Ant-Man and the Wasp

Eh nothing wrong with a backstory shrouded in mystery.

I just found her a rather boring antagonist all things considered.

Plus the ending with her kinda felt cheap.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 6th 2018 at 12:22:26 PM

Hanna sold Ghost really hard. So I am sold.

One thing that occurred to me - the fact that all their costumes are effectively formfitting space suits makes the jobs of the stunt teams a whole lot easier, and gosh does it ever show. This movie had incredible fight sequences, and that must have something to do with the fact that they can use extended takes of the fighting-expert double without having to cut around their face.

Movie was fricking fun. Paul Rudd was on point with the humor, I love the story of the Pyms, lots of adorable Cassie moments (also, props to the movie for continuing the big happy family angle with Maggie and Jim joining the hugs).

And damn they are teasing Stature like crazy. I'm down for this.

Ghost was ok. They had good setup with her backstory, but her present characterization didn't pull off her being sympathetic enough. But her father figure was interesting and successfully managed to have her not jump off the slippery slope.

I think they are being set up as backup for either A4 or the next Antman. I'm curious if not totally sold yet.

Oh, and the action sequences were top notch. Lots of funny stuff with the miniaturized things, and the quantum realm is so goddamn cool.

The credits were cute.

Edited by MrSeyker on Jul 6th 2018 at 10:13:16 AM

Yeah, Ghost was weird. Her backstory paints her as very sympathetic, but nobody really seems to care in universe until the end. At the same time, she pays lip service to wanting to do horrible, deadly things to people, and her backstory mentions it, but she never actually does anything evil on screen. Her entire identity was wrapped into how characters reacted to her, and she didn’t really have a personality of her own.

And yes, they are teasing Stature so hard it hurts.

That was fun, as expected.

What I wanted to know was who Sonny was working for if HYDRA is no longer active. AIM, the Hand, Latveria?

x2 Or Stinger. Also, The fact that she isn't outright evil is the entire point. She just wants to survive.

She wasn't boring at all.

And the comic book version not having a backstory is a problem. It's why his character changes a lot from every time he shows up.

Besides, if you hate tragic villains, why would want the film version to be like the comic version? He's been portrayed as an Anti-Hero in certain stories.

Even at his worst, he's never been all that bad.

Edited by Cortez on Jul 6th 2018 at 9:14:13 AM

Not that much of problem especially when Ghost himself acknowledges he doesn’t know much about his past.

It’s pretty much a Joker situation.

Also I never said I hated Tragic Villains, just getting a bit burnt out on how every villain is given extremely pitiable sad moments.

Ghost was just kinda.... there all things considered.

It's not a Joker situation, i think your confusing Ghost with Bullseye. It's not like their are multiple and conflicting origins for Ghost like Joker and Bullseye have.

And again, Ghost isn't Card Carrying Villain, so would have gotten a sympathetic villain anyway. Again, he's even been portrayed as an Anti-Hero at times.

Edited by Cortez on Jul 6th 2018 at 9:19:35 AM

What Joker doesn’t know his own backstory half the time either.

I think Bullseye is aware as he strikes me as more sane in that sense.

He kinda is one, he really loves taking down corporations & screwing with Iron Man for fun. Really it’s how he’s normally portrayed in most mediums.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 6th 2018 at 6:19:36 AM

Ghost doesn't make multiple backstories like Joker does.

What little he has given of his past has never been contradicted.

I meant that his mind is so fucked up even he doesn’t remember his own past anymore.

Doesn’t help that he’s pretty old.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 6th 2018 at 6:22:22 AM

Wikipedia lied to me, it said there was only one post credits scene! Dammit I left too early!

Edited by Mullon on Jul 6th 2018 at 11:20:51 AM

Honestly the second one wasn't that big of a deal, just a quick laugh. Specifically A shot of the giant Ant at Scott's house obliviously playing the drum set in the aftermath of the Snap

Sidenote regarding the first post-credit scene.

I'll just say it, I don't like that Janet got snapped. Hank and Hope I can deal with, but Janet getting snapped makes the movie feel like bit like a "Shaggy Dog" Story given that rescuing her is kind of the whole point of the movie, and it means we won't be able to fully explore her quantum-realm powers until after the snap is undone.

Now this won't be as big of a problem in the long run if the snap is undone earlier in Avengers 4 then we are expecting, thus giving us a little time to explore her quantum-realm powers within Avengers 4 itself. And I do have a theory that instead they'll undo the snap early on but nearly shatter reality in the process, and the main story will be about preventing reality from falling apart completely. But that's a huge "if".

Her not being evil has little to do with the problem.

It isn't that she's not evil. As I said, the problem was that the way they wrote her left her lacking in personality of her own. She rarely does anything besides beat people up, because people are too busy talking about her or feeling sorry for her or reacting to her. The plot doesn't really commit to having her do anything but have an action scene every twenty minutes or so, and she's mostly defined by what she's not doing: she not evil enough to kill Scott unless he makes her. She's not evil enough to hurt Cassie, though it takes some convincing. She's not willing to work with our heroes. She's not this. She's not that.

What she is, however, isn't really given any space to exist beyond what we can infer from her backstory. That she wants to live is literally all there is to her.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 6th 2018 at 10:43:05 AM

Well, she wouldn't team up with Pym because she holds him guilty of what happened to her parents, and Bill has fed that sentiment over his own issues with the man.

He tries to convince her of maybe doing things a different way when they run into problems on their own later, but by then the thing is just within her graps, so she soldiers on by the ruthless methods SHIELD cultivated in her.

She's a very weird character. I wonder if this is by design or scenes got cut.

Also, she had something of a weird fixation on Scott when they captured them.

I honestly think they are setting her and Bill up for a larger role later (probably in A4).

Not to mention Pym probably did indeed get her father fired for no good reason. Paranoia about people "stealing his research" is his defining flaw.

I’d assume it’s the latter: that she did have character building scenes, but they were cut out. It would explain why the only major characterization she gets is through backstory.

Just came back from the cinema and was outraged by that post-credits scene. How dare they make me wait all those minutes for an ant beating drums?

Now, with the way Stature was teased and Scott getting stuck in the Quantum Realm, maybe Cassie will team up with Stark in a possible future - if A4 really happens years after Infinity War - in order to bring him back?

Just got back from the movie. It was really fun and better than the first.

There's no way that the offhand mention of a time vortex won't be significant in the next Avengers movie.

My current Stature-related theory for Avengers 4 is that Scott will travel to future first by accident, and discover that the world has devolved into a terrible state in the aftermath of Le Snap. In particular, he discovers that thanks to so many deaths in her family (lets say she only had Ghost left, for maximum "man, that sucks") and having grown up in said terrible world, Cassie has grown into the worst thing possible: a gritty, 90's anti-hero (or a crook or something, I dunno). Then he changes the past and she grows into a heroine instead -> setup for Young Avengers.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 7th 2018 at 4:34:47 AM

I just realized with Michelle Pfeiffer in this movie, another actor who worked in a previous DC movie showed up in a Marvel movie. However, unlike Keaton, she went from playing an Anti-Villain to being a heroine. Now we need to have Danny De Vito play a hero in a Marvel movie.

×2

That seems pretty unlikely.

Man, I am so sick of movies or TV shows that have a ghost, or a character with ghost-like abilities, or can't control the fact they can pass through objects, yet they have no problem walking on solid ground.

I also tire of the cliche where a male character get "possessed" by a female character, and the male actor feels the need to act over-the-top effeminate when the actress playing said female character doesn't behave that way at all.

Those cliche complaints aside, I enjoyed this film, and would definitely say it's better than the first Ant Man movie.

Ugh, that Stinger though....

I'm going ghost!

... None of the characters in these movies have powers that behave in physically plausible ways.

Ghost does not stand out in any way, shape or form as far as that is concerned.

Everything about how their mass and momentum works is extremely inconsistent, to the point that if you want to fan-wank it, their suits have to incorporate extremely advanced expert systems that change how much they mass on a second-by-second basis.