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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#3126: Jul 29th 2018 at 3:25:16 PM

Oh, yeah. The Total Drama series is pretty much Crosses the Line Twice when it comes to everyone, isn't it?

Well, except that M dude, but that's a different can of worms.

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3127: Jul 29th 2018 at 4:19:50 PM

@ Ghazghull: [tup]. Wow, I can't believe the first MB of Warhammer 40000 post-cleanup is an Ork

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#3128: Jul 29th 2018 at 4:27:25 PM

@Erazor, Not really. Stuff like Duncan cheating on his own girlfriend, Heather causing a volatile break up between Gwen and Trent, and Scarlett attempting to blow up Pahiktew Island are play dead seriously.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3129: Jul 29th 2018 at 7:00:55 PM

So whats your new opinion Alejandro on wether he should get cut or keep. Here's the page link about him.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#3130: Jul 29th 2018 at 7:36:59 PM

[tup] Ghazghkull (really, an Ork?)

[tup] Thomas Crown

—-

About Alejandro, he ends up the victim of a fair amount of Karmic Humilliation. However, his manipulations are played seriously and he is a favorite villain of mine.

Said this. I haven't watched All Stars to see how he fared it there. But damn that in the original series Alejandro received a fair amount of Karma at the end.

Abstain so far, because now I am genuinely torn about it. All Stars seem to treat him with dignity even after his humilliations in World Tour.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 29th 2018 at 9:38:04 AM

Watch me destroying my country
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3131: Jul 29th 2018 at 8:20:18 PM

Well during Alejandro run in All Stars, he's first appears as The Drama Machine before escaping said machine with the help of sharks. He spends the first half of All Stars walking on his hands before eliminating Heather as vengeance for humiliating him. He then encounters a Disc containing Mal's treachery, but is eliminated by Mal before he can warn anyone. Luckily he hid the Disc in one of Chris paintings which Zoey soon discovers as well as Mal's identity. Alejandro appears once more in the finale alongside Heather as Mal's helpers, but gets little characterization other than be Sickening Sweethearts with Heater before they go at each other's throats again. He is then last seen being chased around by a four legged shark named Fang. Hope thats helpful?

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 29th 2018 at 6:31:04 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3132: Jul 30th 2018 at 12:45:13 AM

From Dragon Ball Z: The Tree of Might

  • Magnificent Bastard: Practically the only other villain in all of DBZ who comes as close to achieving their goals as Turles does is Cell.

Uh not feeling it tbh. He just comes off as kinda boring. Anyone can ep if they like though.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 30th 2018 at 12:45:04 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#3133: Jul 30th 2018 at 5:23:43 AM

Alejandro meets all the general requirements for this trope. He's a chessmaster, he's charming, speaks well educated, doesn't suffer any major Villainous Breakdowns and even succeeds in his goal of winning TDWT in his ending, only losing the money because it was burned in a volcano. Even in All Stars he is still competent. Idoling out Heather and even being one of the most prominent threats to Big Bad, Mal. Magnificent!

He is without a doubt a bastard but not too much so. He seems to have a bit of honor as I said about his family code, has standards (he disapproves with Mal's acts), isn't pointlessly evil (just about everything he does serves a purpose) and genuinely loves Heather. Bastard!

I don't find him to be really a Smug Snake. 8 times out of 10 Alejandro backs up his boasts. Alejandro fits Awesome Ego because while he has a fair ego....he IS a Master of All so it is kind of understandable.

He is a serious villain. The over the top karma doesn't diminish the threat he poses in the slightest.

He is a keep imo.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3134: Jul 30th 2018 at 7:28:06 AM

Way too much disagreement from people who have seen the show on both sides, I'm switching to abstain until I happen to see it myself.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#3135: Jul 30th 2018 at 7:52:32 AM

[up] Not meant to be rude but I actually saw Amu Yunos' writeup getting a greenlight on Video Games page but not on Brave Frontier YMMV page...Wonder why though?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#3136: Jul 30th 2018 at 7:54:26 AM

[tup] The cool Ork guy.

Switching to abstain on Alejandro.

I seem to be on a roll. Here’s my next MB waifu!

When did I lose all my dignity?

What is the work?

Jak X Combat Racing is a game set after Jak 3. As Crash Team Racing is to Crash Bandicoot, Jak X is to Jak and Daxter. Kind of.

The plot of the game is that Jak and his friends are called in to read the will of deceased villainous gangster Krew. And Krew poisons them all because he’s a dick. Well, actually, he did so to blackmail them into winning a race tournament for him that he claims was his dream but in reality is to win a bet with rival Mizo to take all his assets.

Krew even poisoned his own daughter Rayn!

Which is exactly what he wants us to think.

Rayn is far more devious than she initially seems –

And is my newest candidate.

Who is Rayn? What has Rayn done?

Rayn begins the game by showing Krew’s will and pouring poisoned wine for the heroes to drink – herself included. However, Krew gave her instructions to avoid being poisoned. Rayn brilliantly plays the part of the naïve daughter, with only Ashelin being suspicious throughout the game.

As the story continues, Rayn “discovers” other aspects of Krew’s plan, painting herself as a betrayed and sympathetic daughter. She also starts racing herself, saying she wants to leave nothing to chance.

After Mizo is revealed to be obnoxious announcer GT Blitz, Rayn reveals that the whole operation was to flush him out, since Rayn and Krew did not know Mizo’s true identity.

Jak and his team win the tournament and Krew’s bet against Mizo, receiving the antidote to the poison. Rayn leaves the heores – with the holo containing Krew’s plan, intentionally revealing her true self. Rayn drives away scot free, ordering a meeting with all other crime bosses and boasting that she won’t be as “soft” as her father – while at the same time ordering Jak and friends be left alone. See, she says still sees them as her friends – though she doubts they feel the same.

Is she magnificent?

While Rayn did not come up with the plan, she executed it flawlessly. Only Ashelin suspected her, and Rayn never broke character even when Ash threatened her, demanding the antidote. She strings the heroes along and wins everything she wanted.

Is she a thot?

Rayn poisons, blackmails and lies to get what she wants and has ambitions of becoming an even greater crime lord than her father.

Is she too much of a thot?

She never does anything really horrible – especially compared to Krew and the general Jak heinous standard – and ultimately holds up her end of the antidote bargain, having no intention of ever hurting her new friends. She even came clean with them, albeit not to their faces.

At one point, Mizo reveals Jak killed Krew, and it’s unclear if Rayn already knew this. She acts angry, but by the end of the game she doesn’t seem to hold it against Jak anymore, if she ever did. This shows her affection for Jak and perhaps suggests a certain degree of honour? I mean, Krew did try and kill Jak. But now I speculate.

She claims she’ll be worse than Krew – and Mizo seems to agree prior to his death – but she never does anything really bad in game and spares Jak and friends.

Is she charming?

She is pleasant, affable, strong willed and happy to put herself in danger if it will benefit her. She’s never smug and has a British accent.

Yes, that is important.

Any competition?

Not much. Kor, the Big Bad of Jak II was devious and his reveal was a real good twist, but is too cruel and lacks real charm plus he has greater resources and Krew is too fat, gross, greedy and obviously treacherous. No one was surprised when Krew betrayed Jak. I, for one, was surprised when Rayn was outed.

There's Count Veger I guess.

He gets turned into an Otsel and becomes the pet of a fat Hate Sink.

...yeah. No. Even ignoring how much of a DICK he is.

Conclusion

I think she counts. I await one and all’s votes.

I am particularly interested in Scraggle and Ravok's thoughts, since they are also Jak fans.

Weird to think the only candidate I can think of is the racing spin off. Maybe there's someone from the other games I'm forgetting, but

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#3137: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:58:30 AM

[tup] to Rayn

Anyways, since I've been skimming Maken-Ki lately and after some deliberation...I think there's someone that I need to bring to cut IMO but feel free to refute my statements if you want to. This is from the YMMV page of Maken-Ki:

  • Magnificent Bitch: Otohime may be a coward, but she's smart enough to learn from past mistakes, so the same tactics can't be used against her twice. During the Okino Island arc, Takeru's "Drive Duo" was able to nullify the Black Element she used to mind control the islanders. So Otohime devised an alternate form of mind control that doesn't use Black Element, rendering Takeru's Maken ability useless. And the first ones she used it on were the Four Pillars of Tenbi, which includes Love Espada. Thereby turning her enemies' strongest group of ability users into her own elite squad.

Ok, where do I even begin with her. Yes, she's smart and learns from her past mistakes (I'm on Chapter 70 btw). However, I can't overlook the fact that she has a putrid atmosphere surrounding her. Like her being a Smug Snake in earlier chapters and later chapters, her condescending behavior even after having a Humiliation Conga by got her butt spanked in chapter 46 iirc and some of her earlier crimes being a bit revolting especially where she accused a guy being a Sexual Harasser and turning him into a doll (Now the guy probably deserve it but still...I think it was more into Otohime who blames him from what I recall). So yeah, you can tell that I'll probably make a case but I still think she's a cut mainly due to her negative aura surrounding her. Heck, I felt that Akaya and Idaten (I haven't read past into chapter 70 but I look at his character pages) was much more magnificent compared to her so yeah..

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 30th 2018 at 11:02:19 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#3138: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:23:47 AM

Yes to Rayn, gimme a bit Elfen, I had a lot to do last week and it probably got missed due to volume, I wasn't being malicious.

[down] Go ahead

Edited by 43110 on Jul 30th 2018 at 12:26:52 PM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#3139: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:24:58 AM

[up] Ah sorry about that...I'll be waiting patiently. Also, permission to cut Otohime from Maken-Ki?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#3140: Jul 30th 2018 at 9:37:25 AM

[tup]rayn

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#3143: Jul 30th 2018 at 3:06:31 PM

[tup]To the Rain Storm

If anyone wishes to reserve Utawarerumono Zan, it's up for grabs.

IPP Wick Check created.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#3145: Jul 30th 2018 at 4:11:54 PM

@ 43110: If you have Netflix, it has Total Drama: All Stars if you want to see Alejandro in that season

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 30th 2018 at 1:32:02 AM

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Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#3147: Jul 30th 2018 at 8:08:02 PM

Enthusiastic "yes" to Rayn. Great job, Polar!

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#3148: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:47:48 PM

I got another one. Adrian Chase/Prometheus from Arrow. He used to be listed but got cut at some point. Here's the lowdown:

Who is Adrian Chase?

Born Simon Morrison and the Bastard Bastard son of a Corrupt Corporate Executive who was killed offscreen during Season 1 by Oliver Queen/The Hood. Growing up he changed his name to Adrian Chase and devoted his life to getting revenge on Oliver. He worked his way up into the ranks of District Attorney of Star City around the same time Oliver became mayor, where he became one of Oliver's most trusted allies. At the same time, he secretly adopted the guise of the villainous vigilante/Serial Killer known as Prometheus, who served as an anti-Green Arrow and strived to worked to undo everything that Oliver had tried to achieve.

He starts off by going on a killing spree of innocent people whose names were anagrams of those on "The List" (Oliver's victims he had killed 5 years ago as Knight Templar). Then he works to tear Team Arrow apart, targeting all of Oliver's friends and family, with special mention to turning Evelyn to the dark side and having her be The Mole. Then he sought to break Oliver in every way he could: destroying his reputation, physically torturing him, and convincing Oliver that he ruined the lives of everyone around him.

His end-game was to kidnap all of Team Arrow and Oliver's family, bringing them to Lian Yu to have them executed. Oliver is forced to recruit many of his past enemies to help him take down Adrian and rescue his friends. In his final moments, Adrian gives Oliver a Sadistic Choice, by holding Oliver's son William hostage and revealing he was hooked to a Dead Man Switch which would cause the island to blow up with and all of Oliver's friends on it. He can either save his son and kill his friends, or save his friends and let his son die. Oliver tries to take a third option by disabling Adrian, to which Adrian proceeds to shoot himself for Oliver's trouble.

How do his actions and personality show he is a Magnificent Bastard?

He tells Oliver he is always "ten steps ahead" which is very accurate. He's one of the most thorough chessmasters to ever appear in the Arroverse, having planned out everything that has happened from the moment he revealed himself to Oliver to his death. He's also an exceptional Manipulative Bastard who manages to earn the trust of everyone before The Reveal of who he really was, being the Big Bad Friend that infuriated Oliver when he learned he got played.

The most outstanding examples include: Manipulating Oliver into killing Billy Malone the late boyfriend of Felicity Smoak, by putting Billy into a Prometheus costume and baiting Oliver into killing him. Turning Evelyn Sharp against Oliver and recruiting her as his own protegee while she serves as The Mole for her former team. Making Oliver declare the Green Arrow to be a criminal and turning the whole city against his own superhero alter-ego, by putting Oliver into the tightspot of corruption accusations as mayor. Torturing Oliver so badly to point where he was thoroughly broken and lost his will to continue being a vigilante, and forcibly making Oliver realize he killed people "because he liked it." Also the aforementioned Sadistic Choice Dead Man Switch he pulled at his death. In a Pragmatic Villain example he was also a very skillful attorney in bailing John Diggle out of prison through Loop Hole Abuse.

He's even able to turn defeats into victories, as when Team Arrow finally managed to expose Adrian as Prometheus, this in-turn lead all of his cases to be invalidated and all of the criminals he locked up to run free on the streets once more.

Is he a Bastard? Too much a bastard?

Absolutely. He's dedicated his entire existence to destroying one hero in every way possible, we're talking Batman-Joker levels of obsession here. While he does sort of have a Freudian Excuse, ultimately that got blown aside too as he knew his father never loved him and still didn't care. He also killed his own Morality Pet just to emphasize he's cut all ties with humanity.

There is nothing remotely redeeming or sympathetic about this guy. The one and only way to stop him is to put him in the ground.

Verdict?

This guy is the textbook definition of this trope. Bring in the upvotes cool

Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 31st 2018 at 5:50:24 AM

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#3149: Jul 30th 2018 at 11:54:48 PM

[tup] Rayn

[tdown] Turles. Cut him, not sure why that guy was ever listed. The only manipulation he ever did was making Oozaru Gohan fight Goku. Otherwise he's just the run of the mill "really strong bad guy"

Edited by Snowy66 on Jul 30th 2018 at 11:54:53 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#3150: Jul 31st 2018 at 3:14:32 AM

[tdown] Turles. Not manipulative enough.

Was a verdict ever made for the Slade discussion? I feel he is one of those rare crosses between this trope and CM.


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