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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#26126: Aug 24th 2020 at 3:44:09 PM

Yes to Achille. I like the Carmen quote, too (makes me wonder if there's another version of her we haven't found yet).

Taking a break from the Street Fighter EPs for a bit, here's a character from one of my favorite game series'.

What's the work?

Disgaea: Hour of Darkness is the first game in the Disgaea series, a franchise that happens to be a big fat parody of the entire RPG genre. In the Netherworld, home of the card-carrying demons, Prince Laharl awakens from his two-year slumber to find that his father, the respected King Krichevskoy, has passed, leaving the throne up for grabs. Laharl, annoyed that people aren't recognizing him as Overlord by default, grabs whatever servants he has left, including his snarky, enigmatic right-hand woman Etna, and sets off on a quest to beat the crap out of anybody who would reject his leadership.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's Celestia, home of the self-righteous angels. The Trope Namer for Love Freak herself, the good-natured but very ditzy Angel Trainee Flonne, is invited to a meeting with the Seraph, who gives her a simple job: to assassinate King Krichevskoy. She bungles it, because A) he's already dead and B) she's too nice to do it in the first place, causing her to tag along with Laharl and Etna for a while to see if demons have any good in them, something they try to prove wrong.

From there, the plot is a mish-mash of Character Development and random events, but an overarching mastermind presides behind the scenes...

Who is Seraph Lamington?

The leader of Celestia, Lamington initially appears to be an absent-minded, overly idealistic bumble-brain who is easily manipulated by his cruel underling Vulcanus, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, Lamington had previously worked with Krichevskoy to try and improve connections between Celestia and the Netherworld, so that demons and angels could live together in peace. Since Krichevskoy had passed, however, he's been forced to manipulate events to obtain what he wants - specifically, to test Laharl's heart and prove himself as an Overlord. To this end, he sent Flonne, one of the few angels to question Celestia's prejudiced ethics, to "assassinate" the Overlord, knowing she would flub it and become friends with Laharl instead. This results in Flonne aiding Laharl in destroying his opposition and crowning himself Overlord, to her chagrin.

Lamington mostly pops in and out of the game, but there's a few crucial scenes where he is shown observing the party's progress. The recurring baddie Vyers/Mid-Boss, all but said to be the reincarnation of Krichevskoy himself, is revealed to be working with Lamington to give him a direct pair of hands on the field, pretending to be a hopelessly pathetic nuisance who battles the party to give them a chance to grow closer. Knowing of Vulcanus' serious racism towards demons, Lamington entertains most of his insane rambling about how Flonne is plotting an uprising against him when he gives Vulcanus the a-okay to take matters into his own hands. This leads to Vulcanus manipulating the humans of Earth into attacking the Netherworld - an act which exposes angel involvement in the assault and convinces Laharl, Flonne, and the rest of the party to go up to Celestia and get some answers out of the Seraph.

In the very last level, Lamington drops the airhead act and gets busy. He reveals that he never bought Vulcanus' bull for a second and that he knew of his scheming from the start, transforming him into a flower as a punishment. He allows Flonne to reveal all that she learned in the Netherworld (that demons are dicks, but still fully capable of love and compassion) only to transform her into a flower as well - a punishment for attacking other angels. Laharl gets extremely, earth-shatteringly, understandably fuck-ass mad about this and attacks the Seraph.

As it turns out, Lamington provoked the prince's wrath on purpose to see if he would be willing to show mercy, while also willing to accept death as penance for his manipulations should Laharl fail. In the canon ending, Laharl almost kills the Seraph in a rage, sparing him only because it's what Flonne would have wanted, and prepares to sacrifice himself to save her life when Vyers interrupts him to explain their conspiracy. Since Laharl passed the test, Flonne poofs back into existence as a Fallen Angel, allowing her to live in the Netherworld with her friends while acting as a representative of Celestia note . Laharl, having finalized his growth, gloats that he'll be the best damn Overlord there is and comes to an agreement with Lamington, with the final shot of the game being a respectful handshake between the two.

Is he smart?

The whole game is an excellently done gambit to unite two worlds, via tricking two kids into becoming best buddies and working through their problems together, and adapts to circumstance when things aren't quite going right, either by sending in Vyers to push things in the right direction, or exploiting his own right-hand's schemes to talk to Laharl in person. While him and Vyers are largely equals in the conspiracy, Lamington is the one who puts the plot into motion and is the one who makes the call for when Vyers should get involved.

Is he a bastard?

I shot him down twice previously because I mis-remembered many, many of the meaner details of his plan. After rewatching the cutscenes, here's what I got: he sends Flonne into a hellscape where her life is at risk; helps pre-Character Development Laharl (i.e. a violent jackhole) become Overlord; provokes Laharl into a murderous rage and gambles Flonne's life on him showing mercy; and finally, he willingly enables Vulcanus' plotting, which ultimately triggers a series of events that gets several humans, demons, and angels killed. Vyers also does some sketchy shit (like endangering Flonne's life, or threatening to kill General Carter to get information out of him), and as his partner Lamington has some responsibility for it. I'd say he clears it.

Is he charming?

Yep. Yep. Yepyepyepyepyep. The Seraph is wise, polite, composed, and ultimately harbors no ill intentions. He doesn't even like what he's doing and is willing to die because of it. He's one of the only angels who realizes demons aren't inherently bad people, acknowledging that "good" and "evil" aren't fit to describe entire species like angels and demons think they do. In addition, his plan specifically causes Laharl to become a better person and king to his people.

Verdict?

I was unsure at first, but after refreshing my memory on what actually happens in the story? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. By far the franchise's best villain and maybe the only one who counts.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#26128: Aug 24th 2020 at 3:50:46 PM

[tup] Lamington.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#26131: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:05:17 PM

Btw you're not feeling Xenolith anymore Doc?

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#26132: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:10:39 PM

Mmmm. I initially decided against him because I wasn't sure he had enough smarts to him, buuuuuut I still have the EP saved, and upon reflection he might make it after all. Gimme an hour or two to touch it up and I'll give him a shot.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26133: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:21:39 PM

[tup]Lamington

Would anyone else in the series count in the other games ?

Oh fight for Carmen. We haven't actually discussed her game version yet. If anyone wants to do. Sure go ahead.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 24th 2020 at 4:22:52 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#26134: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:37:00 PM

[tup] to Lamington. You know I think Xenolith is at least worth an EP

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 24th 2020 at 1:37:41 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#26135: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:51:05 PM

Sure to Seraph.

@jjjj2 Speaking of The Wire, I remember why Stringer Bell doesn't counts, but why Prop Joe is a non-keeper as well?

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 24th 2020 at 1:51:25 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#26136: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:52:07 PM

Ah screw it, lez do dis.

What's the work?

Now, we'll be talking about Disgaea D2: A Brighter Darkness, a direct sequel to Hour of Darkness. After coming to a peaceful agreement with Seraph Lamington, our heroTM  Laharl finds out that the demons still aren't really interested in following his rule, and on top of this, he discovers that he has a Celestia-born little sister named Sicily, to which he vehemently denies that they're related (spoiler: they are, it's complicated). Together with Sicily, Etna, and Flonne, the group journeys around and beats the crap out of everybody with the balls to defy his rule, particularly the Krichevskoy Group, a group of vassals of his who are... basically Team Rocket.

However, a third-party soon reveals itself: a mysterious figure who... kinda looks like a dude version of Etna, actually. Well, that's probably not gonna be significant.

Who is Xenolith?

The main villain of the game is Xenolith, an old, powerful demon of uncharacteristic amicability and Etna's older brother. Realizing that, even as a baby, Etna's utterly insane amount of innate magical power would lead to her demise, Xenolith claimed the Artifact of Absolute Death (yes, that's what it's called) and used it to drain Etna's power, saving her life in the process. Xenolith knew that the Artifact would inevitably kill its wielder and initially accepted his fate, but he somehow found a way to fuse himself with it, saving himself in the process. However, rumors circulated that Xenolith would attempt to overthrow Krichevskoy, causing both siblings to be attacked at every turn. Eventually, Etna was stolen from him, only to be rescued and adopted by Krichevskoy, something Xenolith allowed knowing she would be safer under his care.

Xenolith is first met protecting an angel from a demon attack, causing immediate suspicion among the party, but they reluctantly help him out and send them on their way. Later, Laharl and friends are trying to solve a mystery - Celestia-native Yuie flowers are appearing in the Netherworld for some reason, causing tensions between both angels and demons. As they go about their quest, Xenolith arranges a meeting with Etna, and proves how different he is from other demons by showing it's not a trap and he genuinely just wanted to show her where they used to live, but since Etna's ego is about as blinding as the sun she brushes him off.

The truth about Xenolith becomes clear in the final chapter. The problem with the Artifact is that... you can't really turn it off. The entire time Xenolith had it in his possession, it had been draining the Netherworld of its power, causing it to de-stabilize. To re-balance it, Xenolith took to capturing angels and risking their lives by siphoning them of their magic to keep the Netherworld steady, thus causing the appearance of the Yuie flowers, staying under the radar and avoiding detection until the last minute. Knowing that Etna would fuck things up if she knew that he was using it to suppress her power, he gives the party very careful answers to their questions and rolls with them thinking he's going to use the Artifact to become the Overlord. When confronted by the party, Xenolith reveals the truth, causing Etna to say "oi, screw this" and tells Laharl to attack the Artifact, causing it to go haywire and obliterate Xenolith's mind, while also causing the Netherworld to start falling apart.

After a lengthy (and surprisingly hard) fight against him, the Artifact is destroyed, causing Etna to surge with astronomical amounts of holy shit make it stop energy, while the Netherworld itself gets pissed and begins dragging Xenolith into the ground. Xenolith is okay with the arrangement, as he considers it penance for his misdeeds, but Etna, who overcomes the pain of a thousand suns through the power of raw Tsundere, orders him to come back to Laharl's Castle if he survives, to which Xenolith simply smiles. Etna falls in a coma, wakes up, and meets Xenolith at the gates, promising to have Laharl pardon him for his crimes.

Etna: ...Stupid Big Brother...

Is he smart?

A bit on the lower end of the feats department, but I'd say he clears it. Xenolith completely avoids detection until the last chapter of the game, and even deflects suspicion from the main party through acts of decency, both fake (like saving an angel just to kidnap her later) and legitimate (inviting them for a simple chat). He isn't even really "caught", so to speak - when the party encounters an angel who escaped from his lair, he chides himself for letting it happen and simply decides to reveal himself, making an effort to convince the party not to destroy the Artifact.

Is he bad enough?

Close enough. He's barely a villain at all, but kidnapping a bunch of angels and forcing them to slowly kill themselves to stabilize the Netherworld is probably sufficient.

Is he charming?

Xenolith is a genuinely friendly dude who happens to be in a shit situation, being nothing short of dignified, honest, and respectful towards the party. He loves his sister deeply and she loves him back, even if she'd rather die than admit it. He's even decent enough to discreetly help Laharl save Team Rocket from their own stupidity. He only ever loses his composure once: in one specific ending where Etna shatters the Artifact and is killed by the magic it releases, he starts screaming with grief when she bites it, which I wouldn't blame him for.

Verdict?

A weaker keeper than Lamington, but yeah, I think he makes it.

Edited by DocSharp on Aug 24th 2020 at 4:59:47 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#26137: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:53:40 PM

[tup]Xenolith

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#26138: Aug 24th 2020 at 4:55:16 PM

[up][up][up]Joe is definitely charming and as I detailed a couple of pages ago, he definitely doesn't have the bigotry problems that Stringer does. However he is outwitted by Omar and fatally by Marlo. The last one is the big one in my mind. When Slim and Cheese are pointing out what a terrible idea it is to let Marlo meet with the greeks, that's a blindspot. Later he keeps trying to in his own words "civilize this motherfucker", but Marlo is just using the teachings to pull a You Have Outlived Your Usefulness. To me it's a classic Farmer and the Viper situation where everyone else can see that Marlo is a Viper.

Edited by jjjj2 on Aug 24th 2020 at 7:56:07 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#26142: Aug 24th 2020 at 5:08:32 PM

[tup]Xenolith. Seems like a classic Well-Intentioned Extremist.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#26143: Aug 24th 2020 at 5:08:39 PM

Yes to Xenolith. As for the screaming when Etna dies? His little sister is everything to him and he’s heartbroken, he’s not some petty villain butthurt his plan for world domination was quashed.

Edited by 43110 on Aug 24th 2020 at 8:25:59 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#26145: Aug 24th 2020 at 5:43:44 PM

'Yes' to Achille, Lamington and Xenolith

As for Lester and Michael from The Wire? I'll hear it out but it's gonna take a lot of convincing for me to even start to consider either of them. Enjoy the proposals either way, of course, not like rewatching one of the best shows ever made should be much of a chore [lol]

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#26146: Aug 24th 2020 at 6:35:37 PM

[tup] Xenolith.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#26147: Aug 24th 2020 at 6:55:49 PM

[tup] Achille, Lamington and Xenolith

[tdown] Death Note duo

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#26148: Aug 24th 2020 at 9:20:19 PM

So, after spending some time in the Complete Monster thread, finally, finally I've decided to check out it's sister thread, for the Magnificient Bastard.

I guess I can chuck in this guy from the Fighting Fantasy spinoff as a nomination.

The Work:

The Riddling Reaver is an opponent worthy of the most daring adventurers. His mind is inscrutable — but there is no doubt about the chaos he plans to unleash on the world. He must be stopped, despite the hazards of the task!

The Riddling Reaver is a spin-off adventure novel from the Fighting Fantasy Gamebook series. Unlike the usual gamebooks from the series, this one has a game system that allows up to four players to participate at the same time. In this story, the player(s) must stop the titular villain from unleashing his army of Replicanths on the kingdom of Allansia.

The Candidate:

The titular villain, of course. The Riddling Reaver is a manipulative, cunning trickster who uses the players as his unwitting pawns, by taunting for the players to follow him, and yet staying one step ahead of the players at every turn.

Firstly showing up in the town of Kallamehr, the Reaver is shown killing its local ruler, Baron Bluestone, right in front of the players. Tempting the players to follow him, the Reaver makes a quick getaway, but not before leaving behind a secret riddle box which the players must unlock. The riddle box, when opened, will clue in the players on how to access the Reaver's next destination, an uninhabited island in the Southern Lands.

Using the clues, the player(s) will find a magic ship called the Twice Shy. The Twice Shy will transport players to the island, but unbeknowst to the players, the Twice Shy is owned by none other than the Reaver himself. On board, the players are in for a perilous journey while battling the Reaver's minions before being caught in a storm and forced to abandon ship. The players are then washed ashore the mysterious island.

On the island, players will befried Waxley Speed, an explorer and adventurer, who guides players through the monster-filled jungles into a pyramid filled with booby traps, into the heart of said pyramid containing an artefact called the Pendulum of Fate, which Waxley convinces the players that is a required item to defeat the Reaver. But upon escaping the pyramid, Waxley then reveals himself to be the Reaver in disguise, all along, where he needs the Pendulum of Fate for his own nefarious plans, before making a quick getaway on his Cool Airship.

The rest of the adventure is a race against time, as players tracks down the Reaver in his lair for a Final Battle, the players against the Reaver and his Replicanth army, just as the Reaver is prepping a summoning ritual with the Pendulum.

How Smart is the Reaver?

He's a master manipulator created by Logaan the Trickster God, a Master of Disguise and expert in trickery and bluff. He wants the players to pursue him, fleeing from the heroes while leaving behind clues baiting for them to follow, because the Reaver knows the players will solve his clues and track him down right next to where he needs them most. He purposely left his enchanted ship to transport the players to the jungle, where he then greets the players under the guise of an explorer named Waxley and baits the players to assist him in retrieving the magical Pendulum.

Is he a bastard?

He's not portrayed in a positive manner, but yet the story never depicts him as hateful or despicable either. Having his Villain Opening Scene, he kills Baron Bluestone and has Lady Carolina Bluestone as hostage, the latter whom players must rescue before pursuing the Reaver. While he helpfully leaves his own transport ship for the players to board, however said ship is filled with monsters of his own creations, which the players have to fight throughout the voyage. When players reach the mysterious island, he further befriends them posing as Waxley Speed, and leads them through the booby-trapped pyramid. The players, upon retrieving the Pendulum after fighting all kinds of dangerous monsters, the Reaver then steals the artifact right beneath the players' noses and makes his escape.

Is he a Charming Enough?

The few scenes where he interacts with players, the Reaver is portrayed as Affably Evil, a joker and trickster. As Waxley Speed, he is helpful enough to provide clues and directions throughout the jungle quest and pyramid, but only because he needs the players alive to retrieve the Pendulum for him. Even as he reveals his true self after stealing the Pendulum, he deliberately leaves more clues for the players to track and follow him to his hideout so that the players can witness his ritual, For the Evulz.

So should we keep the Riddling Reaver then?

I suppose we can.

Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 26th 2020 at 2:13:36 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#26149: Aug 24th 2020 at 9:31:23 PM

[tup] to the Carmen quote. Could the game show version count or is she too theoretical a concept there to count?

Anyone wishing to discuss other possible Fillmore! candidates that I or you have in mind, then by all means reach out to me.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#26150: Aug 24th 2020 at 10:04:09 PM

Evil but it seems like it's in a fun way, especially compared to some of the nastier villains in that series. Yes to the Reaver.


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