During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread
for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
She's also somewhat humiliated in the process. Like being dragged by a horse for miles and then just nearly getting sold into prostitution is a textbook example of Humiliation Conga. The cherry on top is when she comes back and tries to seduce the Queen, she's brushed off for looking gross.
Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 5:35:53 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Yeah. That as well. I forgot about that part of it. So ultimately Sarah also doesn't count.
Edited by Bullman on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:45:42 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadAs someone who's a big fan of the Favourite...I was planning on E Ping Abigail soon and I think she qualifies. Yes, the ending shows her having a Pyrrhic Victory where for all her advancements she's still ultimately just a servant of the queen forced to pleasure her...but she still won. Everything she was aiming for in the beginning; the power and status that was ripped away from her when her father sold her off and Sarah's status as Favourite, she 100% gets, and she does so by expertly manipulating everyone else in the film and being one of the most successful and cunning chessmasters in all of film. If Abigail can't count because of the ending that would mean pretty much every villain we have that didn't completely defeat the heroes wouldn't count either.
The only real reason I would see for Abigail not counting is that by the end she might be a bit too sociopathic and vicious about ruining Sarah's life, but I think her genuinely super tragic Freudian Excuse of being sold as a sex slave by her nobleman father to pay his gambling debts and the fact that she maintains some standards even at her worst (such as when she's poisoning Sarah and she specifically picks a poison that will only knock Sarah out when she very easily could have killed her and benefited more) are enough to make her a solid keep.
Edited by WaryHoglet on Oct 3rd 2020 at 7:53:40 AM
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Cool. I'm just one guy. If you think she counts I will hear you out. I would love for her to count. I just felt that the movie made a point that at the end she was just to in over her head and that she ultimately failed since someone will always be above her, but that was just my interpretation.
Edited by Bullman on Oct 3rd 2020 at 10:02:49 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadEhh I'm inclined to agree that Abigail doesn't count. She's completely under the queens heel. Nobody really ends the film happy. I feel like it's a classic case of Pyrrhic Victory, and Was It Really Worth It?
Edited by jjjj2 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 11:11:51 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Spalko
So because I'm in the mood let's do Growlanser. From Growlanser we got 3 candidates and I'll stick with the easiest one. We got Bryntir from Growlanser IV: Wayferer of Time.
What is the setting?
Growlanser IV: Wayfarer of Time takes place in the world of Noievarl, a land plague in war due to dispute between territories and resources and a need to be the most powerful in the world. A land where Crevanille's band of mercenaries lead by his father strive and able to make a living. However this war era eventually reach into a break point when the presence of Angels, beings who destroyed modern society many millennium returned after the rediscovery of ancient technology launching their destructive wrath.
Told by his father that it's his duty to defeat the Angels, Crevanille along with allies go on an adventure to discover the hidden lore of the Angels through the ruins of the lost civilization they destroyed and find a way to defeat them, while dealing with a full-scale war between all nations that was escalated by their presence, along with numerous shady figures running the war in the background who seem to have a connection with the Angels. Throughout this journey, Crevanille also learns about his own hidden past along with a mysterious girl named Freya and why they were required to stop the Angels. Little did Crevanille know, this past he shared with Freya involves another who's also someone trying to move things behind the scenes. First appearing as a spy for Valkania and a ruthless man who has his own agenda, they later learn he's also a key figure in stopping the Angels and their older brother figure in the past, I present Brytir.
Who is Bryntir and what does he do?
Bryntir when you first meet him is a cold yet respected instructor of the Military Academy in Dulkeheim who has a reputation as the strongest fighter assign there. While he's said to be very kindhearted to everyone around him, the main character Crevanille seemed like the only exception, asking him vague questions and dismissing him whenever they converse. However when the Military Academy end up getting invaded by the enemy kingdom of Valkanian, Bryntir was seemingly nowhere to be found and was highly suspected to be a spy for them and is wanted for treason and the deaths of some key figures in the Academy.
As it turns out, Bryntir was indeed working with Valkanian but wasn't loyal to them either, abandoning them during the war. He was using them to form his own team to help excavate the different ancient ruins around the world to gain information, jumping one allegiance to another. In one of these investigations you end up encountering him and engaging him in a fight, him using the ruins traps to his advantage before teleporting away himself and his team to safety when defeated, not before saying some cryptic advise about Crevanille's role. As you explore more ancient ruins you later find notes about important aspects in the game's lore, from the Angels to Familiars, Ancient Children, and other key figures in the on-going war, all coming from Bryntir.
You also get a warning later from Regina, Crevanille's adopted sister who seemingly got killed earlier by Vester that Bryntir is not to be trusted and he has his own scheme in play. This warning seem to hold merit since later on when you set a trap to eliminate one of the Angels, Bryntir came and attempted to kill your ally Maggie and would have succeeded if Regina didn't stop him. However when investigating the ruins further more, Crevanille and Freya began to learn more about their past and also who Bryntir really is, they were Ancient Children adopted and raze to fight the Angels, experimented with Angel Essence to shut down their Force Field, and trained in conbat. Bryntir was the oldest of the 3 and act like their brother figure throughout and his actions were all to set-up the defeat of Akyel, the main angel trying to destroy the world.
Meeting with Bryntir one more time at one of the ruins, he end up explaining their origins and why the Angels motive before Akyel suddenly came out of nowhere to explain himself. Telling them that he needs to destroy all traces of the ancient technology they have, more specifically the Summoning Spells in order to save the world in the long run, he then tries to engage them in a fight. However to Akyel's surprise, Bryntir manage to set a trap on him, deactivating his power by using his own life essence and an ancient tool the party just found before he and Crevanille's team killed Akyel. However after the battle, Bryntir's was about to shuffle to the mortal coil because he sacrificed his own life force, but used his last moments to encourage Crevanille's group before expressing his pride on him and Freya as their brother.
Is he magnificent?
Most certainly, setting up the downfall of the Angel Akyel who was a destructive force that could destroy the world by gathering information through manipulating the numerous countries at wars to get the ruins to find the ancient knowledge needed to defeat Akyel. He also subtly assist Crevanille and Freya's group to the truth of their origin, arranging Akyel's demise even if it meant being labelled a traitor and dying due to his owns sacrifice. All of this was pulled off through his sheer will, and determination.
Too much of a Bastard?
Brynthir may be a serial backstabber who has no qualms screwing over the countries he pledge loyalty, acting as a spy and later turncoat and is even willing to kill those who have no clue they are doing something wrong like Maggie, which lead to him being seen as a potential enemy because he's untrustworthy to the party especially when he did attack them, Bryntir is ultimately a man who while aggressive is only doing his best to save the world for the sake of his siblings. Because of how dire things are, Brynthir was shut off his emotions and do what is necessary even if he doesn't like it.
Final Verdict:
I personally think Brynthir is a easy keeper and a good Anti-Hero variety of Magnificent Bastard.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Oct 3rd 2020 at 8:23:44 AM
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleThe one thing I really remember about Abigail is her stepping on and squeezing one of the Queen's pet rabbits at the end, for no discernible reason other than flexing her newfound power. Which is what then leads to Anne using her as a footstool herself. So, while otherwise she might qualify, I'd have a hard time calling her magnificent. Whatever, at least it introduced me to "Skyline Pigeon".
to Bryntir I guess.
Sure there.
What's the work?
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a 2000 Wu Xia film by Ang Lee. Li Mu Bai and his best friend, Shu Lien are traveling bodyguards and adventurers with a tangled romance between them, never acting on their love due to Shu Lien having been engaged to Mu Bai's sworn brother. Retiring, Mu Bai plans to hang up his sword, the Green Destiny...Shu Lien meets the lovely Lady Jen, the daughter of a governor in an arranged marriage. Jen turns out to be a Wudan master herself, taught by Li Mu Bai's arch nemesis...Jade Fox.
Who is Jade Fox?
Played by Cheng "Queen of Swords" Pei Pei, Jade Fox is a thief and Wudan warrior who disguised herself as a nun to infiltrate the school. The master became enamored with her and she became his lover, largely so she could seduce his secrets from him. However the master was kind of sexist and wouldn't teach a woman, so Jade Fox poisoned himand stole the Wudan manual, teaching herself martial arts which she became frighteningly effective with.
Hiding out as a maid, she met 8 year old Jen and took a shine to her, teaching her martial arts. However,...Jen's potential was incredible and she soon surpassed her teacher, to the secret fury of Jade Fox even as she attempted to continue mentoring Jen. With a legacy of villainy behind her, a police officer, Tsai, whose wife she killed, hunts down Jade Fox with Mu Bai and the others. Jade Fox engages them and shows she's a brilliant fighter, disabling most of her enemies, killing Tsai before Mu Bai intervenes. Jen saves her mentor, but when Jen refuses to leave the mansion with Jade Fox and states she has surpassed her mentor, Jade Fox leaves..
When Jen becomes a wanderer herself, trying to make a name as a warrior, her confidence is destroyed by Mu Bai effortlessly besting her. Jade Fox takes the chance to rescue her, heal her and promise it's just the two of them from thereon...except? Jade Fox uses Jen as bait to draw Mu Bai and the rest out, before launching a prepared attack by firing a barrage of poison needles. Mu Bai defends against them as Jade Fox attacks, but with the Green Destiny back in hand, Mu Bai is unstoppable and slices her sword into fragments that fire back through her body before he deals a fatal blow..
Dying? Jade Fox reveals she got him with one needle and one is all it takes...but the one she was aiming for? Jen, her pupil, who had deceived her for years. "Jen. My only family. My only enemy." Just before Jade Fox slips into darkness forevermore.
How's she operate?
She remains hidden with a legacy of manipulation and murder behind her. She plants herself in a noble house, mentors Jen for years, she sets up an effective trap with Jen at the end. Cheng Pei Pei plays her with a cold charisma and undeniable effectiveness where you can feel her anger at being disdained for being a woman in the highly sexist martial arts world.
The only sticking point is how Jen surpassed her in sheer skill. She's very unhappy about this, but what genuinely seems to infuriate her most is not Jen surpassing her, but Jen lying to her about it, since she reveals she knew Jen was her equal, but remarks on a pupil "full of deceit? That is true poison!"
Is she a bastard? Too much?
Absolutely. She's a thief, murderer and criminal who's killed lots of people. That said, she gets a surprising amount of pathos I don't think would've been possible with a lesser portrayal. Her rage at being denied her due for her gender is heavy to the character and her relationship to Jen is complex. Jade Fox hates her, but still loves her in a complex fashion.
While she's certainly a very evil individual, there's enough complexity given to her to make her a well rounded villain.
Conclusion?
I say keeper.
There is an unapproved entry in the YMMV section of Snow White: A Tale of Terror.
Here's one that's been on my to-do list for a while now:
What is the work?
Dexter, a showtime series about Dexter Morgan, a blood spatter analyst for the Miami police department (specifically Metro Homicide) who moonlights as a Serial-Killer Killer who hunts down the guilty so he can kill them in a ritualistic manner. Dexter was taught how to be a "moral" serial killer by his late father Harry, while his sister Debra is also a cop who works in the same office. Dexter typically fights one Big Bad a season, often a devious Serial Killer for Dexter to match his wits with or who gets close to him and turns out to be a Big Bad Friend.
Who is Isaak Sirko? What has he done?
Isaak Sirko is a high-ranking member of The Mafiya, the Ukrainian Koshka Brotherhood. In the opening of season 7, one of the newest detectives in Miami Metro stumbles onto a Koshka member on the freeway with a dead prostitute in his trunk. This man, Viktor, kills the detective and tries to catch a plane back to Ukraine before Dexter finds him and kills him. Sirko, who had been expecting Viktor, travels to Miami when he discovers that Viktor never checked in, surprising his underling George. Meanwhile, the Miami PD is performing constant raids on the KB strip clubs to uncover the Cop Killer, unaware of Dexter's actions. This complicates things for the KB, since they also smuggle heroin, but their mules can't move any product with the cops watching their every move. Seeing that Detective Quinn has taken a liking to the Hooker with a Heart of Gold stripper Nadia, Sirko instructs Nadia to spy on Quinn to uncover more about the investigation, telling her that her name (Nadezhda) reminds him of a Russian singer he used to love as a boy, but implicitly warning her that failure will not be tolerated. He also visits one of their bartenders, a worker from Ukraine, promising to pay his family a huge sum of money if he agrees to kill himself and serve as a patsy so the police will close their investigation. He's completely cordial throughout this exchange, sincerely promising to take care of his family and calmly guiding him through it.
Sirko has their IT guy brought in to rework the GPS of a bracelet that one of their mules was carrying (and taken by Viktor) to discover that he was murdered and dumped in the ocean. When Sirko and his men inspect Dexter's boat, they find Louis Greene instead, a Jerkass who was beefing with Dexter. Sirko interrogates him by threatening to use a drill on his head, learning of Dexter's identity before shooting Louis. Sirko breaks into Dexter's house awaiting to kill him when he shows up, but Dexter catches on and manages to lure him away with a faked voice message. They have a talk over the phone, discovering they have both done plenty of research on each other. Later, Sirko follows Dexter again in his car, but Dexter manages to lure him into a Bad Guy Bar belonging to his Colombian rivals. However, Sirko promptly kills all three men despite being outgunned and outmanned. His blood does tie him to these murders, so he is briefly locked up, warning Dexter that he's willing to wait for decades to plan his revenge. He doesn't stay there long, having his underling George threaten Quinn to steal the evidence against him so the case quickly falls apart.
Now a free man again, Sirko continues his vendetta against Dexter, which causes George to contact Sirko's bosses in Kiev to sanction a hit on him to avoid more police scrutiny. Dexter accidentally runs into and kills one of these hitmen in Sirko's apartment, who calls the police so he can share some banter with Dexter himself. Dexter tracks him down later, only to find Sirko in a gay bar! Turns out, Sirko is a Gayngster and Viktor was his lover and the only thing that made his life worthwhile, which is why he was so hellbent on vengeance. He does appreciate the irony that he always expected to be killed for this at some point, but his bosses remain none the wiser despite ordering his death.
Sirko is forced into an Enemy Mine with Dexter, kidnapping his new girlfriend Hannah McKay to force him to deal with two dangerous hitmen sent after him. Dexter kills the first by surprising him on a gun range by sliding a knife into his back, the second after becoming bait to lure him to a shipyard where Sirko can shoot him from behind. Unfortunately, George shows up not much later and shoots Sirko after the latter tells him to Get It Over With, who dies after sharing some parting words with Dexter.
How do his actions and personality show he is a Magnificent Bastard?
Sirko is easily the most charming and Affably Evil of Dexter's enemies, and quite possibly the most dangerous. He's always polite, doesn't hold grudges, manages to convince Dexter into an Enemy Mine, and his motive throughout this entire thing is to avenge his dead lover. He's a very dangerous hitman, easily taking out several rival gangsters after Dexter lures him into a trap (Sirko, being out of town, didn't know all of his enemies' safehouses), but also quite calculating. When the Colombians later confront him in jail, he grabs the hand of their captain, slowly breaking it while calmly explaining delayed gratification to him, calling himself a businessman who can't afford to act impulsively.
Sirko is a mobster who is involved with various illegal enterprises such as heroin smuggling and sex trafficking and murder, but Dexter's other enemies are much worse. The Ice Truck Killer is a warped Serial Killer with a Freudian Excuse, Miguel Prado is a prideful manipulator with a very petty streak, George King is a Torture Technician who ikes to slowly flay his victims and murders a child without flinching, Trinity is a malignant narcissist and sadist who wallows in self-pity while sucking the very life out of his own family with his endless abuse of them, Jordan Chase is a sociopathic control freak who gets off on goading others into committing numerous prolongued gang rapes, etc. And that's leaving out all the minor Asshole Victims who are targeted by Dexter almost every episode. By contract, Sirko commits all his crimes dispassionately and does not revel in violence. He's even willing to let bygones be bygones with Dexter, pointing out that he's a man of his word and acts like a Consummate Professional, also valuing the loyalty of his men.
Mitigating Factors?
Near the end, Dexter does confront Sirko when he brings up Viktor's death being Dexter's fault, when Dexter counters that Sirko sent Viktor to the US in the first place where he would be in over his head. While Sirko's beleaguered reaction does indicate he thinks that Dexter has a point and that he shares some blame in Viktor's death, he recovers from this fairly quickly and later chooses to Face Death with Dignity.
One scene that also gave me pause is not about Sirko per se, but his underling George. While he's blackmailing Detective Quinn, bribing him with money and recording their conversations, he threatens to have the stripper Nadia sent to a whorehouse in Dubai, gloating that she'll "last a few weeks before she'll slit her wrists". While this is pretty bad and it could be argued that Sirko in some way profits from this, the Koshka Brotherhood is not run by him. Sirko is a high-level member, but his own bosses later put out a hit on him when he steps out of line. In an earlier scene, Sirko himself corrals Nadia into becoming their spy, and is positively cordial, calmly explaining what he wants her to do, sharing a fond childhood memory, and promising a reward.
Verdict?
All things considered, I think he's an easy keeper. He almost seems like an out-of-genre character who strolled out of some glitzy gangster film and into a dark Serial Killer story like Dexter.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Oct 4th 2020 at 8:13:57 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Jade and Isaak
So I got another candidate to put up from Growlanser IV: Wayferer of Time and one I'm just as confident as Bryntir. This time we got someone from Valkanian, one of the Royal Guard member himself, Bernhart Muntzer.
Who is Bernhart Muntzer and what does he do?
A member of the Royal Guard, the elitist of the elites in Valkanian, Sir Muntzer when you first encounter him invading the Military Academy of Dulkeheim makes himself known as a man you at that point had no hope in defeating. A clever tactical genius in the art of combat, Muntzer manage to outsmart the entire Dulkeheim army using diversion by taking advantage of the fog to fool the main force into thinking a massive army is invading them when it was just a decoy, and then sneaking into the base to eliminate some key members before pretending to retreat to set an ambush to capture a Ruin Child anticipating that one of them will pursuit his force, successfully capturing Vallery. With Vallery in custody, unlike the other members of his force, Muntzer treated his prisoner as an equal, which eventually won him over.
Appearing later when going to Valkanian after escaping from Dulkeheim's horrific experiments towards you and your comrades, Muntzer at first thought you were enemies who managed to sneak to Valkanian, but relented after learning what really occurred. When a legion of bounty hunter took a woman hostage and ordered Muntzer to kill the party for them, Muntzer complied but secretly told them to hide behind a rock while he attacks them before launching a trap on the bounty hunters, saving the hostage before killing the bounty hunters.
However when the Valkanian King decided to take advantage of the war by trying to plunder Marquelay of its resources and wealth, Muntzer end up becoming enemies with the party due to his undying loyalty to his majesty despite knowing he's mad for attacking another kingdom despite being currently in war with Dulkeheim. When another of the Royal Guards, Alfonse Ordinale, head of the Ordineil decided to turn on Valkanian to protect the people of Marquelay, Muntzer help lead a charge against Marquelay with the aide of Vallery and Diana. For most of the fight, Muntzer and Valkanian army had the upper hand in the battle even putting the well-respected commander Alfonse in a corner, but with the unexpected power of Crevanille's group as well as Supreme General Ludwig of Dulkeheim turning the tables on Valkanian's forces through the use of Summoning Spells given to him by Vester, Valkanian then became the losing force, with Muntzer meeting his defeat at the hands of Crevanille and Alfonse at the final battle in the bother between Marquelay and Valkanian. Depending on the player's decision, Muntzer will survive his final battle and leave the conflict out of injury and for his adoptive daughter, or succumb to his wounds from the heroes.
Is he Magnificent?
Most certainly, in every battle he was in Muntzer was very successful, managing to capture Vallery, saving a hostage from a group of bount hunters, and control the tide of war for the most part until Crevanille an unknown factor went against him, Muntzer for the most part is one magnificent tactician and commander.
Too Much of a Bastard?
I'll admit my doubt about Muntzer is if he could be considered a bastard considering he's the only real evil thing is he's an enemy general and other then that for how quiet he is, he's actually a very kind-hearted man who treats his men well. However when thinking about, Muntzer is fully compliant with fighting for a king who he knows is attacking an allied country and raiding their resources, and even went as willing to try completely annihilate the settlement of one his former Royal Guards with the use of a Spell Cannon. So I do think being a willing champion for a man like that, and how aggressive he can be, he's willing to kill trainees and have his men invade a village if ordered too, I do think he qualifies as one despite actually being a good person deep down.
Final Verdict:
My 2nd candidate for Growlanser IV: Wayfarer of Time and hopefully I can get my 3rd one propose soon.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Oct 4th 2020 at 8:47:28 AM
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle

Edited by Bullman on Oct 3rd 2020 at 4:18:38 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread