TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#33901: Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:20:40 PM

I can give my two cents on Saints Row since I've played the first three games.

Short answer, the Boss probably counts but would take a lot of effort to EP.

Long answer, there's a lot of stuff the Boss does in the games which would make them this trope, they conquer two cities with the Saints and fight off an alien Empire. The difficulty in my eyes is the personality since character creation can give them a different personality based on player choices but for the most part they stay cool no matter what personality they have. The other problems is that in the games, most of the plans end up coming from the lieutenants since that's how the game gives you missions. The only other problem would be their actions in 2 when fighting the Brotherhood which has them descending into a Cycle of Revenge with some fairly nasty actions being taken, most notably crippling his enemy's best friend who did nothing to antagonize the Saints but I don't think they cross the line even with that.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#33902: Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:22:27 PM

Julius might have a shot at the trope too. I wonder if there are any other possible keepers.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#33903: Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:37:03 PM

I can't think of anyone else, the only possible keepers would be Matt Miller and Dane Vogel, who're probably smart enough but are too cowardly (though they're reappearances in later games may help that) and The General who I don't think stacks up to the competition.

Melinda Since: Dec, 2019 Relationship Status: Puppy love
#33904: Dec 22nd 2020 at 4:57:57 PM

Magnificent bastard drafts for the novel series section on Shooter. I think what you said about editing them to post yourself is fine but have asked on the get help with English thread.

  • Hugh Meachum is a CIA Cold War veteran who masterminds complex operations, both legal and illegal, over a decades-long career. His most notable action is masterminding The assassination of John F. Kennedy in an attempt to stop the Vietnam War due to both moral and pragmatic objections to America's actions in Vietnam. Originally planning to merely assassinate Warhawk General William Westmoreland, Meachum changes his plans to kill Kennedy with mere days notice, managing to persuade his accomplices that they're doing the right thing, while displaying sadness over the plan's failure, how Lee Harvey Oswald killed innocent policeman, and the deaths of his accomplices even though he arranged for two of them to be killed to protect his own secret. Over the ensuring decades, he slips into ordering less justifiable frame jobs and murders, but acts out of a sincere desire to stop the spread of communism. When his actions are exposed to the government, Meachum skillfully fakes his own death and spends decades in hiding, while setting up fake conspiracy theorists that his enemies will be drawn to, in order to alert him when someone is looking into his secrets. Meachum maintains a certain amount of respect for Bob Lee Swagger even while trying to kill him, and sincerely respects henchmen who are willing to risk their lives for his plans. When he's finally facing death, he chooses to make a final confession about his worst betrayals rather than let the secret die with him.

  • Anto Grogan I, Sniper is a former SAS sniper discharged for killing noncombatants who engages in some Serial Killings, Specific Target scheming to cover up a contract killing, which involves framing and murdering a Vietnam sniper so successfully that almost everyone fully believes in his guilt for most of the book., and avoids the suspicion of the authorities for some time after his name first comes up in the investigation. When Bob Lee (posing as an investor for his new kind of rifle) shows up, Grogan pretends to be completely fooled by the disguise and gives Bob Lee information which seems helpful to the investigation but is really just steering him towards various innocent parties and making Bob Lee view him as a friend. As the investigation gets tighter, he kidnaps Bob Lee and is willing to put him through serious Cold-Blooded Torture while apologizing for the necessity, and making arguments about why I would be a good thing if his employer doesn't face justice, and offering (possibly insincerely) to clear the name of the sniper he framed if Bob Lee will just talk. While he's initially willing to run for his life after Bob Lee kill his henchmen, Grogan desires to avenge them and is willing to meet Bob Lee for a final, one on one Sniper Duel.

Edited by Melinda on Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:06:54 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#33905: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:07:32 PM

Good but quite long. Do you mind trimming Melinda? PM if you’d like help!

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#33906: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:09:06 PM

'Yes' to Groagan and Meachum. Unfortunate 'No' to Dathan since he sounds like a fascinating character regardless.

I could see the Boss from Saint's counting, but that would indeed be a long proposal to work out, and it would be very Revan-esque in that a big chunk of their screentime has to do with player input. However, their dealing in the prostitution business might be a bit too far on the skeevy side, even if it's mostly played for laughs and there's no heavier undertones of slavery.

As 43 said, Makuta Teridax is too evil for the trope...everything he does is ultimately self-serving and out of a sociopathic desire for power, and while he's absolutely Evil Is Cool Creepy Awesome, it's a Darkseid case of the villainy being a bit too heavy—though in his defense, Teridax don't proxy rape someone, so [lol]

Know a BIONICLE character who does count, though?

Who is Helryx? What makes her a candidate?

Helryx was the very first Toa ever in existence in the Matoran universe. A ruthless strategist who came to the conclusion that the Matoran universe needed something more...morally flexible than other Toa or even the Great Beings themselves would condone, Helryx created the "Order of Mata Nui" under the noses of everyone, making it into a vast, universe-spanning organization with which she used to watch over the Matoran universe and dispose of threats or even potential ones over hundreds of thousands of years.

The Order—and by extension, Helryx— has had its hands in a lot of cookie jars throughout the franchise despite only appearing near its climactic finale...Helryx awoke and trained the original Toa Mata in fighting and directed them to their destinies, various Order members have helped Toa throughout the story on Helryx's direction, Helryx designed and had the Order oversee "the Pit" underwater prison that contained the likes of the Barraki for ages, and even some of Helryx's ploys and machinations threw Teridax himself for loops.

When Helryx finally takes center stage near the end, we see just how efficient she is. Helryx has Brutaka and Axonn recruit warlords across the univers to ally with the Order, stages several critical strikes against the Brotherhood of Makuta, uses Vezon as a stooge to distract the leader of the most highly-secured Makuta fortress, Destral, long enough for her forces to decimate the land, and she personally recruits the hella stubborn, single-minded Kheetongu to join the Order in the "Destiny War" against the Makuta through sheer persuasive capability.

So great is Helryx's gumption and impressiveness that she convinces the psychopathic Shadowed One himself to ally with the Order for a time against the Makuta, and when the Shadowed One tries to play things to his advantage and act outside of Helryx's orders? Helryx shows up, shuts down his latest plan, and blasts 3 of his best warriors off their feet to remind him of his place.

Helryx, using literally every available asset at her disposal, from captured prisoners to the Toa themselves, ultimately deals massive damage the Makuta as a whole, utterly decimating much of their forces, but unfortunately Teridax's own scheming goes off well and he achieves godhood, inhabiting the body of Mata Nui and becoming supreme over the Matoran universe.

One of Teridax's first acts upon achieving power? Trap Helryx inside his mind, proclaiming his intent to keep her out of his way elsewhere and force her to share in the "beautiful darkness" of his thoughts until she eventually breaks. Helryx, of course, faces all of this with not an ounce of fear, immediately spying an opportunity to eventually screw over Teridax.

And indeed, such a time comes, as Helryx lasts through a long period of being trapped inside Teridax to realise that it gives her a perfect shot at his weak point: the brain. Proceeding to push aside all her doubts and regrets, Helryx notes she'll do what she's always done: whatever is necessary, and begins charging up to unleash the Nova Blast...untiiiiiil the arrival of several outside parties to her location throws a kink in things.

Confronted by Brutaka and others over the fact that her damaging Teridax's mind and likely killing him will doom the Matoran universe, Helryx just stands firm, stating that millions of dead Matoran are preferable to the billions who will die if Teridax remains in godly power. Teaming with Axonn and rogue Makuta Miserix, Helryx fights off Brutaka's forces to prepare her Nova Blast, promising that they're all going down together and taking Teridax with them.

....(un?)fortunately, the arrival of the powerful Artakha—who seeks to stop Helryx's plan—is the last push it takes to make Teridax recognize the brawl going on inside his mind chamber, and he promptly teleports everyone inside of it out into space to perish, saving himself and apparently dooming Helryx and everyone present.

Luckily, the group are eventually saved by combined efforts, and last seen conversing amongst themselves on their next step, unaware at the moment that Teridax has been killed and the universe saved in their time stranded in space.

Is Helryx magnificent?

Helryx is the Nick Fury or Amanda Waller of BIONICLE. She's stern, she's tough as nails, she's running an organization she uses to mastermind a shitton of things throughout the story, and she pretty much never loses until Teridax gains godhood—which was something pretty much no one in the entire story predicted, and even then? She stands up against Teridax and the horrible fate of being trapped in his mind he dishes out, concocts a plan to fuck him over, and comes within seconds of completing it until outside parties tamper with said plans.

Anyone who can take a situation Teridax meant as a Fate Worse than Death and use it to gather knowledge, weak spots, and nearly kill him while he's a Physical God is magnificent. No ifs, ands, or buts, here.

Is Helryx a bastard?

Aaaaaabsolutely, Helryx created the Order of Mata Nui precisely to be able to do bastardly things that were necessary when others wouldn't. She once had anyone who know of a secret island's location assassinated regardless of their moral standing, she sends troops on suicide missions to further her goals, she allies with Complete Monster psychos, and she ultimately tries to doom the Matoran universe in a scheme to kill Teridax.

But above all else, Helryx is a Necessary Evil Anti-Hero who truly does want what's best for the universe, and is still considered an ultimately noble, heroic character by the time the franchise ended. She's a genuine Well-Intentioned Extremist, one whose points are often hard to refute.

Final Verdict?

Easiest Keeper I'll have from the franchise, I think.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#33907: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:11:14 PM

I feel like Teridax is like Palpatine. The Magnificence definitely comes out to wrestle with his Bastard factor but ultimately comes up far too short for it to be notable enough.

Yes to Helryx indeed though!

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#33911: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:23:10 PM

[tup]Helryx

Would comic book Nick fury count ? Was wondering since he's more of antihero their. His mcu version is great but not really enough of a bastard.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#33912: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:28:15 PM

[tup]Helryx.

Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 22nd 2020 at 8:28:23 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#33914: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:40:44 PM

@ Mir, I’ve wondered the same thing.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#33915: Dec 22nd 2020 at 5:52:18 PM

Yes to Helryx.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#33917: Dec 22nd 2020 at 6:36:10 PM

[tup] Helryx.

Okay, so not an Arthurian candidate like I said last time. That covers a decently long book, and I'm a slow reader; sue me....... I say that as I begin to propose an epic poem candidate, which required—you guessed it—-reading. Enjoy!

What's the work?

The Song of Roland is the oldest surviving piece of French literature, forming the "Matter of France" (and thus the French's answer to the Matter of Britain aka Arthurian Legend) based on the Battle of Roncevaux Pass in 778 during the reign of Charlemagne.

Charlemagne and his army of God-fearing Franks has been fighting a 7-year war in Spain, conquering everything in sight, and the last remnant is Saragossa ruled by the Muslim King Marsile. Marsile, naturally, is terrified of the prospect of Charlemagne coming in running the place, so he goes to one of his "cunning vassals" for aid.

Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?

Said vassal? Blancandrin is the instigator of the plot against Roland and Charlemagne.

He first appears to give King Marsile counsel on what to do about Charlemagne and the Franks. He suggests that Marsile accept the Christian faith, become a feudal vassal of Charlemagne, offer gifts and some hostages, in exchange for the Franks to peacefully take their assses back to France.

Well, it's less a "suggestion" and more of a "strategic ruse" to keep Marsile's autonomy in Spain.

Selected as messenger, Blancandrin travels to the Frankish camp and repeats the terms to Charlemagne, but he can't decide whether to take the bargain at face-value. Count Roland, Charlemagne's nephew and favorite knight, argues that it's a trick. His stepfather Ganelon, however, says it sounds sincere, and since he's backed up by some other influential Franks, Charlemagne decides to accept the deal. Roland nominates Ganelon to be the envoy back to Marsile, which makes him so worried and angry that he publicly threatens Roland with revenge.

On the way back to Spain, Ganelon and Blancandrin plot to kill Roland. When Ganelon finds out that Marsile is actually not interested in converting or being a vassal, he tells the King that he will definitely be owned if he tries to fight Charlemagne. Instead, he recommends that Marsile attack the rearguard of Charlemagne's army, conveniently led by Roland, and disable Charlemagne that way. Back in Charlemagne's camp, Ganelon lies about the new plan and pretends that everything is peaceful.

Now, it must be said Blancandrin disappears from the poem after this point. So, really, I'm just summarizing the aftermath of his actions:

Charlemagne ignores ominous dreams about Ganelon's possible treachery and leaves Roland his gang through the rendezvous point. Great work, idiot, because your premonitions came true! Marsile's enormous army corner the Roland-led Franks in the mountain pass. Roland is pled to blow a horn for help, but he refuses, anxious to do his duty as a faithful, fearless Christian knight.

Oh, Rolly, bless your heart...

Anyway, yeah, them guys dead as fuck. Fortunately, the Franks are so good they chop down a nigh-equal number of Marsile's assaulting army. Roland finally blows the horn to alert the rest of the Franks, but once they get there, even he is dead.

Naturally, Charlemagne gets pissed off, leads a second assault on Saragossa, and conquers everything. ALL IN GOD'S NAME! Oh, and Ganelon got tried for treason.

All's well that ends well. Except for the Spanish Muslims. Sorry, guys.

Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligence, etc.)? Why or why not?

Uniquely enough, the poem describes him quite flatteringly. The wisest of the pagans and a good, worthy knight, which are uncommon sentiments (Man, ya'll don't know how much the Values Dissonance hurts reading old shit like this).

Anyhow, Blancandrin is the man of the hour when he formulates the plan to get the Franks out of Spain. Persuading the Saragossans is easy; it takes more skill to sell the plan to Charlemagne and Ganelon, his envoy. But Blancandrin is up to it. During their private ride, he pushes all of Ganelon's buttons. He starts by flattering Charlemagne to get on Ganelon's good side. Then he talks shit about Roland to err Ganelon toward reason.

And it works. After just their first conversation, Ganelon decides to have Roland killed, and later "they negotiate the wrongful act of treachery."

Blancandrin's motivations start out blameless—securing peace in Spain—but he seizes on the idea of killing Roland and the rearguard as soon as he sees an opportunity in Ganelon's festering hate. In some sense, this might make Blancandrin's deceit more patriotic and excusable than Ganelon's.

Bastard? Not too much of one?

Masterminds the Roncevaux army massacre in the name of King Marsile to secure the future of Saragossa. Lots of death, deception, and an understandable if basic motive to wrap it all up. Not much more needs to be covered.

Competition?

Marsile goes along with the plan, and Ganelon offers an additional element, but the one thing that's clear? All the scheming and planning done in Song of Roland is thought of, performed by, or given aid by Blancandrin. Both he and Ganelon thought of the rearguard tactic together. How responsible is Blancandrin in dreaming up the Roncevaux massacre? Would Ganelon have come up with this on his own? Can't say for sure, so let's credit them both. But like I said, Blancandrin still manipulated and played the events up until that point, making him the biggest schemer of the bunch.

Conclusion?

Unless there's any objections, Matter of France gets its first candidate IIRC.

Edited by erazor0707 on Dec 22nd 2020 at 9:52:14 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Amanofmanyinterests Gotta love Jaws! Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#33920: Dec 22nd 2020 at 7:00:08 PM

After finally getting spare time after being incredibly busy for the holidays, here are my Magic write ups. They are slightly on the longer side at each around 200 words or so, but I did my best given how old Magic is at this point.

  • Magic: The Gathering: Centuries to millennia old, it's no wonder some planeswalkers develop skills in manipulation and strategy and begin to lose the morals that come from mortality.
    • Urza is the most infamous planeswalker in the history of Dominaria whose millennia long crusade against Yawgmoth and Phyrexia forever shaped the world's history. The greatest artificer who ever lived, Urza spent his mortal life building advanced machines to wage war on his brother Mishra to control the legendary Mightstone and Weakstone only to ignite his spark when their final battle leveled a continent and started an early ice age. Discovering his brother was corrupted by the mechanical abominations of Phyrexia, Urza masterminded the Legacy Weapon to destroy them. After accidentally causing time rifts at his Tolarian Academy, Urza used them to advance his project in record time by creating the silver golem Karn to travel through time to find Phyrexia's weaknesses, the legendary Skyship Weatherlight to travel between planes, and the Bloodline Project to use eugenics over generations to create the perfect human. Urza formed a great army as well by uniting all the nations of Dominaria and fathering a race of magically enhanced super soldiers. When Yawgmoth's invasion finally occurred, Urza united eight other planeswalkers to decimate Phyrexia and anticipated one's betrayal to use him as a battery for a superweapon that destroyed the entire plane. Ultimately, Urza sacrificed himself to ignite his Legacy Weapon, obliterate Yawgmoth, and avert the apocalypse and save all Dominaria.
    • Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, is the most ancient planeswalker in the Multiverse who dedicates his existence to defend all against powerful threats like the Eldrazi and his twin Nicol Bolas. Ugin's youth was spent learning wisdom and patience while Bolas learned to manipulate and dominate humans, and ignited his spark when he discovered his brother never truly loved him and saw him as a pawn. Wandering the Multiverse, Ugin made the Meditation Realm his own and allowed Bolas to kill him there to become the Spirit Dragon. Later learning of the threat of the Eldrazi, Ugin allowed them to devour entire worlds to learn their weaknesses and finally enlisted the aid of fellow planeswalkers Nahiri and Sorin Markov to seal them away on Zendikar. Next planning his brother's defeat, Ugin is ambushed and killed by Bolas but ensures his own resurrection by guiding Sarkhan Vol to his corpse and presenting a piece of his soul. Spying on Bolas through the gem in his horns, Ugin guides other planeswalkers during Bolas' harvest on Ravnica to ensure his brother would lose his spark and his power. Spiriting a comatose Bolas to the Meditation Realm and fusing with it, Ugin explains that he has utterly defeated him by stripping of all his power, leaving all his schemes in ruin, and leaving him trapped forever alone with his failure.
    • Nahiri is a master earth elementalist and Kor planeswalker from Zendikar who worked alongside Ugin and Sorin Markov to stop the eldritch Eldrazi from ravaging the Multiverse. Nahiri herself personally spent decades to craft the hedron network that served as the border of the Eldrazi's prison and stayed behind to maintain the seal and protect her home. Going to sleep for a time, she awakens to find the prison nearly undone and confronts Sorin on why he didn't return to help. Their confrontation leading to violence, Sorin seals Nahiri in the Helvault for a thousand years and stays sane by plotting her revenge. Eventually freed by luck, Nahiri finds Zendikar being ravaged by the Eldrazi and gets her vengeance on Sorin by luring the titan Emrakul to his home plane of Innistrad. Also corrupting Sorin's angelic creation Avacyn, Nahiri hurts Sorin by forcing him to put down his creation in the process allowing Emrakul to fully manifest and ravage Innistrad. Her vengeance consumated, Nahiri ultimately returns to Zendikar to use an ancient artifact to restore the damage the Eldrazi caused, only to be stopped at the last minute when it's revealed Zendikar would die from the massive change to its ecology.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Dec 22nd 2020 at 7:24:42 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#33921: Dec 22nd 2020 at 7:00:13 PM

And a yes for Blancandrin.

[up] No worries, I know they all do a lot.

Edited by 43110 on Dec 22nd 2020 at 10:00:35 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#33922: Dec 22nd 2020 at 7:12:18 PM

[tup]Blandacrin. Man Values Dissonance doesn't make any sense. A lot of enlightened people today think Muslims are pagans...

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#33925: Dec 22nd 2020 at 8:08:11 PM

Yes to Helryx and Blancandrin.


Total posts: 82,595
Top