effort Post, or my Christmas present to you guys, albeit possibly slightly late for some of you. Not really all that much to say except that this one I found to be the most difficult so far as there is a lot of content to go through so maybe someone else was better suited for this one than me but I do love this character and this franchise so hopefully my work is sufficient. Let's just say, I Will Give You My All. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_N15egKj6c
What is the work?
Payday: The Heist and Payday 2 are a duology of heist games about the titular Payday gang, a gang of heisters who commit numerous robberies. There are also various pieces of other content such as a six episode web series. This setting is obviously quite conducive to Magnificent Bastards, and I do encourage others more talented than I to look into it. I really recommend you play these two games, they are genuinely some of the most fun I have ever had playing video games and Payday 2 is a genuine candidate for the game I have most fun playing. However, I should probably introduce the candidate now.
Who is Bain?
Bain is the enigmatic creator of CRIME.NET and the main contractor of the Payday gang. Some of the other characters could also count and I even have an EP planned for one of them however today we will be focusing on Bain.
What does Bain do?
Okay the timeline is a bit messy so I will not go into detail as much I usually do as it would take way too long to describe how Bain plans every heist. Full disclosure I am using the Payday wiki timeline for reference because it is kind of difficult, if you want you can give that a read but it is a fair amount of content so be warned. I will do my best not to parrot it.
https://payday.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline
Bain originates in Payday: The Heist. There is not much to say in terms of the story except for the fact that he successfully gets the team to pull off eight successful heists.
Two years after the events of Payday 2, Dallas returns from his retirement although not before being sent on a Stealth and Loud training mission by Bain. From here on out Bain plans many successful heists with various contractors, and with the help of the Dentist successfully organizes Hoxton's escape from prison and organizes the killing of the one responsible, Hector, one of the gang's former contractors.
After the gang steals millions from Murkywater, an antagonistic criminal organization, an operative named Locke is able to hack into CRIME.NET and blackmails the Payday gang into helping him steal from Murkywater, seeing this as beneficial Bain agrees and Locke becomes a regular contractor for the Payday gang. After multiple successful ventures Locke seemingly betrays the gang, thinking quickly Bain negotiates with the Butcher, another contractor and pulls the gang out of trouble. However, it is revealed the Locke was a triple agent and as his base of operations is stormed Bain pleads with crew to trust Locke at all costs, before being captured by Murkywater.
Locke, who is the other candidate I have planned, sends the team on various heists to discover Bain's location, eventually finding that it is a Murkywater facility where Bain is held prisoner. When they go to rescue Bain, they see that in his poor condition, he was able to kill multiple Murkywater guards. After collapsing and being taken off of the island, the find that Bain has been injected with a lethal virus, and only has a short period of time to live.
Unaffected by this revelation, Bain along with Locke plan one final heist for the Payday gang on the White House, which was the ultimate heist Bain was planning to obtain a presidential for every member of the Payday gang. The heist is successful and Bain congratulates the Payday gang before succumbing to the virus. In an alternate ending however, the gang end up finding the Dentist in the White House revealing that he was behind the plot against Bain. After defeating him, the gang activates a MacGuffin which alters the ending. While the details are incredibly murky, it is implied that Bain was reincarnated into the 46th President Of The United States.
Okay, I know that was not as much detail as usual, so to make up for it I will explain how Bain operates in game. While not all of the heists can be entirely attributed to him as there is help from other contractors sometimes along with preplanning, the vast majority of most heists have the plan created by Bain himself, including creating backup plans if a Stealth heist goes Loud. He is also able to change plans on a whim assuming something goes wrong.
Is Bain intelligent? Is Bain charismatic?
Absolutely. Like I have said, Bain is an excellent planner and yes while you can fail heists in game canonically Bain has succeeded in almost every heist he has created. While not every single plan goes perfectly he always has a backup plan ready and even in worst case scenarios Bain is able to quickly think of a new strategy. Bain has a lot of charisma to spare, he is Affably Evil despite his character page listing him as Faux Affably Evil which I think is bullshit. Bain is likable and is good at hostage negotiation.
Is Bain a bastard? Is Bain too much of a bastard?
The plans Bain has created have probably caused an untold amount of law enforcement death and the Payday gang has stolen millions of dollars, which isn't even taking into account any other crimes that Bain has engaged in unrelated to the Payday gang. That being said, Bain is Affably Evil, against killing civilians for both pragmatic and moral reasons, is a Benevolent Boss to the Payday gang and in the First World Bank, the first heist alone can Pet the Dog on multiple occasions.
Does Bain have any other mitigating factors?
Like I said Bain's plans do not always completely turn out perfect, however he is able to improvise and keeps his cool when mistakes are made. A small thing is that on heists where you make meth, Bain will sometimes tell you the wrong ingredient before correcting himself a few seconds later which can sometimes lead to you accidentally blowing up the lab. However this is mostly Played for Laughs and it is not really portrayed as Bain being particularly stupid and more as him trying to quickly adjust to something he has had little to no experience with.
Final Verdict
I do hope that my EP was efficient although I would be happy to attempt a rewrite if not, anyone who is familiar with the work probably knows that Bain is an easy keeper and my main concern is that my EP was not very good. Either way, hopefully this works out! Oh and if I do not respond quickly if you guys say no, I am just AFK because of spending time with family and all that jazz. One final thing, genuine question. Is it weird that I get genuine jitters before I post these? Like I actually feel nervous for some reason and I have no idea why.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"Merry Christmas to all of you who celebrate it! My gift to y'all is a holiday-themed EP.
What's the Work?
Klaus (2019) is an animated Netflix movie that offers a unique interpretation on the legend of Santa Claus.
But I can’t recommend this movie enough. It has so much charm and style, plus it harkens back to the 90s Disney Renaissance era (helps that its director Sergio Pablo was a character designer for Disney at that time).
Jesper Johansson is a lazy, selfish, and spoiled postman in training. He’s so spoiled, that his father, the postmaster general, sends him to the dumpy town of Smeerensburg in order to get him to clean up his act, telling him that if he delivers over 6,000 letters within a year, he’ll return home. Problem is, Smeerensburg is a town that harbors an intense rivalry between two families, the Krums and the Ellingboes.
So Jesper can’t seem to deliver letters when nobody wants to talk to each other. That is, until he meets a man who will not only assist him in his plan (though Jesper makes sure to hide his true intentions), but will end up changing his life.
Who is He?
Klaus (played wonderfully by J. K. Simmons) is a large, muscular toymaker who resides in one of the far corners of Smeerensburg.
What does he do?
Originally a jolly man who dreamt of making toys for his eventual child, Klaus’ wife Lydia unfortunately died before any of that could happen. Dreaming of a time when he can make children happy with his toys, Klaus, now a complete grouch, resides in his cottage where he crafts toys and birdhouses. Him never leaving his cottage gave him a reputation as a sinister woodsman whom everybody’s afraid to talk to.
It’s not until Jesper decides to make a visit to the woodsman’s shack does he rekindle Klaus’ wishes. Forcing Jesper to deliver a present to a child at night, while making him use the chimney when he’s cornered by a pack of guard dogs, Jesper’s able to deliver the present while almost losing his life in the process. Afterwards, Klaus forces Jesper to watch as the child opens their gift to find a toy frog.
Spending the next several nights delivering the toys to children, which requires Klaus forcing Jesper to climb down chimneys and engage in wacky slapstick, the eventual legend of Santa is created through a combination of Jesper’s and Klaus’ antics, plus rumors being spread by the town’s children. At one point, Klaus watches as Jesper hilariously fails to saddle up some nearby reindeer, only to instead lure them with food.
But all this gift giving starts encouraging politeness around Smeerensburg, causing the two rival families to start forming bonds. Klaus doesn't mind this, reassuring Jesper that “a true selfless act always sparks another."
Though not everybody’s happy. The hierarchies of the Krums and Ellingboes form a pact to stop Klaus from delivering the presents on Christmas; so they decide to get rid of all of Klaus’ toys to keep the rivalry going, as its tradition. By this point, Jesper’s plans have been revealed, and Klaus refuses to speak with him. Jesper returns to save the toys, but Klaus refuses to speak to him. Jesper ends up being too late, as all the toys are sent off the cliff into the ravine below… except not really.
Turns out, Klaus and Alva knew this was going to happen. They knew the Krums and Ellingboes would try to destroy their toys (the students in Alva’s class were gossiping about it), so they prepared a second sleigh full of wrapped wood. The real presents are safe, Christmas is saved, and in the process of retrieving the fake presents, two of the Krum and Ellingboe children get hitched, which Klaus points out to Jesper to reassure him about his stance on kind acts. Plus, Klaus was able to use the chaos to get Jesper to admit that he made a mistake, not even telling him of their plan until after it was a success.
And so Klaus spends every Christmas delivering presents to the Smeerensburg children for the next twelve years without getting caught. But one day, he straight up vanishes. With the help of his Lydia’s spirit, Klaus is able to happily reunite with her and officially becomes Santa Claus, now traveling around the world delivering presents to children. But, he makes sure to stop by every year to see Jesper, his old friend.
Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?
He’s Santa Claus. Well, not at first, but still. He’s quick on his feet, able to avoid detection despite his massive size, and is able to think logically in the tightest of moments. The fake present gambit he pulls with the help of Alva shows that he’s not only powerful, but also crafty, even using it to get Jesper to admit that he was wrong for lying to him.
Though he didn’t intend on turning Smeerensburg into a kinder town with his presents, he’s very appreciative of it, using it all to teach Jesper a lesson about altruism.
And while he’s not without help (Lydia’s spirit encouraged him to start delivering presents with Jesper, and Alva helped in the present swap plan), Klaus is still able to carry his own weight in the intelligent department with his plans and methods.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Klaus starts off… well, cold. He starts off distant towards everybody, he has a grouchy personality, has Jesper figuratively jump through several hoops just to accomplish his goals, and isn’t afraid to lie and watch him fluster just to teach him a lesson, or because he just feels like it.
It’s only through his interactions with Jesper when he becomes the legend we all know and love.
The competition?
He’s the only one, really. The head Krum and Ellingboe are the true villains of the movie, but they don’t get really craft beyond their successful plan to get Jesper to leave the island (which fails because Jesper’s able to talk it over with his father), and are out-gambitted by Klaus at the end.
Verdict?
Up to you guys, but I think he keeps.
It's Spooky Month!Klaus sounds like a
to me.
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Dec 25th 2020 at 6:19:34 AM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"Huh, good to see my EP was suffcient then.
For some reason I was a bit worried about how I had done with Bain.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"![]()
Ah yes, good to see a fellow Payday fan. We're not the most common breed but everyone who was in the know knew that Bain was a fairly sure keep.
The Christmas batch!
- Kakashi Hiden Lightning In The Icy Sky: Kahyo, a member of the Armament Alliance of terrorists, is a grieving mother who lost her son due to no doctors being available thanks to the Fourth Shinobi World War. Sneaking aboard an airship with her brother Rahyo to free the Alliance's leader, Kahyo implants her powerful ice upon ninja and even Kakashi Hatake himself before the hijacking, using the hidden ice to kill and disable other shinobi while even matching wits and skills with Kakashi. Upon realizing Rahyo's extreme brutality, Kahyo sides against him and accepts her punishment to become warden of the notorious Blood Prison, but not before facing the Fourth Raikage in an exhibition match and out-maneuvering him before the watching Kages.
- Moriarty: Professor James Moriarty is an intelligent and soft-spoken mastermind and the only man whose intellect rivals Sherlock Holmes himself. Moriarty is able to discover and ascertain details using his deductive ability in order to foil his opponents and rents these skills out to other criminals for a profit. After Holmes' apparent death, Moriarty helps to take down the vile terrorist Tartarus and runs rings around the competition as he brings himself back on top. As noble as he is villainous, Moriarty will order a massacre to take control of a shipping port only to also free the slaves the shipping port was using. In another endeavour, Moriarty helps rally the prostitutes of a crime lord into rebelling against him for their freedom and helps clear the name of a friend. A man who lives by his own rules and desire for freedom, Moriarty is a man who will stop at nothing to put himself on top and truly earns the title of being the "Napoleon of Crime".
- Commando: John Matrix is a retired Delta Force soldier enjoying a quiet life with his daughter Jenny. When Matrix and Jenny are kidnapped by terrorists aiming to put ex-dictator Arius back into power, Matrix manages to kill his guard and escape the plane transporting him. Enlisting the help of a flight attendant named Cindy, Matrix bumps off Arius' lieutenants through his own gambits, including: using Cindy as a Honey Trap and pretending to offer mercy to one before dropping him off a cliff, and all the while piecing together clues to find Arius' island base and gathering up supplies and weapons. Flying to the island, Matrix stages a one-man raid on the base, killing all of Arius' men before engaging in duels with both Arius and his right-hand man Bennett, rescuing his daughter and going back to retirement.
- Lawless: "Mad Dog" Floyd Banner is a well-respected gangster who introduces himself gunning down two ATU agents chasing him. Sparing Jack Bondurant and Cricket, due to not wanting to go to war with Jack's brothers, Banner goes into the moonshining business with the Bondurant brothers, while giving them the location of the two men who slit's Forrest Bondurant's throat and raped his girlfriend, leading Forrest and Howard Bondurant to find, torture and murder them. Becoming a regular business partner to the Bondurants, Banner helps increase their profitability by installing multiple large stills deep in the woods, while having gotten away unscathed when their operation is finally dismantled.
- Raven Darkhölme, better known as Mystique, is Charles Xavier's adopted sister and Magneto's right-hand woman with the power to shapeshift into anyone, who joined Erik after his falling out with Charles. Kidnapping Senator Kelly by pretending to be his aide, Mystique later tricks Rogue into running away from the mansion by making her believe everyone there has turned on her, and sabotages Cerebro as everyone is distracted. Engaging Logan in a fight within the Statue of Liberty, Mystique gets the upper hand several times, evades capture, and takes Kelly's place in the government. Discovering William Stryker is in charge of holding Magneto, Mystique sneaks into his office in order to learn where Magneto is being held before ensuring his escape by putting iron in his prison guard's blood. Later joining the X-Men in taking down Stryker, Raven even takes the lead by infiltrating the dam by using her powers, before trying to force Charles to kill all humans. Truly believing in Erik's goal, and with some of the best fighting abilities in the series, Mystique lives life by her personal motto, "Mutant and proud."
- The Crate, by Stephen King: Professor Henry Northrup is a mild-mannered man married to the abusive alcoholic Wilma. The only friend of nervous Professor Dexter "Dex" Stanley, Henry is the man Dex confides in when he uncovers the mysterious crate containing a ravenous monster that devours two innocent men. Sensing a way to be rid of Wilma, Henry drugs Dex, writes a letter to the gossip-loving Wilma claiming Dex attacked a woman to lure her over to the university before feeding her to the monster, whereupon he waits for it to go to sleep and binding the crate with thick chains to transport it to the nearest lake and sink it there.
- Orlando Innamorato: Brunello is a cunning thief working for the Saracen army under King Agramante. Fully aware of his king's desire to conquer France for himself, Brunello learns they need the captive knight Ruggerio to give themselves a fighting chance. Embarking on a quest to the fortress of Albracca, Brunello steals the magic ring belonging to Princess Angelica of Cathay, the steed of King Sacripante, and the sword of the warrior Marfisa. Enraging the latter, Brunello is forced to rely on his quick wits to successfully evade her wrath. When he and the army arrives a glass wall in the garden containing Ruggerio, Brunello constructs a brilliant "tournament of champions" ruse right outside to manipulate Ruggerio into abandoning the garden. When the knight pleads for his horse and armor, Brunello sets the terms for a deal that finishes what "the cheat" started.
- Our Man Weston: Professional spy Richard Knight is the villain of the story but is also its most cunning and impressive figure. Knight figures out the various secrets and suspicions of the various other guests and employees at the hotel where he's staying with minimal effort, even while the Only Sane Man remains blind to most of them. Knight finds the whole situation Actually Pretty Funny and refrains from doing anything with that information due to how far off base the amateur detective's suspicions are and because trying get the young detective fired would draw attention to himself. While he's quick to threaten his incompetent accomplice, Knight never goes through with hurting the man, nor does he harm an innocent. Their theft of an experimental military plane only fails due to an unlucky twist of fate. When his plans are foiled, Mr. Knight pulls off a cunning escape and comes across as a Graceful Loser. Knight then disguises himself as a police officer to rescue his captured accomplice before departing the story as free as a bird.
- The Song of Roland: Blancandrin is one of the "cunning vassals" of King Marsile of Saragossa tasked with abating the Frankish threat. While suggesting conversion and vassalage towards King Charlemagne, Blancandrin formulates a more devious plan to remove Charlemagne and his Paladins from Spain for good. Noticing the hatred inside Ganelon, stepfather to Roland, he pushes the right buttons to earn himself an ally that helps strategize the Roncevaux army massacre. Selling the idea of a peace summit to both Saragossans and the Franks to hide his real intentions, Blancandrin's deceit successfully razes the Frankish rearguard in a move meant for the greater survival of his king and people.
- The Tinderbox: The soldier seizes the titular tinderbox and uses the magic dogs it can summon to make himself rich by having them bring him gold. A crafty man who can always think on his feet, the soldier desires to wed the princess and courts her in secret. When captured by the royal family for his attempts at wooing her, the soldier tricks a young man into bringing him the tinderbox and uses a request for a last smoke to summon the dogs and kill his enemies. As generous as he can be manipulative, the solider also gives freely to the poor, knowing what it's like to live in their shoes, and marries the princess to start a very prosperous and happy reign.
- Creepshow: "Man In The Suitcase": The titular man in the suitcase appears to be a helpless businessman painfully folded into a suitcase who somehow produces gold whenever he is harmed. In truth, the man is a powerful djinn, far more cunning and in control than he lets on. Seeking out corrupt souls, the djinn feigns at helplessness to see who will try to harm a helpless man for money, even while being unable to repress a dry sense of sarcastic humor. After the segment's hero Justin is upset at the prospect of harming him for wealth, Justin's girlfriend Carla and best friend Alex betray and nearly kill him, whereupon the djinn gleefully takes the chance to present to them their own suitcases, saving Justin and taking the two off for a most unpleasant fate.
- Spooks: "One Last Dance": Johnny Marks is a former MI5 asset who betrayed his employers and became a freelancer. After faking his death in a car bomb, Johnny resurfaced in London several years later to pull off a heist. Using Kurdish rebels at his disposal, Johnny had them take over a Turkish consulate, distracting the authorities so he would be able to steal $15 million from a bank. He also acquired the identities of thousands of undercover MI5 and MI6 officers as leverage. Once Johnny has the money, he leaves the rebels to be apprehended while he escapes. Even when Harry Pearce manages to confront Johnny in person, Johnny threatens to expose the agents' identities, forcing Harry to let Johnny go free.
- Warrior (2019): Season 2: Rosalita Vega runs an illegal fighting pit on the Barbary Coast and has been planning her revenge on Elijah Rooker for killing her parents and stealing her family's land. To her wits, Vega has her sister, Marisol, marry Rooker to manipulate him into handing over his land and wealth to Marisol should he die and persuades Ah Sahm and his friends to travel to Rooker's Hill with her when they learn Rooker is hosting a fighting tournament there. Being invited to have lunch with Rooker, Vega uses this opportunity to kill Rooker and has Marisol sneak her, Ah Sahm and his group out of Rooker's Hill on the guise of being captured. When Rooker's bodyguard, Smits, shoots Vega, Vega dies happy having accomplished everything she wanted and hands over the prize money to Ah Sahm and his friends as gratitude for helping her.
- Magic: The Gathering: Centuries to millennia old, it's no wonder some planeswalkers develop skills in manipulation and strategy and begin to lose the morals that come from mortality.
- Urza is the most infamous planeswalker in the history of Dominaria whose millennia long crusade against Yawgmoth and Phyrexia forever shaped the world's history. The greatest artificer who ever lived, Urza spent his mortal life building advanced machines to wage war on his brother Mishra to control the legendary Mightstone and Weakstone only to ignite his spark when their final battle leveled a continent and started an early ice age. Discovering his brother was corrupted by the mechanical abominations of Phyrexia, Urza masterminded the Legacy Weapon to destroy them. After accidentally causing time rifts at his Tolarian Academy, Urza used them to advance his project in record time by creating the silver golem Karn to travel through time to find Phyrexia's weaknesses, the legendary Skyship Weatherlight to travel between planes, and the Bloodline Project to use eugenics over generations to create the perfect human. Urza formed a great army as well by uniting all the nations of Dominaria and fathering a race of magically enhanced super soldiers. When Yawgmoth's invasion finally occurred, Urza united eight other planeswalkers to decimate Phyrexia and anticipated one's betrayal to use him as a battery for a superweapon that destroyed the entire plane. Ultimately, Urza sacrificed himself to ignite his Legacy Weapon, obliterate Yawgmoth, and avert the apocalypse to save all Dominaria.
- Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, is the most ancient planeswalker in the Multiverse who dedicates his existence to defend all against powerful threats like the Eldrazi and his twin Nicol Bolas. Ugin's youth was spent learning wisdom and patience while Bolas learned to manipulate and dominate humans, and ignited his spark when he discovered his brother never truly loved him and saw him as a pawn. Wandering the Multiverse, Ugin made the Meditation Realm his own and allowed Bolas to kill him there to become the Spirit Dragon. Later learning of the threat of the Eldrazi, Ugin allowed them to devour entire worlds to learn their weaknesses and finally enlisted the aid of fellow planeswalkers Nahiri and Sorin Markov to seal them away on Zendikar. Next planning his brother's defeat, Ugin is ambushed and killed by Bolas but ensures his own resurrection by guiding Sarkhan Vol to his corpse and presenting a piece of his soul. Spying on Bolas through the gem in his horns, Ugin guides other planeswalkers during Bolas' harvest on Ravnica to ensure his brother would lose his spark and his power. Spiriting a comatose Bolas to the Meditation Realm and fusing with it, Ugin explains that he has utterly defeated him by stripping him of all his power, leaving all his schemes in ruin, and Bolas himself trapped forever alone with his failure.
- Nahiri is a master earth elementalist and Kor planeswalker from Zendikar who worked alongside Ugin and Sorin Markov to stop the eldritch Eldrazi from ravaging the Multiverse. Nahiri herself personally spent decades to craft the hedron network that served as the border of the Eldrazi's prison and stayed behind to maintain the seal and protect her home. Going to sleep for a time, she awakens to find the prison nearly undone and confronts Sorin on why he didn't return to help. Their confrontation leading to violence, Sorin seals Nahiri in the Helvault for a thousand years where she stays sane by plotting her revenge. Eventually freed by luck, Nahiri finds Zendikar being ravaged by the Eldrazi and gets her vengeance on Sorin by luring the titan Emrakul to his home plane of Innistrad. Also corrupting Sorin's angelic creation Avacyn, Nahiri hurts Sorin by forcing him to put down his creation, in the process allowing Emrakul to fully manifest and ravage Innistrad. Her vengeance consumated, Nahiri ultimately returns to Zendikar to use an ancient artifact to restore the damage the Eldrazi caused, only to be stopped at the last minute when it's revealed Zendikar would die from the massive change to its ecology.
- PAYDAY: The Heist: Bain is the friendly, enigmatic creator of CRIME.NET and the titular gang's main contractor. Genuinely caring about the gang, Bain does the majority of the planning for their first eight heists, which go off without a problem. Two years later Bain helps Dallas out of retirement by sending him on two training missions and then proceeding to organize Hoxton's escape from prison with help of the Dentist. After befriending a Murkywater operative named Locke, Locke seemingly betrays the crew, however Bain is able to escort them out before finding out that Locke is trustworthy and advising the gang to trust Locke at all costs before being captured. Bain kills several Murkywater guards in his injured state before being escorted off of Hell's Island and finding out he has a deadly virus. Planning one final heist on the White House, Bain successfully gets the gang to steal twenty four presidential pardons before either gracefully succumbing to the virus or being reincarnated as the 46th President of the United States if the Ark of the Watcher is activated. Against killing civilians and capable of kindness, Bain proves to be an effective yet noble mastermind.
- Star Craft:
- Sarah Kerrigan, the self-proclaimed "Queen of Blades", was a Terran woman with abnormally strong psionic abilities who was infested by the Zerg and became one of their most dangerous agents. After the death of the Zerg Overmind, Kerrigan began a plot to seize power for herself and claim revenge on all who had wronged her. She convinced her enemies she had reformed with the Overmind's death and became their ally, and exploited their fear of the Zerg and the UED to pit them against each other, then betrayed them once she no longer needed their aid. When the dust had settled Kerrigan effectively ruled the sector — all the Zerg were under her control and any enemy that could have posed a threat was dead or had their armies crippled. While her de-infestation and reformation softened her considerably, Kerrigan remained a cunning tactician who outsmarted logistically superior opponents and eventually took back control of the Zerg, and in the process willingly became re-infested and more powerful than ever. Kerrigan has repeatedly proven herself one of the most dangerous creatures in the galaxy, and anyone foolish enough to anger her or stand in her way will find themselves at the mercy of her Swarm.
- StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void: Alarak is a Tal'darim warrior who uses both schemes and power to climb the links of the Chain of Ascension and establish himself as an Ascendant of his people, killing rivals along the way and pitting his enemies against each other to advance his standing by proxy. When he's roped into a confrontation between the three Ascendants above him and the Highlord Ma'lash, Alarak surveils the situation and then sits things out, letting the other four kill and weaken each other until he sweeps in and cleans up what's left, leaving only Ma'lash outranking him. Alarak then reaches out to the Daelaam, who have been enemies of the Tal'darim for centuries, and makes them an ally to kill Ma'lash. As Highlord, Alarak turns his people against their traitorous god Amon and helps the Daelaam banish him back to the Void and eventually kill him. He's brutal, he's powerful, he's cunning, and he's merciless — Alarak is the pinnacle of what other Tal'darim aspire to be.
- Cucumber Quest: The second and fourth Disaster Masters prove themselves a cut above their siblings:
- Noisemaster is a diminutive, one-eyed machine whose DJ persona does well to hide the ruthless and dangerous schemer he truly is. Making a colorful entrance by joyfully hijacking Princess Piano's concert, he reveals his intent to use his Noise Blaster satellite cannon to reduce the Melody Kingdom to ruin. Working together with his pal Mutemaster, Noisemaster stealthily kidnaps Piano and uses her persistent screaming to power up the Blaster. When she catches on to his plans and calms herself down, Noisemaster simply waits for the heroes to arrive, manipulating Cucumber and Almond during the ensuing encounter so that he can isolate and strike Princess Nautilus, pushing the Blaster up to 100% charge with Piano's resultant yelp of horror, nearly winning with ease were it not for the last-second intervention of the Nightmare Knight.
- Rosemaster is an elegant and theatrical plant-woman out to seize victory in the Nightmare Knight's name, no matter how many attempts it takes. Using her powers of memory manipulation, Rosemaster concocts an elaborate scheme to trick the heroes into delivering her the power-boosting Hocus Crocus, via erasing all traces of the Flower Kingdom's royal family, setting up a fake contest to obtain the Crocus, and kidnapping anybody her powers don't work on so that they don't interfere with her script. Unfailingly loyal to the Nightmare Knight, when Glitchmaster reveals that he's been sabotaging the Disaster Masters for centuries, Rosemaster feigns anger to string her along, setting fire to Glitchmaster's plot to kill him so she may save the Knight from her wrath. While ultimately victorious and in a position to wipe out the heroes in one swoop, Rosemaster's personal conscience and faith in the Nightmare Knight cause her to throw the fight, praising Sir Carrot for his performance as she disappears.
- Aladdin: The Return of Jafar: Jafar manages to evolve into a flawless schemer by the events of this sequel to the original film. An Evil Sorcerer who acts as grand vizier to the Sultan of Agrabah, Jafar schemes to take the throne from the Sultan by retrieving the lamp with the Genie in it that can grant wishes, only to eventually be tricked by Aladdin to become a Djinn and be trapped in the lamp. Jafar returns after getting freed by the thief Abis Mal and goes back to plotting to take over Agrabah and get revenge on Aladdin. He first manipulates Abis Mal into using two of his wishes so as to leverage him with the third. Jafar then forces Iago to participate in the scheme in which he captures all of Aladdin's allies, fakes the Sultan's death and then frames Aladdin for his murder. Posing as Princess Jasmine, Jafar sentences Aladdin to death and doesn't reveal himself until Aladdin is on the verge of being executed. When Aladdin and the others attempt to steal Jafar's lamp, he overwhelms and nearly destroys them all with his powers.
- The Incredibles: Slow Burn: Slow Burn was once an ordinary watchmaker and part-time inventor who desires above all a "quiet life", but society's fast-paced lifestyle took this from him. Wanting to both acquire money to buy a private island where he could live in peaceful solitude and revenge, Slow Burn began staging multiple heists by turning society's chaotic nature against itself. He develops both an army of robots and a raygun that allows him to supercharge any technology, making them go berserk. With his raygun, Slow Burn stages multiple accidents to distract The Incredibles while he pulls off his heists unnoticed. Although finally confronted by The Incredibles, Slow Burn's Crazy Preparedness allows him to both figuratively and literally outmanoeuvre the heroes, even managing to remove Dash's powers by reversing his raygun's effects. On one occasion, Slow Burn pretends to be Caught Monologuing to stall time for a bomb in his hideout to go off while he makes a clean getaway. Despite finally being arrested, Slow Burn becomes content with the orderly lifestyle of prison and becomes a model prisoner, even mailing a grateful letter to The Incredibles.
- Mother Talzin, spiritual and political leader of the Nightsisters intends revenge on Palpatine for stealing away her beloved son Maul. Upon the return of Asajj Ventress to the clan, Talzin arranges an assassination attempt on Count Dooku, knowing he will survive but be in need of a new apprentice. Talzin provides her son Savage Oppress to eventually betray and kill Dooku and sends him to locate Maul when this fails. Even when the clans are threatened, Talzin reveals she once stole a lock of Dooku's hair to kill him with her magic, almost succeeding before the clan is wiped out. Later manipulating another sect with a ritual to drain their lives for more power, Talzin finally aids her son Maul to rise in prominence, matching wits with Palpatine himself before sacrificing her life to save Maul's own.
- Dissidia Final Fantasy: Golbez is Cecil's brother and was a loyal warrior of Chaos, but when Cecil is summoned in the 12th cycle, he begins acting as a Double Agent for Cosmos. As the 13th cycle begins, Golbez tells her about her plan to create the Crystals she began in the 12th cycle, and he then spends the cycle manipulating the heroes in order to help them along with acquiring the Crystals. He also willingly plays the part of Cecil's Arch-Enemy and challenges his beliefs to make him assert himself and prove himself strong enough to earn his own Crystal. He does all of this while being affable and calm towards friend and foe alike, doing anything he must to help Cosmos end the cycles of war and free Cecil from sharing his fate.
- Bib Fortuna, Jabba the Hutt's majordomo, is intelligent enough to allow his partner Bidlo Kwerve to gain a "greater reward" for bringing Jabba his rancor—becoming its first meal, as it turns out. Bib forms a conspiracy to take Jabba down at one point, saving Jabba from a second attempt while ingratiating himself further to the Hutt. Having saved a Twi'lek boy named Nat Secura to raise him to be a puppet ruler on Ryloth, Bib saves him from Jabba's whims by having his brain removed and stored. Later having his own brain removed by the B'omarr monks, Bib convinces them to give his brain a new home in the body of a rival as he rebuilds his own criminal empire with himself at the top.
- The Dark Lady Lumiya, born Shira Brie, is the one who kept the Sith alive after the fall of Palpatine. After being rebuilt when shot down by Luke as an imperial spy, Lumiya manipulates her way through the Nagai-Tof war before going underground. Training guardsman Carnor Jax as her apprentice, Lumiya helps to sabotage Palpatine's clone bodies for revival and steadily eliminates rival Sith cults by playing their enemies against them. Later returning to bring peace to the galaxy, Lumiya manipulates a galactic conflict and lures Jacen Solo to the dark Side, finally letting Luke believing that she was the murderer of his wife so Luke will kill her, allowing Jacen to operate with greater ease and fulfill all her goals as she goes on to her rest.
- Star Wars: Knight Errant: Vilia Calimondra, ruler in all but name of the Grumani Sector and matriarch of the Sith Calimondra family, is an innocuous seeming grandmotherly figure who is a ruthless Sith Lord. Having initiated the Charge Matrica to see who among her children was worthy of being her heir, Vilia is strongly have implied to have eliminated her remaining son Chagras when he became a threat before initiating a second contest among her grandchildren. Manipulating them and sowing strife to strengthen them while having them eliminate rival Sith, Vilia uses her spies to disable any plots against her, even using her granddaughter Arkadia's scheme against her to gain custody of her overthrown twin grandchildren to keep them safe, remarking that her reasons for bettering them are "While the Sith may be ancient, there were grandmothers long before that."
- Shadows of the Empire:
- Wrenga Jixton, aka "Jix", was an imperial trooper court-martialed after his failure to participate in the destruction of a city on the world of Falleen. Later saving the life of Darth Vader to become an Imperial Agent in return for leaving his friends alone, Jix infiltrates Jabba the Hutt's palace and swoop gang to safeguard Luke Skywalker, keeping Luke alive even after being forced to kill one of Jabba's men. After planting the dead man's code book on an injured swoop member, Jix departs with his mission complete and his enemies none the wiser while remaining in Vader's service.
- Evolution, by Ron Randall, Steve Perry, and Tom Simmons: Savan, the niece of Prince Xizor seeks to avenge her uncle and take over Black Sun. Disguising herself to gain a seat on the council of Vigos, Black Sun's lieutenants desiring Xizor's position as Underlord, Savan plays the Vigos against one another. Exploiting their differences to cause strife and borderline wars to keep them from allying against her, Savan disguises herself as an antiques dealer to operate in secret. Savan intends to obtain the Human Replica Droid Guri as an assassin and take over the criminal organization for good and all.
- Dark Forces: The Dark Jedi Jerec is a powerful Miraluka and former Inquisitor who uses his connections and talents to forge a massive information network and to convert Force-Users to the Dark Side while keeping them loyal to himself. Using his own schemes and abilities, Jerec seemingly serves many warlords for his own interests and gain the location of the Valley of the Jedi. Jerec is later able to find the Valley before facing hero Kyle Katarn, stopped just before he can achieve near omnipotence himself.
Feedback? Anything else? As usual I'll ask what did I forget, not did I forget anything?
Edited by 43110 on Dec 25th 2020 at 5:44:59 AM
The Tinderbox is missing.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."For future reference manyinterests type text as '''text''' and it will display as text. Makes it easier to read effortposts. Bain seems like a
. I should note that Faux Affably Evil and Magnificent Bastard are not mutually exclusive.
As for Klaus I'm gonna give a
. If I'm reading the EP right he goes through some character development. If he had remained as ruthless as he had at the beginning with forcing Jesper to face dogs, I might consider it, but by the end of the movie he just seems like a Guile Hero, and that's where most of his cunning seems to come from.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 25th 2020 at 11:44:23 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Yeah, that's fair.
Hell if a Complete Monster can be a Magnificent Bastard I know a Faux Affably Evil character can, I was just saying that the evidence all points towards Bain's affable nature being completely genuine.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"

Yes to Bib, Jix, Xillia and Savan.
Edited by Klavice on Dec 24th 2020 at 11:49:30 AM