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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#25426: Aug 16th 2020 at 7:29:02 PM

Yes to Emir. Jackie, I'm pretty sure Sylvia counts if you'd like that one.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#25427: Aug 16th 2020 at 7:35:01 PM

[up] Thanks, dude. I could propose her this week, or wait until No More Heroes 3, since she's making a return in that game.

Alright, final killer7 EP. I gotta be honest, this one did not appear in my dream. I thought of this guy as I was thinking of possible candidates.

So let’s talk about my favorite character in the game.

Who is he?

“The name’s Andrei Ulmeyda.”

Andrei Ulmeyda is an afro wearing former postman who became a powerful cult leader and president of the successful First Life Inc. after finding a portion of the Yakumo, a mysterious artifact heavily implied to be a foreign policy document. Despite being the main villain of the Cloudman chapter, he is not affiliated with Heaven Smile or Kun Lan.

What does he do?

After basically selling his town Ulmeyda InterCity, TX and its civilians out to the Heaven Smiles to get to where he is, Ulmeyda established a cult built around himself as a messiah figure. He even slapped posters, billboards, and merchandise of himself all around the town, his cult members even killing each other just to own an action figure of him. To make money, Ulmeyda began infecting himself with all different kinds of deadly viruses in order to overcome them, selling his special immunized blood as a miracle cure vaccine.

But then he got infected with the Heaven Smiles disease, which is partly used to create Heaven Smile monsters. Afraid of mutating into a Heaven Smile himself, Ulmeyda hatches a plan. Ulmeyda shows up on live TV and takes credit for a Heaven Smile bombing at a full Stacy concert, even if he didn't order it to happen. He uses the bombing in order to get the Smiths' attention, challenging them to track him down.

Once the Smiths encounter Ulmeyda, he reveals to them that First Life Inc. doesn’t really exist; all it does is run commercials. The vaccines Ulmeyda’s been selling were sold under him. Ulmeyda chooses one of his own followers, Clements, who he feels to be a worthy heir, to drive himself to death in an extremely fast car, though he’s confident that he’ll cross the finish line and survive. Ulmeyda also reveals to the Smiths that he wants them to kill him, afraid that he’ll transform and become a mindless monster. After all, the Smiths are the only ones that can kill the Heaven Smile monsters.

But then the US emergency countermeasure department arrives to execute Ulmeyda for criminal behavior, as well as seeking to take his special blood and profit off of it themselves, which gives Ulmeyda enough time to transform into Cloudman, the boss of the level. Cloudman rains acidic blood on the army, which kills them all, before fighting the player. But once Cloudman’s taken care of, Ulmeyda respectfully laughs, knowing that his wish for death has been granted. His spirit gives the still-living Clements reassuring advice to continue his legacy and become the new ruler of the town.

“The name’s Andrei Ulmeyda.”

Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?

Oh is he ever. Ulmeyda’s a pretty friendly, charming man who is actually not part of the Heaven Smiles, only using them to get the Smiths' attention. He established a fake company and still made loads of money out of fooling people who buy into his charismatic charm. Even when he’s transformed into a monster, Ulmeyda’s still dead set on having the Smiths put him out of his misery, and willingly lets Clements take over for him as the city’s newest leader.

Is he a bastard? Too much of one?

Here’s where it gets weird. He’s not that evil. He’s just very eccentric. But given that he uses a nearby bombing in order to get attention, establishes a cult around himself, doesn't care if his followers kill each other for him, allows the Heaven Smile monsters to roam his town causing mayhem, and the people in his little town aren’t a fan of him for what he’s done to the people living there, he still manages to act as an antagonistic force.

The competition?

He’s a minor antagonist compared to Emir and Harman, with barely any of their resources to his name. But compared to the game’s other arc villains, he keeps.

Curtis Blackburn’s far too monstrous to count (a pedophile who rapes little girls and harvests their organs? Yeah, no). Trever Pearlharbor is far too smug and doesn’t last very long to count. Baddies like the Handsome Men, Benjamin Keane, and Greg Nightmare also don’t have much screen time in comparison. For an Arc Villain, I think Ulmeyda does just enough.

Verdict?

I think he's a minor keep. Far lesser resources than Harman and Emir, but still a jovial, hammy bastard all the same.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 16th 2020 at 7:44:42 AM

It's Spooky Month!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#25428: Aug 16th 2020 at 7:36:22 PM

Heh. Surprised I didn’t think of him first. [tup] to Bryan.

Also, [tup] to the Bryan quote of course.

I figured too much of a Guile Hero, but I guess he goes crazy enough to count though.

By the way, who said they were doing Barbossa again?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 16th 2020 at 7:40:44 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#25429: Aug 16th 2020 at 7:44:59 PM

I'll say yeah to Ulmeyda and I haven't been following No More Heroes since I played the second one years back. If she's going to be in one soon may as well just wait it out.

[up] I was but kinda forgot to if you'd like him?

Edited by 43110 on Aug 16th 2020 at 10:44:59 AM

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#25430: Aug 16th 2020 at 7:49:40 PM

Yes to Harman, Emir, and Ulmeyda (he sounds bad enough to count).

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#25431: Aug 16th 2020 at 7:53:51 PM

[tup] Andrei.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#25433: Aug 16th 2020 at 8:20:37 PM

Cloudman rains acidic blood on the army, which kills them all
.

Right side of my brain is saying "Oh, this is standard Suda51 shiz and I admire his batshit insanity." Left side is saying "BUT Y THO?"

[tup] for Andrei Ulmeyda.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#25434: Aug 16th 2020 at 8:29:51 PM

[up] Ah, the writer's conundrum. You want to enjoy it, but your background won't let you.

Anyway, yeah there.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#25436: Aug 16th 2020 at 8:34:23 PM

@43 I wouldn’t know when I’d get to him. If somebody else does first, that’s totally fine.

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#25438: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:21:09 PM

[tup]Harman, Emir, Ulmeyda

Just a question: was Hondo Ohnaka ever discussed here? I’ve been rewatching Clone Wars and I was wondering if he could make it (haven’t watched Rebels yet)

[tup]Music Meister

Also, why reservations, from what I saw Hondo doesn't seem particularly sadistic or cruel, and he definitely manages to get his own way while being savvy and smart

Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 16th 2020 at 10:34:29 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#25439: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:29:11 PM

We've mentioned Hondo a few times before. While I have my reservations with the idea of him making it, I believe someone already has plans to discuss him.

Alright, down to business. [tup] Ulmeyda. I'll be doing my writeups for Spectre and Owlman tomorrow. However? We've got a candidate tonight. What say I deliver unto you... the show-stopper?

What's the show? Batman: The Brave and the Bold, the delightfully campy Batman cartoon which owes more to the Adam West series than to the darker interpretations of the character. Its lighter tone is consistent, and nowhere is it perhaps clearer than in perhaps the show's most iconic episode (At least competing with "Chill of the Night!" for the title) "Mayhem of the Music Meister!"

Ladies, gentlemen, technicolor rainbow in between and outside those designations, you probably already know our candidate. He's dastardly, despicable, disturbingly inexplicable. ("And eminently kickable!") That dirty rotten rat is?

The Music Meister! Who is he, and what does he do? The Music Meister is the simply fabulous self-proclaimed "maestro of villainy." Introducing himself boldly by interrupting a conflict between heroes and villains, he uses his power, a twist on Compelling Voice in which he can control minds through singing, to hijack the satellite the villains were attempting to hijack themselves. When interrupted by Batman, who uses special earplugs to block out his powers, the Music Meister narrowly makes a getaway by forcing the heroes and villains into a gloriously silly kickline into the satellite's rocket's flames, forcing Batman to save them.

Batman saves them and provides the heroes with the same specialized earplugs. Batman tracks the Music Meister to his lair, where he plays the organ for a cardboard audience. Batman reveals himself... and the Meister then proceeds to declare, in frustration, "Batman! Always Batman! Always driving villains bats!" Thus begins a chase sequence in which the Music Meister outpaces the Caped Crusader, making dozens of stylish costume changes along the way, brainwashing the citizens through his singing throughout the entire thing, freeing convicts, and generally outplaying and outmatching every hero who tries to stop him. Aquaman and Green Arrow fall to Meister's foes, their earplugs are pulled out, and they become his minions as well.

Now controlling Gotham, the Music Meister turns everyone against Batman. Black Canary, one of our hero's few remaining allies, arrives, singing a love ballad toward Batman. Music Meister overlooks her, falling for her and her beautiful voice. Canary, however, isn't interested even as he joins her song with her. The Music Meister decrees that they are the perfect match, but nonetheless decides that if Canary must die, she must die. Batman and Black Canary fall, one to the overwhelming hand of the convicts and the other to Music Meister's shock cane. Music Meister places the two in a death trap in his lair with the intent to end their lives, and prepares to unleash the final stage of his plan.

The two try to apprehend Music Meister, but they are too late. The Music Meister begins broadcasting his voice across Gotham, causing mass looting. As Canary and Batman fight back, Music Meister unleashes his real plan: Using the satellite to broadcast his voice not only to Gotham, but the entire world.

Canary is overpowered, and Music Meister, in his admiration of her, has her show down with Batman. Batman offers Music Meister a challenge, saying he will submit to Music Meister's rule if Canary can outsing him. Music Meister, utterly confident in her skills, accepts the challenge. He realizes only moments too late that Batman has a far greater range than he could have expected, (Thanks to a gadget, mind you.) tricking her into singing so high she unleashes her Canary Cry into a microphone, which broadcasts across the world and shakes the world from Music Meister's hypnosis. The Caped Crusader takes the Music Meister down, concluding his villainy mere inches from a complete victory.

As if that would have been a bad thing.

Intelligent? Magnificent? Charismatic? The Music Meister is clever, with a crazy yet brilliant plan to broadcast his mind-control voice across the world through the satellite. He is a genius, able to pull off brilliant feats and nearly evade Batman completely. He undoes himself a bit in the end when he has Canary go up against Batman in the singing competition, but a mild slip-up toward the end when he had almost conquered the entire world, a feat even many of the show's most successful villains cannot manage, isn't something I'll hold too far against him. Then we come to charisma and magnificence.

It's not even a question. Music Meister is a showman to the core, fantastically campy and glamorous in every regard. He's a walking Villain Song, does more costume changes in a single episode than most villains in the whole series manage, and is played to perfection by Neil Patrick Harris.

Evil? Too much? Oh, he's certainly evil. Tries to take over the world, nearly condemns six characters to a fiery death, uses death traps. He's nothing beyond the series' standard. His endgame is world domination and mass looting, but it's done so absurdly that you could hardly be anything but entertained by it.

While in theory his Stalker with a Crush tendencies toward Black Canary might damage his standing for this, I really don't think they do in practice. He falls in love with her due to her beautiful voice, and that's about it. The moment she rejects him, he tases her and puts her in the trap with Batman like a normal villain. Even after he captures her, which he clearly takes joy in, nothing he does to her is particularly cruel or untoward.

Think on his feet? Flawlessly distracts Batman. Takes the satellite that lets him broadcast his voice across the whole world. Sings his way through a lengthy chase sequence while changing costumes constantly along the way. I'd say he's good on this. Music Meister is not immune to frustration whatsoever, but even when genuinely angered, Music Meister is still progressing along without a moment's hesitation or backslide.

Competition? Defeated by mere moments by the Batman himself at the end, and that's it. He dances around every foe, including the Caped Crusader, with ease. The Music Meister has no true competition other than Batman, who spends most of the episode trying to keep up with the Music Meister and only manages to foil his plan with a gadget Music Meister had no way of predicting he had. I'd say he's good on this count too.

Conclusion? An enthusiastic [tup].

Edited by Riley1sCool on Aug 16th 2020 at 10:29:32 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#25440: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:31:02 PM

[tup] to the Music Meister!

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 16th 2020 at 7:32:25 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#25441: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:31:58 PM

I'm frankly stunned this guy wasn't brought up years earlier, even more so that his Arrowverse counterpart went up first (though I totally agree with both being listed). Enthusiastic yes to the Music Meister.

DocSharp Since: Jun, 2011
#25442: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:38:58 PM

Happy yes to the Music Meister.

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#25443: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:46:45 PM

As for Hondo? My reservation can actually best be summarized as one reservation: Having rewatched the episode discussed when he was previously mentioned, Hondo's actions make it very clear he has no problem selling the underage (canonically a teen at the time, although the show doesn't seem to recognize it often) Ahsoka into sexual slavery. He tells her that he has clients who will pay handsomely for a "female" Jedi and caresses her lips. Last time I brought this up, I was told that Hondo, Lovable Rogue that he is, probably wouldn't do such a thing, but the issue is that Hondo's moral code changes as often as the average person changes shirts. It's clear that is exactly his intention. On the other hand, it's also just business for him, so I'm a little torn on how to handle it.

It's not a complete deal-breaker for me. Dude's my third favorite character in the whole franchise, an Affably Evil joy to watch, and is absolutely magnificent enough. I'd just take some convincing, convincing probably not too difficult to do, to get me past an abstain. Hell, in a lighter cartoon I'd have little problem with that, I'd see it as people being dirty-minded and reading too heavily, but this is Clone Wars, a rather mature cartoon where it is clear sexual slavery certainly does exist.

Beyond that, though, I'm fine with him getting up.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#25445: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:52:54 PM

[up][up]which episode was that? I Probably haven't watched that one yet

[down]I’ll watch that episode and see for myself

Also relating to that, can a character still count if they should a trait that would otherwise disqualify them, but later abandons that trait.

Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 16th 2020 at 11:04:45 AM

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#25446: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:56:26 PM

Season 5, Episode 7, "A Test of Strength." Some of it also happens in the episode after, I believe.

I mean, if people honestly don't think that's his goal there, their interpretations are certainly valid. I initially was pretty sure the entry on the radar page there was just people making it sound worse than it is, but it's obvious to me that is the idea.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Aug 16th 2020 at 11:01:57 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#25447: Aug 16th 2020 at 10:58:40 PM

[tup] Music Meister. Wow, that brought back memories.

It's Spooky Month!
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#25448: Aug 16th 2020 at 11:24:11 PM

Definite 'Yes' to Jackie's, as well as Music Meister—even if he does express frustrations here and there and lets out a Big "NO!" when beaten, it's not nearly enough to override his sheer magnetic, hypnotic patter!

As for Hondo, yes, I'm fully planning to propose him soon enough, as he's on my To-Do. I'll bring up my full thoughts then, but I really, really want to stress that jumping to the conclusion of sexual slavery in a PG cartoon where nothing of the sort is even implied in the entire run of the series really doesn't scream "disqualifier" to me. Hondo's exact dialogue is:

"The truth is, I have my sights set on more nefarious criminals than I—businessmen! Who will pay handsomely for a Jedi, and a female Jedi at that! By the way, they don't care if you're dead or alive. I mean, I prefer alive. Less messy, but I find my mood so changeable these days!"

I think him outright saying that they don't care if she's "dead or alive" kind of eliminates "sexual slavery" from the equation, unless they're further implying necrophilia in a PG cartoon. Mentioning that she's a "female Jedi at that" could easily just be a play on how rare they are—not that they're more sexually desirable.

Edited by Ravok on Aug 16th 2020 at 11:26:54 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#25449: Aug 16th 2020 at 11:25:29 PM

Either way I will look forward to when Hondo get his EP

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#25450: Aug 16th 2020 at 11:26:53 PM

Yeah. I'll concede your point, Ravok. That's a rather wild assumption of me to make.

Edited by Riley1sCool on Aug 16th 2020 at 11:30:41 AM


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