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Cleanup thread: Magnificent Bastard

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous post 
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

  • Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.

  • What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
    • Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
    • Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
    • Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
    • Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
    • Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.

  • What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.

  • Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.

  • What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
    • Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
    • Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
    • List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
    • The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.

  • How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.

  • What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.

  • What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.

  • What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.

  • Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.

  • What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.

  • Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.

  • What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.

  • Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.

Thread rules

When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.

Resolved items

In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.

However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.

This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.

Definitely an MB

Definitely not an MB

  • South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#25276: Aug 15th 2020 at 12:29:53 PM

'The Sibilant Shade,' was in single.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#25278: Aug 15th 2020 at 12:49:03 PM

Quick one!

What's the work?

Still on Arthurian legend, just a different cycle. Now, Arthurian literature—from what I can see—tends to be divided into the following cycles: pre-Geoffrey, post-Geoffrey, the French prose cycle, and post-Malory.

Today, we look at a short poem Modred: A Fragment, a post-Malorian work written by Edwin Arlington Robinson. The poem is in fact a fragment deleted from a bigger poem Lancelot for narrative concision. It also is an extended depiction of the villain in action using a knight's virtues against him.

Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?

No surprise, it's Mordred (called "Modred" here), the most treacherous Knight of the Round Table. By the time this work was published, Mordred's background as a survivor of the May Day Massacre has taken hold of Arthurian literature. The poem itself takes place after Mordred learns of his true heritage and of Arthur's role in the massacre itself. The parent poem depicts Lancelot's (and Queen's perspective) on the rift forming with Mordred as the Big Bad. Now left with naught but bitterness and burning desire for revenge, Mordred is depicted almost similarly to Morgan—just more prone to "singing laughs."

Mordred requests an audience with fellow knights Colgrevance and Agravaine and gives instructions to shadow Lancelot in hopes of exposing his affair with Queen Guinevere—and thus bring Arthur into everything and cause chaos. Colgrevance refuses to be a "poisonous inhabitant" to his plot, leading Mordred to smile and use his words better. He apparently eavesdropped in a conversation with Lancelot and Guinevere and relays words to Colgrevance, as well as a reminder of his vow as a knight, and that seems to do the trick.

That done, Agravaine questions Mordred on why he needed a man like Colgrevance to set a trap. Mordred calmly replies he needs a man like Colegrevance, one who will do his duty "for [Modred's] necessity" even as he grumbles about it. One layer of the plan set, and the two go off to see everyone, including Lancelot, having fun. For now.

Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligence, etc.)? Why or why not?

Lancelot only offers mere glimpses into Mordred's character, and on its own, it wouldn't be enough since it's largely from Lancelot's perspective. Armed with Modred however? We really getting to see Mordred's magnificence shine.

The whole goddamn poem is a dramatic scene in which Mordred manipulates Colgrevance so that he will help with the unsavory work of trapping Lancelot and the queen. Mordred's ability to control the basically noble knight by using his virtues of fearlessness and sense of duty against him makes Mordred a fascinatingly dangerous and despicable villain. This work marked a time where writers became interested in exploring the psychology of Mordred. He's suddenly a full-bodied character with motivations instead of a mere catalyst for Arthur's downfall with a name. Robinson's Modred is brilliantly manipulative and eloquent, much more so than that of the Mordred in Geoffrey's Historia and other chronicles. He smiles his "first ascension of anger" away when Colgrevance initially refuses and simply talks things into his favor. No violence necessary.

Taking a look into Lancelot: A Poem, the scheming manipulativeness of Mordred still abounds, having wormed his machinations deep into the Round Table. He is described as such in Part VI:

Till Modred had in his dark wormy way

Crawled into light again with a new ruin

At work in that occult snake’s brain of his.

Lancelot would go on to say he fears Mordred more than any. Mind, Lancelot is one of the greatest knights in the history of the Round Table.

So, in aggregate? For a medieval poem? We get enough on the schemes and manipulations.

Bastard? Not too much of one?

Manipulates a knight's honor almost the point of brainwashing, and Agravaine outright states he may have gone "an inch too far" with Colgrevance. Even in the greater work Lancelot, which hinges upon the context "Modred" is trying to subvert Lancelot, the Queen, and eventually the Round Table itself, Lancelot himself is aware of Mordred's hate, and his ambition is called a "black malady":

As much a danger then as he is now,

And quite as much a nuisance. Let his eyes

Have all the darkness in them they may hold,

But Mordred's hatred and bitterness all come from a much-validated Freudian Excuse.

Competition?

None.

Conclusion?

While Mordred doesn't count in general unlike Morgan, this, shall we say, "extracanonical" version of him does.

Edited by erazor0707 on Aug 15th 2020 at 4:34:15 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#25280: Aug 15th 2020 at 1:00:31 PM

[tup]Mordred. One of the most famous cases of Bastard Bastard in fiction.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#25283: Aug 15th 2020 at 1:24:04 PM

[tup]Mordred.

When you say "Mordred requests an audience with fellow knights Guinevere and Agravaine" you mean Colgrevance and Agravaine, right?

Also when moving my writeup for the gingerbread man, Elvanna got moved below him indentation wise. I'm pretty sure a pathfinder candidate has nothing to do with the gingerbread man, but I'm not sure where she's supposed to go.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
AnoBakaDesu Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#25285: Aug 15th 2020 at 1:35:13 PM

[tup] to Mordred. The FGO version more or less dominates my mind nowadays, but it's clear as day that Mordred is a solid keeper thanks to orchestrating the fall of Camelot no matter the adaptations of the poem.

As for Junko, with the amount of upvote, I guess I can go ahead with a temptative writeup:

For YMMV.Touhou Kanjuden Legacy Of Lunatic Kingdom:

Junko is the true mastermind behind the Lunarians' sudden relocation from the Moon, which kickstarts the game's plot. A vengeful Divine Spirit with the ability to purify anything, Junko is solely focused on trying to kill the wife of the man who killed her own son, enlisting the help of the Hell goddess Hecatia Lapislazuli to end the Lunarian hegemony and strike her target when the latter is left undefended. Junko's cunning shines when she empowers Hecatia's lowly mooks into beings of pure lifeforce to make them completely immune against Lunarian weapons, allowing the fairies to overrun the Lunar Capital and force the Lunarians into completely abandoning it. It doesn't end here, as Junko then has Hecatia trap the retreating Lunarians in the Dream World, forcing them to consider terraforming Gensokyo, which would entail the complete eradication of life on Earth. Her plan only falls apart when the Lunarians take no direct action against her for half a year, which eventually loses her interest, capping off in the heroines confronting a bored Junko who admits getting outplayed. At the end of the Extra Stage, she releases the Lunarians from the Dream World at the heroines' behest so that Gensokyo stays safe from annihilation. Even then, she muses that there'll be plenty of future opportunities to get at her mark, as the cycle of revenge will repeat itself for eternity.

A bit long, but it's a fairly comprehensive overview of Junko's actions.

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#25286: Aug 15th 2020 at 2:02:12 PM

By the way, future gave me permission to look at the Into the Woods movie. Everyone okay with me doing that tomorrow?

Edited by Bullman on Aug 15th 2020 at 4:03:00 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#25287: Aug 15th 2020 at 2:15:09 PM

Elvanna is just double indented to indicate how it’ll be on her tree; yes to Mordred; Ano I’m not in the mood to fight with you about another entry after the Star Wars thing but trim that, barring exceptional circumstances we try to stay under 200 words. Is there a reason she’s lengthier than Hans Gruber or Thanos?

AnoBakaDesu Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#25288: Aug 15th 2020 at 2:25:12 PM

[up] it's currently at 229 words, so I can trim that, no problem.

For YMMV.Touhou Kanjuden Legacy Of Lunatic Kingdom:

Junko is the true mastermind behind the Lunarians' sudden relocation from the Moon, kickstarting the game's plot. A Divine Spirit with the ability to purify anything, Junko is out for revenge after her son's death, enlisting the help of a Hell goddess to end the Lunarian hegemony and strike her target when the latter is left undefended. Junko's cunning shines when she empowers Hecatia's lowly mooks into beings of pure lifeforce to make them completely immune against the Lunarians' weapons, forcing them to abandon their Capital. Junko then has Hecatia trap the retreating Lunarians in the Dream World, forcing them to consider terraforming Gensokyo, which would entail the complete eradication of life on Earth. Her plan only falls apart when the Lunarians take no direct action against her for half a year, which eventually dissipates her anger and interest. At the end of the Extra Stage, she releases the Lunarians from the Dream World at the heroines' behest so that Gensokyo stays safe from annihilation. Even then, she muses that there'll be plenty of future opportunities to get at her mark, such is the eternal cycle of revenge.

Edited by AnoBakaDesu on Aug 15th 2020 at 6:44:39 AM

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#25290: Aug 15th 2020 at 2:27:30 PM

[tup] to Mordred

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#25292: Aug 15th 2020 at 2:46:39 PM

What about this one from Macrone of dresden files fame

"My name is something I rarely trouble to remember, but for most of my adult life, I have been called John Marcone. I am a professional monster. It sounds pretentious. After all, I’m not a flesh-devouring ghoul, hiding behind a human mask until it is time to gorge. I’m no vampire, to drain the blood or soul from my victim, no ogre, no demon, no cursed beast from the spirit world dwelling amid the unsuspecting sheep of humanity. I’m not even possessed of the mystic abilities of a mortal wizard. But they will never be what I am. One and all, those beings were born to be what they are. I made a choice."
-Gentleman Johnny Macrone, The Dresden Files : "Even Hand"

Edited by miraculous on Aug 15th 2020 at 2:48:19 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#25293: Aug 15th 2020 at 2:53:30 PM

[tup] The quote.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 15th 2020 at 4:53:25 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#25295: Aug 15th 2020 at 3:10:03 PM

Wanted to restate for the record that yes, Bull got my blessing to do Into the Woods.

Now for something from Bad Robot, the writer of The Devil Wears Prada and the director of Notting Hill (quite the combo of people to be involved with this one or anything for that matter).

What is the work?

Morning Glory is a 2010 comedy film about a highly-devoted news producer named Becky Fuller who is let go from her job due to budget reasons and because they’re giving the promotion she wanted to someone with more experience. Needing a job in her field, she’s hired by Jerry Barnes at IBS as executive producer for the failing morning news show DayBreak. Becky has also fired the utterly creepy and inconsiderate co-host and now needs a new one, so she looks to someone she is an incredibly big fan of that works at the station.

Who is he and what has he done?

Mike Pomeroy is a very experienced reporter who has been with the network a long time and is often referred to by producer Adam Bennett (who used to work for him) as “the third worst person in the world” (behind Kim Jong-il and Angela Lansbury). Mike is not currently employed at the station, but through contract, still getting paid. Becky learning he has to accept a job when it’s offered or otherwise lose his contract offers him the anchor position on the show and while offended that he’d be offered something so beneath him (he’s also shooting at ducks when she approaches him about it and scares her with the gunfire), Mike later reluctantly takes the job only to get to keep his money (while citing several of the things he did in his career, such as having lunch with Dick Cheney, getting shot in the arm in Bosnia and showing some tenderness to Mother Theresa during the Cholera pandemic).

Mike also got refusal rights to any story back in the 80s and that means can only cover or discuss the serious stuff that HE wants to focus on (and also has a ten page rider allowing him other commodities for his dressing room too). Aside from having BST fights with co-host Colleen Peck (as well as on the air trying to beat her in being the last to say goodbye), Mike also criticizes Becky’s appearance as well as the promo where he is running dramatically with a briefcase and watching the show “over your first cup of coffee” is mentioned (mocking that line specifically with “Watch Mike Pomeroy before your morning dump!”).

The night before his first show (as pointed out by Adam when he and Becky are about to get intimate), Mike plans (and pretty much attempts) to go on a bender so he can get out of it, but Becky tracks him down, makes him go home and then sleeps on his couch in order to make sure he goes in in the morning. After Mike cooks them frittata for breakfast, they go in to do the show and it doesn’t go well with Mike’s composure being intact as he discusses serious story after serious story and not breaking from it even when he continues covering a story while the heading “Sexual Offender” from a previous story is accidentally left under a picture of Jimmy Carter (he’s completely unphased). Eventually, Becky freaks out at Mike for being so difficult and while he’s shaken a little, he barely reacts (he has a lot of very funny reaction shots in this movie otherwise though).

With the ratings getting worse, Becky starts having Colleen and the weatherman Ernie doing a whole bunch of crazy things live on the air during stories while Mike look on shocked and embarrassed, gets 50 Cent to perform and Mike’s BST banter with Colleen is also shown live too (the ratings improve significantly, though still not quite there to avoid cancellation as Jerry tells Becky). Mike suggests a story about a sauerkraut festival and Becky decides to accompanying him and a cameraman only to find they’re going to the Governor’s country house upstate where Mike plans to confront him on camera about his tax returns and racketeering (Mike having followed the story closely for a while). Becky warns about the show getting canned if they can’t get the numbers up with something better, but Mike, it turns out, knew police were coming for the Governor and planned his interview at the moment they arrived and thanks to that, Daybreak covers it first and gets the boost it needs to stay on.

After the coverage of the Governor, Mike tells Becky about how his life fell apart pertaining to his family when he put more focus on work and then lost the job and how he had nothing until she gave him the shot. Becky is offered a job interview to work on The Today Show (her dream) and she strongly considers turning it down (she’s grown to care about him and the show immensely) until Mike turns down more stories (including one with Anthony Bourdain God rest) and thinking she plans to take it, gets angry and sarcastically encourages it. On the day Becky is receiving the interview, Mike realizes how much he cares about her and the show now and hoping to convince her not to go, he throws together a bunch of food and cooking supplies and wearing an apron, goes on live to cook a frittata (saying “fluffy” finally, saying he only makes them for people he really cares about).

Deeply moved, Becky (seeing what Mike did) leaves the interview and decided to stay at Daybreak (Mike also says he’ll show how to make donuts during his next cooking segment too). Her personal life with Adam improves, the show continues to flourish, Mike begins a relationship with Colleen and he apparently opens up to more suggestions about stories. The movie ends as Becky and Mike are walking to work one morning and he jokes about having his prostate exam done live and she takes it a bit too seriously, causing him to laugh when suggests a body double if he doesn’t want to be physically shown and then he says: “Not in a thousand years!”.

Is he magnificent?

His constant Only Sane Man demeanor, professionalism and devotion to the job as he sees it speak to that pretty well. While other anchors would have panicked when they accidentally leave up the Sexual Offender heading under Carter’s picture, Mike remain completely focused on what he’s saying and unfettered by it and only comments on it after the filming is finished. While Jerry (while the head of the studio is very passive as to how things are handled with Daybreak) also talks about how they didn’t use any of Mike’s pitches because they were not very appealing, the descriptions indicate subjects that Mike is nonetheless very knowledgable and well researched about. His part in the busting of the Governor is probably the height of his magnificence.

Becky has also gone into extensive detail about other times he covered the news and handled everything with complete and utter Grace (such as being the only one down at Ground Zero on 9/11 and being in Kosovo) and while we hear about many things rather than see them, Mike’s knowledge and actions demonstrate beautifully how believable it is at that he’s the one who did it all. Even when he cooks the frittata on the show at the end, he still manages to come off very dignified and competent (and does it because he knows it’s that important to Becky and as a plea to convince her to stay). His personal life admittedly suffered as he describes, but it clearly made him very good at what he does regardless.

Bastard? Too much?

He’s a very gruff, temperamental guy and on top of that, he can be condescending, but that said, his devotion and loyalty to the ethics and seriousness of the job compliment him beautifully, especially when he looks unamused in an old clip about Groundhog Day (as unamused as only Harrison Ford can usually be). It’s a little ridiculous that he refuses to say “fluffy” in a story about Easter chicks, but it goes toward him having a certain rhetoric that he wants others to respect. Again, his high and mighty attitude about work is not smug or petty, it’s just he wants others to share the same respect he has for the job and the outlet (we hear about him rejecting a story about Trump that Becky pitches to him and wow, that aged beautifully).

He makes some off-color remarks implying he slept with Becky, but he’s doing it in the context of joking and everyone else seems to be aware of that too and with his comment toward Colleen about her Papsmear (he doesn’t say that while the cameras are rolling though), he’s again making a joke and just dishing back to her what she gives to him. He’s otherwise very respectful to them both as woman and it’s not reflective of his character. Any time Mike also seems to lose his temper he also reels it back in and shows he can be very calm and reserved when the occasion calls for it (any time he seems to be losing his temper and we hear about offscreen things such as throwing a drink or one time hitting Adam and we’re not even sure he actually did that, it’s clear Mike is very in control of himself and is simply channeling it into righteous anger).

Verdict?

I think it’s safe to say [tup].

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 15th 2020 at 3:23:02 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#25297: Aug 15th 2020 at 3:28:33 PM

[tdown] Mike. I'm just seeing a jerkish Guile Hero. There's a level of baseline villainy and I don't think he's reaching that at all.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#25298: Aug 15th 2020 at 3:28:52 PM

[tup] to Mordred.

[tdown] to Mike for the same reason as J.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#25299: Aug 15th 2020 at 3:35:02 PM

[up][up] I am afraid I don't get that. I have never heard of this baseline before. Can you explain it so I can understand? Not disagreeing just confused. I don't see what separates him from say Malcolm Tucker.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 15th 2020 at 5:39:04 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#25300: Aug 15th 2020 at 3:36:28 PM

Maybe I should have mentioned the part where he constantly refers to Adam as “Senior Dipshit”. Haha. Even though Adam’s not working for him anymore, he still does it.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 15th 2020 at 3:38:21 AM


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