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Ambiguous Name (splitoff name crowner): Suddenly Voiced

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Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#1: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:04:43 PM

The trope is supposed to be about characters that are either mute are The Unintelligible suddenly speaking coherently. However, I've seen occasions in which it's used to denote someone having a voiced role for the first time. I have a feeling that the name may have thrown off some people thinking it's the latter.

Wick check, using 50 wicks:

Exhibit A: Not usually speaking or is unintelligible, speaks. This is the trope's definition.

     Wicks falling under A (Count: 22) 

Exhibit B: Voice acted for the first time. This is the common way the trope's misused.

     Wicks falling under B (Count: 13) 

Exhibit C: A little of A, a little of B. This is where I see an example with both types in one listing or separate examples with either classification.

     Wicks falling under C (Count: 4) 

Exhibit D: Uncertain. They are either Zero Context Examples or contain certain things that make them hard to place.

     Wicks falling under D (count: 11) 

Thus, I propose we need to rename to make it clearer. The misuse might not be a standalone trope on its own, as it might be People Sit on Chairs.

edited 15th Apr '18 3:12:42 PM by Berrenta

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#2: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:33:39 PM

If they go from not-voice acted to voice acted I think its a fully valid trope and probably should get the current title.

It could be related to Partial Dub or Sparse Voice Acting assuming the tropes exist which they should.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#3: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:42:29 PM

We have an ongoing repair thread for the "characters that are [mute] suddenly speaking coherently", under the header The Voiceless.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1505614851040907200

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#4: Apr 15th 2018 at 3:53:53 PM

I would say trope transplant

  • Finding Their Voice, characters who were mute or too shy to speak finding discovering their voice and such.
  • Suddenly Voiced: Characters who were previously text only suddenly get voice acted lines, beyond the basic grunting, this would include a Silent Protagonist getting promoted to speaking protagonist or demoted to extra but voiced character. It started when games jumped from 16 to 32 bit when consoles could actually play back recorded sounds and became a rule when games jumped to 64 bit. Related to Partial Dub and Sparse Voice Acting.

edited 15th Apr '18 4:53:52 PM by Memers

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#5: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:26:48 PM

Yeah, maybe we can see about a transplant.

~@crazysamaritan: I haven't seen this trope brought up there. Should we take it there, or would it be preferred that we run this separate? If so, I can bring the wick check with me, and note the two options we have so far (my rename suggestion (names TBD), Memers' transplant idea).

Then again, due to the unintended use of this trope, it's probably best if we keep it separate if possible.

edited 15th Apr '18 4:34:37 PM by Berrenta

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#6: Apr 15th 2018 at 4:55:33 PM

Only mentioned in post 5.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#7: Apr 15th 2018 at 5:13:44 PM

Ah, I must've missed that. Then again, it looked like a brief mention in relation to a trope that was brought up for discussion.

Would it be better if we move this there due to relation to The Voiceless, then, or is this different enough?

edited 15th Apr '18 5:28:14 PM by Berrenta

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Apr 15th 2018 at 7:38:21 PM

"The trope is supposed to be about characters that are either mute are The Unintelligible suddenly speaking coherently."

That's not how I read the trope's rather too brief definition. (The original description was almost identical to what it is now, only prefaced with a Wile E. Coyote quote instead of a Tom and Jerry one.) That said, I think a split might be worthwhile.

RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#9: Apr 16th 2018 at 11:56:55 AM

I agree with 4. The "misuse" fits the trope name more.

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#10: Apr 16th 2018 at 4:07:12 PM

It's not for when characters have voiced dialogue for the first time? I've only ever seen it used in that context. It gets used for video game characters who didn't have voiced lines and video game characters who speak for the first time.

RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#11: Apr 17th 2018 at 8:49:00 AM

Even the laconic and the page quote agree with the "misused" definition.

Also, there should be a clarification that it doesn't count if the character had no opportunity to speak (or to speak with an actor/voice actor) beforehand. Examples:

  • A character originally appears in print media (literature, comic book, etc.) and has plenty of dialogue, but it's in text only due to the nature of the work. The work is adapted into animation or live-action and he speaks with a voice.
  • A character originally appears for five seconds in the background of one scene of Film 1. He has a minor speaking role in the sequel, Film 2.
  • A character only interacts with the rest of the cast through text messages/a computer terminal/etc. When he finally meets someone in real life, he speaks.

None of these are examples, as there is no opportunity for the character to speak beforehand.

If a silent comic book character suddenly starts speaking in the comics or speaks in an adaptation, it is an example.

If a video game character gains a voice actor due to technological advances making it possible, it's borderline, but consensus seems to be an example. If a character suddenly speaks without it being caused by the jump to 64-bit, it's fairly obviously an example.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#12: Apr 17th 2018 at 9:04:54 AM

[up] Yeah all those are misuse for both.

I was thinking more for the transplanted trope. Character in a previous entry had no speaking voice but in a sequel they get one or in a rerelease get one. I see 2 types

  • Type 1 in The Legend Of Heroes Trails Of Cold Steel the PC port received 50% more voice acting so suddenly people who were never voiced before were. The Japanese only remakes of The Legend Of Heroes Trails In The Sky also took a previously voiceless game and added a ton of voice acting.
  • Type 2 in both versions of the direct Sequel The Legend OF Heroes Trails Of Cold Steel 2 some previously voiceless characters got voice actors and lines. However the inverse also happened, previously voiced characters didn't get voiced lines some with just as large of roles as in the previous entry.
  • Books and such that get voices in adaptations IMO would not count unless they are 'canon' in the continuity and consistent. Such as Cloud in Final Fantasy VII who was voiceless but then got a voice in the canon sequel movie and the same VA in subsequent appearances, seemingly the future remake as well.

As for the trope described, I am thinking more like Dagger in Final Fantasy IX who loses her voice in story due to trauma (which outright affects gameplay) then later gets it back and the recovery is heavily played as a surprise. However the game is entirely text, she has had no physical voice anywhere ever.

edited 17th Apr '18 9:05:27 AM by Memers

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#13: Apr 18th 2018 at 9:41:49 PM

I was thinking: If we decide to have Suddenly Voiced be about voice acting, would making it Trivia be a good idea? A lot of acting tropes are in Trivia, and it doesn't affect the plot in any way.

As for the other definition, a name idea I have is Suddenly Speaking.

I may fire up a crowner when I get the chance, tomorrow at the earliest. Unless if someone else wants tofire one up, by all means, do so.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#14: Apr 18th 2018 at 10:49:40 PM

I don’t know, I don’t think it would be trivia since we list the voice actors right on the character page and all these would have some kind of astrix on there name leading to this trope.

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#15: Apr 20th 2018 at 9:43:18 AM

We'll see. Anyways, started a crowner.

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#16: Apr 27th 2018 at 8:20:57 PM

One more nudge for votes to ensure that we have a winner.

Berrenta MOD Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#17: May 6th 2018 at 9:15:13 AM

Calling in favor of "voiced for the first time".

I'll switch in a crowner to decide the name of the trope being split off ("silent character speaks"). Anyone who wants to volunteer can TLP a draft; name can be adjusted later before launch.

I started off the crowner with two ideas brought up. As for the subpages, the Playing With will be scrapped, the Quotes page looked over, and the laconic redone.

edited 6th May '18 9:36:59 AM by Berrenta

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#18: May 6th 2018 at 10:05:00 AM

I am late to the party and don't see the difference between the two tropes being split. Any help?

Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#19: May 6th 2018 at 11:24:47 AM

One of them is when a character was mute for any reason and they suddenly speak. This can apply to any medium, even print-based, and unlike the other definition, can happen midway. Right now, a crowner is deciding its name, since it's being split off from the original.

The other is when an existing character receives voice work for the first time, which is common for adaptations of print media as well as videogames released during the dawn of 3D. This is the definition we chose for Suddenly Voiced.

Overlap is possible between the two.

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#20: May 6th 2018 at 12:07:21 PM

I got confused as well, thinking that we were talking about the new name for "Recurring Extra gets a Voice Actor".

As for "mute character suddenly starts talking"....

  • The Voiceless: In movies, The Voiceless almost invariably says a line towards the end of the film — usually it's something complex and/or profound.
  • The Silent Bob: Another aspect of this trope is that it's normally incredibly significant when these characters speak
  • Silent Partner: (examples mention characters talking)

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#21: May 6th 2018 at 6:32:22 PM

Why is Suddenly Voiced not an option for the crowner? IMO, it makes more sense to keep that name and find something else for the adaptational voice job.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#22: May 6th 2018 at 6:38:10 PM

^^ The trope we are discussing here seems to be a situational trope and can apply to any of the character tropes you mention. The reference should be potholed though to show that when it happens it's a different trope.

darkchiefy Since: Jul, 2015
#23: May 21st 2018 at 12:49:38 PM

Suddenly Speaking seems to have the most support.

Berrenta MOD Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#24: Jun 1st 2018 at 4:59:52 PM

Okay, looks like we're calling in favor of Suddenly Speaking for "voiceless speaks."

Do we have a volunteer to fire up a TLP draft? Or shall we open up a sandbox?

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#25: May 30th 2019 at 12:07:49 PM

I've just noticed this hasn't been discarded despite it being a year old. Should it be moved along?

PageAction: SuddenlyVoiced
20th Apr '18 9:38:16 AM

Crown Description:

As it stands, Suddenly Voiced was given two interpretations:

  1. A mute character suddenly speaks up
  2. A character is given voice work for the first time

This crowner will determine which definition to use.

Total posts: 51
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