TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#251: May 10th 2018 at 6:59:18 AM

[up]So uh something like this:

Where we use the main franchise they come from but pothole to th were name to there character page.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#253: May 10th 2018 at 7:06:07 AM

Okay, taking a gander at this... not going to as active here as the CM thread, I don't think, but I'll do my best to chip in. That said, I've got one easy cut from Film:

  • Jenner, from The Secret of NIMH. He's Faux Affably Evil, as well as very competent, being one of the most successful movie villains in history, seeing how he succeeds in killing Nicodemus by cutting one of the ropes used to carry Mrs. Brisby's home to another location and causing the house to drop, drag him with it, and crush him under its weight. And not only that, he makes it look like an accident so that no one suspects his evil deed. Now, had he focused his attention on Mrs. Brisby warning the other rats of NIMH about exterminators coming to kill them, as well as Sullivan telling Justin about his plans, he would've gotten away with his plan to prevent the rats from moving to Thorn Valley.

Okay, awful, awful hyperbole about Jenner being "one of the most successful villains in movie history" aside? This entry's always bothered me. Jenner's a high-functioning Smug Snake with one successful murder that fools the protagonists for maybe about ten minutes at most. He completely lacks the charisma to keep his reluctant minion Sullivan on his side (damningly, Jenner is trying to force him to cut the rope that would kill Nicodemus through violence and Sullivan still can't do it) or even enough to better himself to the rats of NIMH (where Justin implies he has the reputation of a whiny protester), and he completely fails the "thinking on your feet" clause as well. When Mrs. Brisby points out NIMH is coming to Thorn Valley? Jenner tries for maybe half a second to defend himself before flipping his shit and trying to murder everyone on the premises, voluntarily revealing himself as the mastermind to Justin (who figures it out anyways) in the throes of a Villainous Breakdown prompted by the first challenge to his scheme.

I don't know, maybe he could have had a better shot if he didn't eat the Villain Ball at the end, but as is? Cut him. With extreme prejudice.

edited 10th May '18 7:06:52 AM by Scraggle

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#254: May 10th 2018 at 7:08:18 AM

No one was disputing that the work page needs to be linked to. We simply noted that for a number of the comic book examples, their character page is their work page. That's why Darkseid's CM entry, to pick one example, simply opens with Darkseid, rather than a link to JLA or New Gods or what have you: his crimes are too varied and take place across too many different comics for one series to be considered his "home". This is something that Fighteer himself acknowledged as acceptable here (emphasis mine):

The source can be an individual work, a series, a franchise, a "character-as-franchise" article in the Comic Book namespace, etc, but it should be formatted per our style rules, no exceptions.

Which means the only write-ups so far that needs an alteration are those for Mandarin and Sinestro, since they don't have their own comic page. Ra's, Luthor, Doom, and Kingpin all have their own articles, which are already linked to at the start of their write-ups.

Regarding cuts, get rid of Jenner, Sinister, Claremont, and Cyclops obviously. Shaw is usually a Smug Snake, not an MB, he's another case of "might count in an individual story but not in general." And purge those GOT entries; that no one is smart enough to really control events is kind of the point.

edited 10th May '18 7:20:39 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#255: May 10th 2018 at 7:23:34 AM

Having talked this one over with Ambar, I think he's right on the formatting and has said he'll modify the two characters that need it. Thanks for chiming in Scraggs and please purge that entry with hellfire!

[down][down] Thanks bro and I'll take care of lock requests on Sunday, along with requesting the batch go up.

edited 10th May '18 7:57:18 AM by 43110

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#256: May 10th 2018 at 7:28:44 AM

Already made the alterations to Mandarin and Sinestro. The others already meet the formatting guidelines, same as the similar entries under CM do. Luthor, Kingpin, Doom, and Ra's are all big enough villains that while they might associate with a particular hero or heroes, many of their qualifying actions take place across other comic series' and they should simply link to their character pages.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#257: May 10th 2018 at 7:52:31 AM

I've cut Jenner's entry on the work's YMMV page, but a cut request needs to go through to remove him on the sub-page.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#258: May 10th 2018 at 8:18:34 AM

So I just talked Evil Morty over with Scraggle... is his season... even done yet? It's my fault for not putting in a two week rule and I'll do that now but if we're mid way through his arc I'm going to request we step back on him until there's at least a break in it.

Edit: Okay, it seems there's a break in the season but the fact remains Scraggle makes a compelling case we haven't seen enough of him to get a proper beat on him. Vouching for a no/wait and see.

edited 10th May '18 8:22:11 AM by 43110

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#259: May 10th 2018 at 8:22:05 AM

Listing Evil Morty as an MB would be, at best, preemptive. It's going to be a while until the next season of Rick and Morty, but as stands, Evil Morty hasn't appeared anywhere near enough to offer any substantive evidence why he should be listed, and he's clearly due for a lot more in the future.

No on him for now.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#260: May 10th 2018 at 8:22:49 AM

[up] Rick and Morty current season is over, I think that Evil Morty already showed enough feats and if something against his inclusion appaears, we're gonna cut him.

Watch me destroying my country
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#261: May 10th 2018 at 8:38:42 AM

So uh..........Anybody wanted to vote for my candidate that I posted in the previous page? I know it's not the greatest of the EP but I don't want to annoy you guys just because of this candidate got ignored. Ah well, I think it's my lesson to learn to craft better E Ps for MB in the future [lol]

edited 10th May '18 8:42:13 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#262: May 10th 2018 at 8:52:09 AM

Do the Dragonball Super examples, Goku Black/Zamasu and Universal Survival arc Freeza count?

  • In the Future Trunks Saga, both versions of Zamasu in the Future Trunks timeline. Particularly the one who's become Goku Black - he wastes no time in divulging his identity, rather opting to fight his opponents head on without hesitation, and in the present, when discovering Trunk’s time machine, he destroys it in an attempt to leave Trunks there before being forced back into the future, and even when Trunks returns, with Goku and Vegeta no less, he is only amused and in fact excited to fight them both. He is keen on bringing his foes into his traps, such as when he stabbed Vegeta, and is such a Combat Pragmatist that he doesn’t allow a one-on-one fight between Goku and his partner. He was able to meld the Saiyan power of Goku's stolen body with his own divine energy [[spoiler:power up into a new transformation called Super Saiyan Rose, and kept making up new techniques on the fly to counter his foes. He keeps a sadistic form of polite grace at all times, genuinely complimenting the heroes in their battles and never losing his temper or raising his voice even once in any of his appearances, completely averting major Villainous Breakdowns of any kind. And not only are they one of very few villains to actually gain immortality (and unlike anime Filler Villain Garlic Jr., they exploit the advantage of this rather than suffering a drawback of it), but after becoming Merged Zamasu and even after getting seemingly defeated they're one of the most successful villains in the history of the franchise, as they actually accomplish exactly what they set out to achieve, their spirit leaving their body and becoming an all-powerful divine existence that merges itself with the entire universe in Future Trunks' timeline, eradicating all mortals in said timeline and extending his power across Universe 7's entire multiverse, which can only be stopped by Future Lord Zen'o.

  • As of the Universe Survival Saga, Frieza has managed to graduate to this level. While he remains an utterly sadistic bastard, he's more level-headed, cunning, charismatic, and savvy this time around, as demonstrated with his bargaining with Goku and manipulation of Frost. To this end, he's even willing to help his mortal enemies for a long-term goal, and in contrast to the Saiyans he is perfectly content to sit back and wait while the other strong contestants tire themselves out fighting each other before making his move, all while still acting his usual self. He has managed to terrify his foes, his teammates, and the spectating Gods of Destruction alike, long before exhibiting his full potential. The saga ends with him becoming instrumental to helping the Universe 7 team win the tournament, and while he doesn't get to wish for godhood on the Super Dragon Balls like he'd been planning on, his actions during his Enemy Mine with Goku are rewarded by Beerus and Whis bringing him back to life with no strings attached. The first thing he does with this new chance at life? Go back into space and call together the remnants of his empire or any newcomers willing to join him so that his Evil Overlord status is restored, only this time he's even stronger than before (with his Golden Frieza transformation) and now is patient enough to wait until he and his forces are even more powerful before he's to take any shots at revenge on Goku and his friends on Earth. As he puts it, "the emperor of the universe has returned!"

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#263: May 10th 2018 at 9:00:30 AM

Use the Hakai. Erase it from existence.

Zamasu is a egocentric Knight Templar and Black Goku is basically The Bully in a multiversal scale, especially towards Future Trunks.

They're a narcissist monster that cry because he believes that killing everyone is basically a messianic sacrifice...for himself. That he is the one satisfying himself by killing trillions.

They are far from this trope. I Love to Hate them, but they're a Complete Monster for good reasons

edited 10th May '18 9:05:29 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#264: May 10th 2018 at 9:02:03 AM

I still haven't watched Super, but Freeza hinges on too much of a Smug Snake for me to be comfortable allowing him onto the trope. He's too much of a contemptuous, spiteful asshole with a propensity for dirty tricks (like trying to blast Goku while his back is turned after Goku has fairly beaten and spared him). He's got no sense of honor, no sense of class... he's intelligent and effective, but that's about it. As far as I know, Super doesn't get rid of these traits, it just downplays them in favor of Pragmatic Villainy. He's still the world's biggest frozen turn otherwise.

edited 10th May '18 9:03:31 AM by Scraggle

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#265: May 10th 2018 at 9:04:25 AM

[up] Why can't an MB be egocentric? Goku Black coming up with the Zero Mortal Plan makes him way more than a bully.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#266: May 10th 2018 at 9:04:46 AM

Agreed, Zamasu is one of my favourite DB villains but he's way too unhinged, prone to breakdowns and zealous for this trope.

Despite how often Frieza is cited as one on the CM forum, I'm highly skeptical he ever overcomes his massive Smug Snake tendencies, not to mention the issues with his intense sadism.

[down] I'm sure they are... Seryu Ubiquitous was the most eyebrow-raising I've come across.

edited 10th May '18 9:14:20 AM by 43110

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#267: May 10th 2018 at 9:06:15 AM

[up][up] The Zero Mortal Plan is basically "Kill everyone". Not a real plan.

Is not like Zamasu is manipulating people into killing each other and then he kill the survivors. He is just killing everyone.

Zamasu is way too monstrous for this trope. His main traits are his Egocentrism and Self Righteousness, Not his intelligence.

[up] A lot of people think that "Villain with a plan= Magnificent Bastard "

Oh boy, we really need this clean up. I'm sure that every villain with some successful and smart moments is listed here.

edited 10th May '18 9:12:14 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#268: May 10th 2018 at 9:14:28 AM

Yeah, I agree Frueza still doesn't doesn't count. During his fights with Toppo and Jiren, after they [[ Curb-Stomp Battle stomp his ass]]. He has a breakdown and tries to kill each of them despite the tournament of power rules prohibiting murder.

He also was overly arrogant in both fights, thinking he could overpower Toppo's Hakai Ball since he did the same to Sidra's weaker one and nearly got killed.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#269: May 10th 2018 at 9:21:43 AM

Zamasu is a fun villain because he's so over-the-top in his Omnicidal Maniac tendencies.

Frieza is a fun villain because he's so over-the-top in his Smug Snake tendencies.

I think we all agree both can be shown the door.

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#270: May 10th 2018 at 9:27:13 AM

Speaking of Dragon Ball, what about Cell?

He is listed.

Cell from Dragon Ball: In his imperfect form, Cell runs rings around the Z fighters as he masterfully evades their attempts to ambush him while draining countless cities of their population's bio extract. Upon finding himself sorely outclassed by Vegeta later in the series, Cell tricks the Saiyan prince into allowing him to absorb Android 18 by promising to provide him with an opportunity to test the full extent of his newfound power. In the ensuing rematch, he succeeds in reaping vengeance upon Vegeta by breaking him down physically and psychologically. He then more or less toys with the Z-Warriors by forcing them to play by his own rules in the Cell Games or face outright annihilation. During the Cell Games, however, is when he starts to get more overconfident and the reason he loses in the end ironically enough, is that his plan to push all Gohan's Berserk Buttons in order to make him a worthy challenge ends up working far too well — which, by the way, was essentially Goku's plan. He regains his magnificence, however, when he comes back from the seeming dead, more powerful than ever, and almost defeating Gohan and destroying the planet, all while displaying his trademark Awesome Ego.

I'm personally unsure, if he had the same personality as he did in his Imperfect form, he would probably stand a chance, but both his Semi-Perfect and Perfect forms have him have a Villainous Breakdown at certain points.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#271: May 10th 2018 at 9:30:54 AM

Ironically, the stronger Cell gets, the further he gets from this trope.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#272: May 10th 2018 at 9:35:21 AM

Agreed, Cell gets more rational but much smugger the smarter he gets. Also, since they're the same character, I'm not inclined to give one the slack of not having a Villainous Breakdown when he evolves into someone who does.

Tbh I think it's hard for a DBZ villain to make it. One of the things that makes the show so fun is the heavy emphasis on fighting and while many of the characters are smart, threats almost always hinge on how powered up someone gets as opposed to manipulative schemes.

edited 10th May '18 9:36:20 AM by 43110

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#273: May 10th 2018 at 9:44:41 AM

Cut Zamasu. In his case hes way to much of an Omnicidal Maniac.

Freeza shoud go as well. Ill credit that he does show some promise but dropped the ball for now.

Cell is weird. He started off as a pretty genuine example in his imperfect form but as he gets more powerful, he becomes more unhinged and less of a quick thinker.

Honestly like Jo Jo. I don't think well be able to get examples from Dragon Ball as all he villains are too emotional for this trope. Note that I quite like Zamasu, Freeza and Cell and think there great villains but there not this trope.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#274: May 10th 2018 at 9:51:39 AM

Continuing on here's Transformers Prime

  • Magnificent Bastard:
    • Soundwave, a badass who manages to become The Dreaded In-Universe and out. When you keep Megatron's subordinates in line, some credit needs to go to you.
    • Season 1's Silas.
    • Starscream and Megatron both give this trope their best shot, but both sometimes fall short for different reasons.
      • Both, however, deserve mention for their actions in the second half of Season 3. The former managed to manipulate Predaking into almost killing Wheeljack and Ultra Magnus by getting them to wipe out the Predacon embryos, meaning that the Autobots got the blame instead of them. In any case, had the plan not worked, the Autobots would have been defeated, taking out some of their enemies and also screwing Shockwave over by not letting him know of his plan. The latter manipulates Ratchet into a temporary Enemy Mine with the prospect of reviving Cybertron, while making no effort to hide the fact that he ''will'' kill him when it is done. It works too.
      • Even before that, Starscream managed to ambush Smokescreen and take the third Omega Key, giving him a bargaining chip with the Autobots, then screw the Autobots over when they have the other three and use it as a way to buy his way back into the Decepticons. This was an action so cunning it made Optimus of all people flip out.

Soundwave is awesome but he doesn't have any master plan or anything that would make him this, hes just genuliy loyal to Megatron. Silas in season 2 become a Complete Monster and lost his MB traits from season 1 in the process. Starscream and Megatron drop the ball later on and this version of Starscream has some bad villanous Breakdowns.

edited 10th May '18 9:55:20 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#275: May 10th 2018 at 10:45:54 AM

From Once Upon A Time

  • Magnificent Bastard:
    • Rumpelstiltskin. Season 1 was the story of his biggest Batman Gambit. Best evidenced by how he gets Regina to call him a bastard twice in the season.
    • Regina as the mayor, particularly from episode 11 onward. It is glorious how she is always one step ahead of the heroes.
    • Cora, the Chessmaster who makes Regina look like an amateur and is close to being on par with Rumple.
    • Captain Hook ascends to the position in "Into the Deep" and maintains it in "Queen of Hearts", with his crowning achievement being in "The Evil Queen", until his Heel–Face Turn shortly afterward rather descends him from this.
    • Would you believe, of all people, that Peter Pan is a pretty big one as well? He is a master of psychological manipulation and long-term planning, and he comes incredibly close to achieving victory twice, with only Emma and Regina's power as mothers and then Rumple's Heroic Sacrifice being able to stop him.
    • Zelena, aka the Wicked Witch of the West, starts out as one in Storybrooke as she plays the town into providing her with what she needs while posing as a kindly midwife, but she gradually devolves into a Smug Snake who is ultimately taken out rather anticlimactically. Until it's revealed she faked her death, then killed and replaced Marian just so that she could take Robin away from Regina, thus ruining her happy ending. And then she manages to blackmail Rumpelstiltskin into making a deal that makes him into her pawn to find the Author, definitely getting her back on the list. She declines to Smug Snake territory again in Season 5, but to her credit she still manages to look more competent next to even bigger Smug Snake, King Arthur.
    • The Snow Queen in Season 4 has become a major one, with some fans calling her the best villain the show has had since Rumplestiltskin and Regina in Season 1. She almost effortlessly accomplishes everything she sets out to do, and the fact that she and Rumple seem to view each other as equals (even as he is on the verge of achieving greater power than ever before) speaks volumes.
    • Hades in Season 5. All you really need to know about him to justify his status as this trope is that he actually out-Rumples Rumple, deceiving and enslaving him through methods that Rumple himself is accustomed to using.
    • Fiona, the Black Fairy, in the Season 6 finale put together an Evil Plan that came closest to total success than any other, with it only being thwarted in the end by her underestimating both the Savior, Emma, and her own son, Rumpelstiltskin.
    • Mother Gothel in Season 7, who in the midseason finale is revealed to have been playing both of the season's apparent main villains for chumps the whole time, knowing exactly what buttons to push to get them both to do everything she needs while each thinks they're the one in control.

I don't think any of them count. For starter Regina, Zelena and Gothel committed rape. Most of the villains made critical mistakes by misjudging the heroes including the resident Chestmaster Rumplestilskin. Captain Hook is is the farthest from this trope since he was pretty much beaten at every turn. "Hook x Floor" is even a meme.


Total posts: 82,595
Top