During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
a) I'm actually not much of an Ace Attorney fan, I've only played the original trilogy and part of the first AJ before I lost interest. So cant help you much there sorry.
b) I think the comparison to Fawful clearly falls pretty flat due to Danganronpa being a pitch-black dramaedy about teenagers being locked into a fancy hotel and forced to murder each other to escape and Mario being, well, Mario. Fawful can get a pass because its for kids and all the other villains are equally goofy while that doesn't apply at all here.
Edited by WaryHoglet on Dec 17th 2020 at 1:08:42 AM
I think I'll just abstain on Tanaka for now, due to lack of familiarity with the work.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"Abstain on Gundham for now. There is a ton of Alternate Character Interpretation about his Jerkass Façade and comic moments, but to me he is more of a Guile Hero, so I don't know.
Just to kinda put your mind at ease btw there j, the character you plan on proposing sounds like he's in a different scenario. My issue with Gundham is we've got a (fun) spacey loon who happens to pull it together in one act and puts together a murder—something that over half the cast will give a crack at, with many getting absurdly elaborate—from my memories of the games. Conversely, if the guy you're looking at is "Magnificent" his whole run but just hops into "Bastard" territory during his final outing, I think that's fine for troping him.
For sure and it's something I do wanna note on Danganronpa in general I had to forgotten about: most of the characters are very divisive in almost every sense of the word amongst the fandom. There are tons of "X is really a genius" theories following the work and they're so prevalent it becomes hard to remember what's actually measurable in the game and side materials themselves.
Does anyone remember who effortposted Gundham? Maybe we should see if they have anything to say about it.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"~The Immortal Angel Newton, this is there effortpost
.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 17th 2020 at 11:09:55 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midWell since it's a slow day let me get FS out of the way. This month's episode was "What if Harvey Dent was in Batman Returns?" Long and short of it, no one counts. Penguin is still unhinged and Shreck is still a smug snake. Just like their film counterparts. Harvey is not really a bastard either. Catwoman is to similar to her film counterpart, with just a couple of lines changed, and doesn't really do much in the episode. Which is very disappointing as I really want a Catwoman. Here's
a link if anyone else wants to check it out, and give your own take.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 17th 2020 at 12:03:38 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadAlright, undertaking the extremely fun task of tracking down shit I've added over the past two weeks, this should be the batch if anyone's got feedback:
- Akame ga Kill!: Najenda is the brilliant leader of the Night Raid assassination squad and former General of The Empire, who charmed her forces into leaving alongside her when she defected out of disgust at their corruption. Coldly demanding payment for assassination services from the land's desperate peasants, Najenda proves instrumental in guiding her team and gathering resources for the planned rebellion. Convincing many members of the nobility into joining her cause, Najenda acts as a decoy in a plan of her own design and succeeds in crushing the Empire's armies and overthrowing the vile regime.
- Initiation, Transgression, Glorification and Lelouch of the Re;surrection films: Lelouch vi Brittania/Lamperouge is a brilliant, infinitely charming rebellion leader who possesses far more grace and charisma than his original series' counterpart. Using his natural affinity for chess and strategy to turn a ragtag group of resistance fighters into an elite terrorist organization called the Black Knights, Lelouch, under the guise of "Zero", uses them and his power of Geass to wage a massive war campaign against his own father and the Holy Brittanian Empire. Lelouch pulls off a variety of successful ploys that cripple major parts of Brittanian infrastructure, turns tragedies into propaganda to garner more support for his cause, and even fakes amnesia for months to fool his opponents into overlooking his continued scheming. After utterly outdoing his father Charles and brother Schneizel, Lelouch deliberately paints himself as a villain to unite the world against him before sacrificing his own life to solidify the Black Knights as a heroic group to bring all nations into peace. Upon being resurrected, Lelouch immediately steps right back into action, outwitting Zilkhistan despite Queen Shanma's time manipulation powers and once again saving the world, then deciding to peacefully Walk the Earth with his longtime partner C.C. to ensure peace reigns forever.
- Great Pretender:
- Laurent Thierry is an elegant con artist seeking revenge on the human trafficker, Liu Xao, for seemingly killing his lover. Establishing a crew of con artists in pursuit of his goal, Laurent deceives Makoto Edamura into accompanying him before forcibly ensnaring him into his crew. Throughout the series, Laurent deceives several corrupt and wealthy folk into bankruptcy. When Makoto announces his intentions to leave the crew, Laurent uses his connections to get Makoto to unknowingly work for a human trafficking group so that Makoto will help the crew out in their final scam. After getting Makoto to reunite with his father, Laurent and Makoto trick Liu Xao and his rival, Akemi Suzaku, to meet in a fake building created by Laurent's crew, before making off with their finances and stranding the traffickers on a deserted island. Having a near limitless supply of tricks up his sleeve, Laurent gets away with everything he intended to collect before going on to continue his life as a con artist.
- Cynthia Moore is a brilliant, money-hungry con artist in Laurent's crew and one of the few who can keep up with him. Introduced disguised as an FBI agent, Cynthia manages to bankrupt their mark ostensibly for immunity before leaving the mobster at the mercy of the police. In later arcs Cynthia continues showing her charm and ingenuity: at one point scamming her old friend's abusive boss into losing all of his money and later doing the same to a corrupt art critic who had in the past taken advantage of her ex-boyfriend, setting up an entire fake auction house to do so.
- Seiji "Oz" Ozaki was a brilliant con artist and successful lawyer who connived to be arrested with a tarnished reputation to give himself a reason to work for the Suzaku Group traffickers. Secretly in league with Laurent, Oz fakes his death at his own son Makoto's hands to secretly reconvene with Laurent after serving as the Suzaku Group's translator in trafficking children. In truth, Oz helps set up their complete defeat while saving the children, repairing his relationship with his son in the bargain.
- Batman & Captain America: This incarnation of The Joker lacks many unsavory traits of other versions. Receiving information from a mysterious figure, he decides to use a nuclear weapon to blackmail Gotham City into paying him $1,000,000. He first plans to build his own nuke, successfully obtaining radioactive material and cleverly escaping from Batman in the process. When this approach fails after Batman and Captain America foil an attempt to kidnap Robert Oppenheimer, he changes tack and decides to steal a prototype atomic bomb. After succeeding, he learns that his informer is Red Skull. Declaring his hatred of Nazism, Joker tries to kill the Skull, and helps foil his plan to nuke Washington, D.C. Years later, he helps plot and execute a scheme to permanently De-power Superman, only narrowly failing. Then he spends several years masquerading as his own non-existent successor as part of a long-term ploy to kill Dick Grayson, the second Batman, cheerfully turning himself in after he succeeds. Some time later, tormented by Dick's vengeful ghost, he refuses to break, and when he realizes his death is inevitable, he accepts it with quiet grace. Ruthless, witty, and able to roll with the punches, the Joker demonstrates that he's earned his title of "Clown Prince of Crime".
- Batman & Spider-Man: New Age Dawning: The Kingpin, aka Wilson Fisk, is the powerful criminal mastermind who controls all criminal organizations within New York City. Providing Ra's al Ghul with resources that help him to carry out terrorist acts around the world, Kingpin objected when Ra's wanted to cause destruction in New York. Eventually being forced to seemingly submit to Ra's, due to his desire to cure his dying wife, Kingpin then sabotaged Ra's plans by reprogramming his satellite, causing it to blow up and then revealing that he knew all along who Ra's was and what he planned, sneaking Batman and Spider-Man into Ra's base and outsmarting "The Demon", putting a stop to his plans before they even began.
- Magnificent Bastard Fan Works (for Crossover nicely reworking the formatting)
- The Gentlemen: Michael "Mickey" Pearson is the charming ruler of an American marijuana empire, who has clawed his way up from humble beginnings to become one of the most successful crime lords in the business. An utterly respectable businessman who respects his allies and gives them all more than ample compensation for their services, Mickey has evaded all attempts by law enforcement and other criminal gangs to locate his pot farms through bribery and hiding in plain sight. When he seems to sell his million-dollar enterprise and retire in luxury, Mickey dances out of reach of the many slimy and violent crooks he comes up against, before ultimately outwitting the treacherous Matthew and reestablishing himself himself to remain in the crime game. With a deep love for his wife, a genuine friendship with his right-hand, and a swaggering ruthlessness to every situation he faces, Mickey ends the film in triumph over all those who sought to oppose him, firmly proving to all that he is "the king of the jungle."
- Hitman films: Both versions of 47 prove to be just as effective as their Video Game counterpart.
- 2007 film: Agent 47 is a brilliant hitman trained from birth to work as an Agent for the ICA. After being tricked into killing the Russian President Mikhail Belicoff so his double can take power, 47 escapes the Agents sent to kill him, saving Belicoff's mistress Nika in the process. 47 then enlists the help of CIA Agent Smith, agreeing to kill Belicoff's criminal brother Udre in exchange for his help. Using Udre's death to lure the double into the open, 47 forces FSB Agent Yuri to order his Agents to shoot at the double, allowing 47 to corner and kill him. 47 then allows Interpol Agent Mike Whittier to arrest him, and then has Smith distract Whittier so he can escape. 47 then convinces Whittier to stop pursuing him by giving him the body of another ICA Agent to pass as his. While stoic and distant, 47 shows a softer side in his interactions with Nika, who he grows to care for.
- Hitman: Agent 47: Agent 47 is a genetically engineered assassin who works to find his creator Dr. Petr Litvenko before The Syndicate can use him to create more assassins. Discovering the location of Litvenko's daughter Katia by ambushing Syndicate operatives. When Syndicate agent John Smith hides Katia by getting her arrested, 47 also gets himself arrested before tricking his interrogator into giving him the means of escape. Capturing Katia, he reveals that she is Agent 90 and begins testing her abilities. After reuniting Litvenko and Katia, 47 is forced to leave him behind when he is injured. When Litvenko is brought to Syndicate chairman Antoine Le Clerq, 47 crashes a helicopter into Syndicate headquarters and sneaks in disguised as a firefighter. 47 is then able to defeat the nearly invincible Smith through quick thinking and when Le Clerq escapes with Litvenko, it’s revealed that 47 secretly handed Litvenko a bomb which he uses to kill himself and Le Clerq. 47 ends the film deciding to break away from his role as a killer by betraying his superiors to keep Katia safe.
- Inferno: Dr. Sienna Brooks was a highly-praised child prodigy and later became the girlfriend of college professor-turned-extremist Bertrand Zobrist. Believing in Zobrist's plan to unleash the "Inferno" virus designed to wipe out half of the world's population and thus, save humanity, Sienna picks up on seeing his plan through after he dies. Sienna arranges for Robert Langdon to be drugged and circumstances manipulated to believe he's in danger and that she's rescued him in order to gain his trust. She then continues to play his ally while he searches through clues left behind and saves him from the same "assassin" when actually sent to kill him for real later on. Upon discovering the location of the virus, Sienna abandons Langdon while thanking him for his part in the plan. Sienna then arranges to have the bag the virus is in set free through two explosive charges, kills Harry "The Provost" Sims when he tries to stop it and then kills herself to blow the charges, thus nearly guaranteeing the success of the plan.
- Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels: "Big" Chris is an enforcer and hired muscle to anyone willing to pay, renowned in the criminal world for not only his excellent success rate, but his honorable nature as well. Big Chris is hired by Harry "the Hatchet" to ensure his debtees, Eddie's group, pay up as the story starts, and Big Chris proceeds to not only swipe the cash from the Eddie, but also obtains two treasured rifles Harry has been hunting, all through nothing but precise timing and opportunity. Raising his son, "Little" Chris, in his ways to hopefully one day hand the "family business" over to the boy, Big Chris does anything he can to protect his son from outsiders, notably fooling the vicious Dog into lowering his guard before brutally killing him when he threatens Little Chris. After Harry is killed, Big Chris seizes the opportunity to swipe the man's fortune, set himself and his son up for life as kingpins themselves, then shows his respects to Eddie's group for their tenacity in facing Harry by letting them keep the priceless rifles.
- The Man from U.N.C.L.E.:
- Napoleon Solo is a charismatic, lovable Gentleman Thief turned the best agent in the American government, who works off his criminal debt by taking down threats far worse than himself, and all while lining his own pockets and having fun the whole way. Introduced outsmarting Russian superspy Illya Kuryakin using nothing but his surroundings and his own gadgets, Solo is afterwards begrudgingly teamed up with Kuryakin to take down the villainous Victoria Vinciguerra. Effortlessly seducing Victoria herself even amidst her suspicions and playfully trolling Kuryakin at every possible turn, Solo faces even drugging, capture, and torture at the hands of Nazis with wit and joviality. When Victoria seemingly escapes and has all but won, Solo uses his killing of her husband to bait the woman into stalling her escape in time for Solo's allies to kill her and end her scheme, after which Solo solidifies his budding friendship with Kuryakin by revealing he recovered the man's valued watch after it was lost.
- Alexander Waverly is a British intelligence officer playing The Man Behind the Man to agent Gaby Teller, having her play the part of damsel-in-distress in order to get close to the Vinciguerras and Gaby's uncle Rudi. Alexander kicks back and relaxes for two-thirds of the movie as he has the KGB and the CIA compete and do the bulk of the legwork for him while he stays in the shadows, having Gaby feed him back information and then having her seemingly betray Solo and Kuryakin to the clutches of the enemy so she can infiltrate the Vinciguerras. Admitting he's played both Solo and Kurykain like fiddles when forced to come clean with nothing more than a calm smile, Waverly is so charismatic that he manages to convince both the KGB and the CIA into relinquishing to him their best agents, all so he can set up his own organization he promptly dubs "U.N.C.L.E."
- Mile 22: Li Noor is a Deep Cover Agent from Indocarr working on the behalf of Russia. Through meditative training and careful memorization of a cover story, Li Noor fools a polygraph and offers information on caches of cesium along with a disc drive that only he can open, refusing to give the password until he is in safe hands before taking out a team of assassins while Chained to a Bed. As US task force Overwatch is dogged by Indocarr agents on the way to a safe airstrip, Li Noor helps James Silva's team evade the agents, sticking his neck out to help them multiple times. Once on a safe plane, Li Noor reveals that the whole operation was a trap for the Russian government to locate Overwatch's computer crew and decimate them for Silva's execution of a Russian General's son earlier in the film, proving himself indispensable to every faction he works for.
- Triple 9: Franco Rodriguez is part of a crew of robbers, serving as their planner. Assigned by Irina Vlaslov to steal data from a highly secured government building, Franco comes up with a plan to have a cop killed where fellow Dirty Cop Marcus Belmont would make a Triple 9 send all the cops to that location and leaving the building vulnerable for them to rob, while agreeing with Marcus' suggestion that his partner, Chris Allen, be the cop that they'll kill. When the call is made he and Micheal Atwood breach the building and steal all the data for Irina, before Franco kills Micheal and takes all of Micheal's money. Learning that it was Chris who made the call while Marcus got shot, Franco offers Chris a ride planing to kill him, before he encounters Chris's uncle, Jeffrey Allen, in his car where the two have a shoot out.
- Triple Threat: Jaka pursues Collins and his mercenaries in the hopes of avenging his village and wife. Recognizing two defectors at an illegal fighting match, Jaka gets them drunk and has them arrested in order to lure the mercenaries to the police station for a confrontation, aiding the defectors in neutralizing two mercenaries in the process. Later talking his way into the mercenary crew, Jaka lets the defectors escape with the heiress Tian Xiao Xian when he encounters them. In the final confrontation, Jaka assists the defectors in eliminating the mercenaries before informing the Chinese Embassy that Xiao Xian is safe.
- Our Man Weston: Mr. Knight is the villain of the story and also its most cunning and impressive figure. Knight figures out the various secrets and suspicions of the various other guests and employees at the hotel where he's staying with minimal effort, even while the Only Sane Man remains blind to most of them. Knight finds the whole situation Actually Pretty Funny and refrains from doing anything with that information due to how far off base the amateur detective's suspicions are and because trying get the young detective fired would draw attention to himself. Throughout the story, Knight never harms any of the other characters, or even displays any desire or plan to do so. Knight never loses his temper or shows fear throughout the book. His planned theft of an experimental military plane only fails due to an unlucky turn of fate. When his plans are foiled, Mr. Knight pulls off a cunning escape—having prepared for that contingency—and comes across as a Graceful Loser. Knight then disguises himself as a police officer to rescue his captured accomplice before departing the story.
- And Then There Were None (2015): "U.N. Owen", true identity Justice Lawrence Wargrave, lures 9 guilty parties to Soldier Island with intent to eliminate them according to his own macabre sense of humor and justice. A consummate sadist since youth, Wargrave maintains a sense of humor and justice, reserving the worst fates for the most morally depraved of the group, faking his own death by convincing the only doctor to assist him before eliminating the man to hold his cover. Wargrave proceeds to kill all the others, saving Vera Claythorn for last due to her murder of a little boy under her care, waiting until it is impossible for her to escape and detailing his plans before he allows her to hang and promptly commits suicide to create the ultimate mystery that no one will ever solve.
- The Librarians (2014):
- The Librarian : Curse of the Judas Chalice (2008): Vlad the Impaler, Dracula himself is a cunning and vicious vampire who became crippled and near powerless after drinking contaminated blood and now seeks the Judas Chalice to revive himself to full glory. In the present, Dracula masquerades as the meek and seemingly harmless Professor Lazlo who is taken in by Sergei Kubichek who is plotting to use vampires and the Judas Chalice to bring order to Russia again. Dracula instead plays along and uses Kubichek and hero Flynn Carson as his puppets throughout the film, manipulating them into getting the Chalice for him and disposing of Kubichek when he successfully obtains it and fully restores himself, intending to use the Chalice to usher in an Age of Darkness with him as ruler. A charismatic and aristocratic vampire, Dracula even goes out gracefully upon being killed by Flynn who he genuinely respects, even complimenting him as a great historian before dying.
- Series: Dulaque is the charismatic and devious leader of the Serpent Brotherhood and is in truth Lancelot du Lac, having become bitter and twisted after the fall of Camelot. Dulaque desires to return the world to the age of magic and kings, believing it to be what humanity needs to prosper, and will stop at nothing to make it happen. Over the course of the series, Dulaque has a long list of ingenious acts, such as manipulating Cassandra into getting him into the Library and using Excalibur to return magic to the world, tricking and capturing Santa Claus and using his diplomatic charm to try and have the various magical factions disband the Library. Finally, in his greatest move, Dulaque leaks information and has The Librarians create a portal to the Loom Of Fate to allow him to rewrite history and return Camelot to existence. A genius plotter who always has a new plan and takes his defeats in stride, Dulaque is the most dangerous enemy faced by The Library.
- Merlin (1998): Queen Mab is a goddess who recognized a decline in followers of the "Old Ways" that would to her kind's demise. Unlike her sister Nimue contented herself with letting destiny pass its course, Mab sought to survive at all costs. She conceived a half-human son, the titular Merlin, to groom into a leader of the Old Ways. When he eventually rebukes Mab after her Accidental Murder of Ambrosia, Mab manipulates Lord Vortigen to be her new champion. When he is killed by Uther Pendragon, who later fathered King Arthur to lead a kingdom unfavorable to the Old Ways, Mab manipulates Morgan by offering her compassion, obtaining a contingency against Arthur. Mab laters serves as a treacherous influence to Mordred, the result of Morgan and Arthur's tryst. Through him and an enchanted enclave keeping Merlin occupied, Mab indirectly succeeds in toppling the Pendragon kingdom from behind the scenes. Desperate to keep herself and the Old Ways alive, the devious and powerful Mab remained a step ahead of everyone for almost the entire miniseries.
- Minder: "Senior Citizen Caine": Cecil Caine is an elderly, flamboyant yet genial businessman and a legend within the community for dealing and grafting himself a fortune and far more shrewd than he appears. Freed of his last responsibility and knowing his lazy offsprings, Johnny and Sonia, plan to institutionalize him to steal everything and that the authorities are closing in, Cecil lets nothing interfere with his retirement. Transferring his businesses but none of his money to his children so they'll have to actually work or face bankruptcy, an ambushed Cecil manages to improvise an escape with all the cash on the premises and goes to ground. Banking on Johnny breaking Arthur, Cecil purposely lets him in and hires Terry. Gathering the rest of his hidden funds Cecil switches them with a decoy, then waits for Johnny and his goons to arrive, the fight spurring the authorities into action. Using the confusion to escape to his lover and real money, Cecil flees London leaving his children to explain the financial irregularities.
- Iced Earth's The Crucible of Man: Something Wicked Part 2: Set Abominae, seeking vengeance of the exterminated Setian race, is taught of his people's suffering and how he is the vengeance of a million unjustly Setian souls, manipulating the death of Jesus Christ to divide mankind with Christianity and spending centuries after conniving the rise and fall of kingdoms even as he eliminates those who can pose a threat. After two thousand years, Set finally decides mankind may be flawed, but they have changed and improved enough for him to spare them albeit with a warning if they should succumb to darkness, he will return without mercy.
- NateWantsToBattle's "The Phantom
" from Paid in Exposure: The titular Phantom, heavily implied to be the Devil himself, is a smooth, charming demon who makes deals with people. He relentlessly stalks them into taking up a deal, and, either out of fair sportsmanship or reverse phycology, leave clues as to how risky the deal is, while still playing up the benefits, leaving the client with a choice. The music video shows him in action, effortlessly charming a struggling stage magician into signing his contract, then taking his soul when all is said and done.
- The Stupendium: The Stupendium made a name of injecting plenty of personality into his songs, something that these characters, wether played straight or given Adaptational Villainy, use to stand out as particularly clever bastards:
- Animal Crossing songs
- "Nook, Line and Sinker
": Tom Nook is the charming founder of the "New Horizons" getaway project. An expert con man, Nook would trick customers into moving into a unfinished village, which forces the villagers to pay for finishing it. When it would collapse on itself, Nook would trick the villagers to move to a new island, repeating the cycle, with the implication that this has happened before many times. Nook then pin the blame on the Mayor, though not before criticizing him for his treatment of Isabelle. Though somewhat smug, he manages to keep his ego in check, and he manages to get away with everything he's done.
- "Rouge's Gallery
": Crazy Redd is a charismatic Con Man who sells seemingly genuine works of art. Effortlessly charming the listener into buying his wears, it's eventually revealed that he actually steals the original art from museums, makes nearly perfect forgeries, and sells them to unsuspecting customers, with the fakes being so good that he sometimes accidentally sells the original, something he uses to frame the customer for theft. Being ruthless enough to murder anyone who threatens his business, he makes his leave upon being detected, but not before promising the listener that he'll mail the art to you.
- "Nook, Line and Sinker
- Fallout: New Vegas song The House Always Wins
: Robert House is as brilliant as ever. A survivor from the first Nuclear War, he made a civilization from a casino called The Strip from scratch, enabling refugees to happily live in paradise, if they're willing to pay some fees. House openly admits that he funds the place using the money of broke gamblers, using it to invest in security robots that ruthlessly kill anyone who challenges his authority. Despite this, he genuinely believes The Strip is humanity's best shot at utopia, pointing out how the other settlements aren't exactly trustworthy either, as well as criticizing the political nature of the pre-wasteland world.
- Animal Crossing songs
- LittleBigPlanet Sackboy: A Big Adventure (2020): Vex initially comes off as a goofy scoundrel until his true colors are revealed. Planning to use a machine to throw Craftworld into chaos, Vex kidnaps the residents of Loom and has them work on his machine, while purposely letting Sackboy escape. After seemingly dropping his plans continuously and fighting in an underwhelming manner, Vex eventually reveals to Sackboy that he dropped them on purpose so that he can get them for him, stealing them all from him and engaging him in a much more intense battle. Even after seemingly been defeated, it's revealed that Vex escaped and activated the Topsy-Turver already, planning to replace the Tree of Imagination with it to become a god. Nearly winning in the end, Vex proves to be the craftiest foe Sackboy's faced yet.
- Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Dual Destinies: Aura Blackquill is the older sister of Simon, who deals with Robotics at the Cosmos Space Center. Having lost her lover Metis Cykes to the Phantom, and her brother to a false conviction, Aura loses faith in the courts and decides to take justice into her own hands by manipulating Apollo Justice and Chief Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth into having a retrial with the person she thought was responsible, Athena Cykes as the defendant, through a robot rebellion, having programmed several of her and Metis' robots into kidnapping several hostages, including Trucy Wright. Despite being proven wrong by Phoenix that Athena is the killer of Metis and Clay, her testimony about seeing the killer in the current case holding the lighter-gun in the opposite hand from where Athena's prints are, allows the protagonists to arrest the Phantom. She then gives herself up gracefully and releases the hostages, while her brother is absolved, just like Aura wanted.
- The Music Man: "Professor" Harold Hill is a Con Man who convinces towns into buying instruments and uniforms with the promise to form a boy's marching band before leaving with the money. When arriving in River City, Iowa, he starts his con by convincing the town that the recent pool table in the billiards parlor will corrupt the youth and the only way to save them is by forming the marching band. When Mayor Shinn or the school board try and ask for his credentials, Hill manages to distract them by leading them in Barbershop Quartets. He also manages to win good will of the librarian Marian Paroo after the band helps her brother Winthrop overcome his self-consciousness. The interactions in River City, as well as his relationship with Marian, start to convince Hill to abandon his life of crime and go legit. At the end of the musical, the good will the band brought convinces the townsfolk to overturn his arrest, and Hill manages to find his conscience because of the band.
- Hamlet: King Claudius, in many productions, is depicted as a more respectable figure than the stereotypical overambitious royal. Taking advantage of his skill at murdering in ways that give him Plausible Deniability, he kills his brother by poisoning him and making it look like a snakebite, then subsequently marries his brother's widow Queen Gertrude and claims the Danish throne. A charming conversationalist with considerable language skills, he manages to secure the support of nearly the entire court. Spying on his nephew Prince Hamlet, he determines he's planning something and arranges for him to be sent to England on a diplomatic assignment, later plotting to have him killed after he determines he's too dangerous to live. When Laertes returns from France and tries to overthrow him, Claudius manages to get him on his side and rope him into another attempt on Hamlet's life. Only being exposed and killed due to Laertes seeking forgiveness before he dies, and still managing to end Hamlet's life, Claudius demonstrates why he's one of Shakespeare's most iconic and enduring villains.
- Alba Salix
: Royal Physician: Aten-Aben is a bombastic, malevolent, demon who proves to be a far more dangerous threat than anything Alba has faced before. Summoned by Queen Parabel to turn her unborn son into a girl, he instead offers to turn the child into a powerful mage so that, "the land of his birth shall never fall to its enemies," before also enchanting a nearby Magnus. Aten-Aben then crashes a party Parabel is attending and reveals his true plan. The enchantment on Magnus causes the entire building to be pulled between Planes to his hell kingdom where he'll raise the child and conquer all of Hell with his magic, pointing out that he never specified that Farloria would be the land of his birth. When Alba tries to stop him, he reveals that the baby's magic was drained from the rest of his family, leaving Alba powerless to stop him, taking King Gunther hostage to ensure Parabel and Alba’s compliance. When Alba manages to defeat him and throw him into the Planar Convergence, he reveals that even without him, the building will maintain its course and the child will still be born in Hell.
- Ghost Teller: "A Story from Afar": Runia is an ambitious girl who dreams of stardom. Taking advantage of a fight that occurs between her friends Taejun and Shinhoo which leaves Taejun dead and Shinhoo gravely injured, Runia helps cover for Shinhoo by putting the blame completely on Taejun. Figuring she can use this to become famous, Runia leaks footage of Taejun and Shinhoo fighting to the press and gets them interested in her, with her playing the part of charismatic victim to lure in an audience to allow her dreams of fame to come true. Runia even thanks her friend Shinhoo as he's dying in the hospital for giving her an opportunity, and promises to keep his secrets to the end.
- Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory: Once used in a brutal war crime by her Zeon superiors, Cima Garahau ended adrift with her fleet, resorting to piracy to survive. Upon learning of Aigulle Delaz's attempt to revive Zeon with Operation Stardust, Cima joined Delaz and his right-hand man Anavel Gato while plotting to betray them. Secretly plotting alongside the Federation, Cima lured Delaz's forces into a trap to end Operation Stardust, plotting to also secure the safety of the Cima Fleet, finally executing Delaz when he refused to yield and using military force to try to stop Gato's Colony Drop.
- Boba Fett, the son of Jango, rises from an orphaned child to become the finest Bounty Hunter in the galaxy. Proving his worth as a boy by setting up traps for Mace Windu and the monstrous Durge, Boba is known for his brilliant career in which he has faced countless opponents, even surviving battles with Darth Vader through his intelligence. Hired to destroy the Bounty Hunter Guild, Boba infiltrates it, starts the Bounty Hunter Wars and manages to profit for it. Hired to capture the monstrous pirate Bar-Koods, Boba seeks a bounty on a magician named Magwit once held captive by Bar-Kooda and arranges for Magwit to lure Bar-Kooda into a trap. Upon escaping the Sarlaac, Boba allows the galaxy to think he's dead while rebuilding his reputation, eventually rising to lead the Mandalorians and connecting with his long-lost granddaughter Mirta Gev, being known throughout the galaxy by one single title: "The Best".
- The Alpha Vampire is one of the oldest monsters in existence and the progenitor of the entire vampire race, whom he considers his "children". When captured by a group of hunters, the Alpha taunts his captors and easily escapes. Later returning after having forged an alliance with the Leviathans, the Alpha accepts Sam and Dean's warning that his new allies are planning on backstabbing him, gifting them his blood to use as part of a weapon. The Alpha finally infiltrates and nearly destroys the British Men of Letters when they attempt to wipe out all vampires in America, gracefully conceding his defeat when outmaneuvered by Sam. One of the most dignified and intelligent monsters in the series, the Alpha proved to be a formidable foe.
- Final Fantasy XV: Chancellor Ardyn "Izunia", true name Ardyn Lucis Caelum, poses as a "man of no consequence", but is far older and far more devious than he initially seems. Working for the Empire of Niflheim, Ardyn oversees the invasion of Lucis' capital city Insomnia, where he fatally stabs heroine Luna as she summons Leviathan and allowing the Starscourage affliction to run rampant and turning many of the residents of Altissia into monstrous Daemons. After nearly tricking his nemesis, Prince Noctis "Noct" Lucis Caelum, into killing his best friend, Ardyn turns on Niflheim, allowing the Daemons to assail their cities and converting others into more Daemons. Ardyn also reveals he taught Niflheim the technique to transform people into living weapons to begin with and puts in place a series of machinations to transform Noct into the "Chosen King" so Ardyn may destroy him. In the Dawn of the Future epilogue novel Ardyn manages to outplay even the gods themselves, sacrificing his life to turn the power of the line of Lucis upon the tyrannical Bahamut. Rejected long ago by the very land he served and saved, Ardyn's endless, witty charm and ability to manipulate events in his own favor make him one of the most memorable villains in the Final Fantasy franchise.
- Disney
- The New Order: Last Days of Europe
Edited by 43110 on Dec 18th 2020 at 10:45:52 AM
Is the Ghost Teller entry missing?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."![]()
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Oop, don't forget the NateWantsToBattle Entry I did a while back!
- NateWantsToBattle's "The Phantom
" from Paid in Exposure: The titular Phantom, heavily implied to be the Devil himself, is a smooth, charming demon who makes deals with people. He relentlessly stalks them into taking up a deal, and, either out of fair sportsmanship or reverse phycology, leave clues as to how risky the deal is, while still playing up the benefits, leaving the client with a choice. The music video shows him in action, effortlessly charming a struggling stage magician into signing his contract, then taking his soul when all is said and done.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 17th 2020 at 11:35:06 AM
Oh, and there's also my Catwoman writeup as well.
- Batman: The Brave and the Bold: The Video Game (2010): Catwoman is the mastermind behind the game's first "Episode", working together with supervillain Catman to turn the city of Gotham into cats so they could rob the city of its riches. Having Catman distract Batman and Robin with a robbery while she sets up the plan, she first makes herself known by swiftly rescuing Catman from the duo with a stun bomb. Being chased by the heroes, she manages to lure them to an abandoned building, using its crumbling interior to her advantage before blowing the building up with Batman and Robin inside it, the two only surviving due to luck. Sending goons to check if the heroes are alive, she and Catman successfully transform the city and take refuge in Wayne Manor, before taking on the Dynamic Duo one last time, only being beaten by the secret entrances scattered around.
Anywho, odd subject, but I'll be busy looking at the cutscenes for the LEGO Batman games. If LEGO Marvel Super Heroes can have one, then there's no harm in checking these out.
Right, sorry. Though I can't find it on the actual show's page, which shares a page with the Video Game.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 17th 2020 at 12:20:01 PM
Damn, I almost forgot my Claudius writeup. Here it is:
- Hamlet: King Claudius, in many productions, is depicted as a more respectable figure than the stereotypical overambitious royal. Taking advantage of his skill at murdering in ways that give him Plausible Deniability, he kills his brother by poisoning him and making it look like a snakebite, then subsequently marries his brother's widow Queen Gertrude and claims the Danish throne. A charming conversationalist with considerable language skills, he manages to secure the support of nearly the entire court. Spying on his nephew Prince Hamlet, he determines he's planning something and arranges for him to be sent to England on a diplomatic assignment, later plotting to have him killed after he determines he's too dangerous to live. When Laertes returns from France and tries to overthrow him, Claudius manages to get him on his side and rope him into another attempt on Hamlet's life. Only being exposed and killed due to Laertes' sudden change of heart, and still managing to end Hamlet's life, Claudius demonstrates why he's one of Shakespeare's most iconic and enduring villains.
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Dec 17th 2020 at 12:12:41 PM
Thanks, I'll add it in a sec! Might just wanna switch the pothole in his name? It's just kinda confusing having "King" tagged as The Evil Prince.
So any potential quotes for The New Order: Last Days of Europe? I mean I'm not super familiar with the work, but there has to be one somewhere.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Wary, do you have any counter arguments on Aura Blackquill? You've played every Ace Attorney game, so I'd kind of like to hear your thoughts on the existing and to be approved examples.
I'm a little surprised she got upvoted, since her plans aren't as grandiose as say, Calisto Yew.
Also, this isn't Complete Monster where the character has to be 100% serious. We approved Fawful, and I don't think you'd have a problem with him, as he does get serious when he needs to, very competent at what he does, and compared to the likes of say, Bowser, he's a far more serious threat. Bowser has undergone so much Villain Decay Mario basically thinks "Mama mia, But for Me, It Was Tuesday!" compared to the likes of Fawful, who Mario accepts as a genuine threat, right up there with King Boo, and other darker Mario villains.
Edited by Klavice on Dec 17th 2020 at 12:54:18 PM