I'm not assuming anything either. The point is that Canto Blight, as fun and cool as a 'rich casino planet' is, doesn't fit with the rather TIGHT timeline and conflict that the rest of the story is going with.
I'd argue that even Ray's storyline, seeming to take place over a much longer period of time, seems a bit out of sync with the rest of the story but I'd argue its still 'ok' if simply because we really don't have much placing Ray's story in reference to the ship chase besides Ray must meet back up with everyone for the finale.
Canto Blight simply does not fit the rest of the story and the ideas it has 'There are people profiting off of both sides of the war' could be probably built off on the FO Ship by simply Finn and Rose sneaking around. Maybe they see a bunch of crates of supplies that we estabilished earlier as on the Resistance ship (since 'We don't have a lot of supplies' is already a plot point, it should be easy to introduce').
Its a good idea that doesn't fit the rest of the movie that its in. And that's ok. But it should have been cut in drafting after it was introduced, regardless of when it came up in development.
That would be far more interesting and less heavy-handed than what we got. One problem with the Canto Bight themes is that we don't get to know any characters who actually represent the war profiteering and sell-to-both-sides angle they wanted to bring up, it comes up as something Rose already knows and afterwards checking out the computer of the ship they just stole. It's themes that break away from the narrative, talking about it rather than showing.
Imagine they are scrambling for supplies on the Raddus and they have some relevant dialogue about who supplies the Resistance. Then on the infiltration mission in the Supremacy Finn and Rose talk about how to beat the First Order, with both having variants on the idea that once they are gone everything will be better. Then while in a supply room they find crates made by the exact same manufacturer. That does SO MUCH MORE to establish how deep the problem is than just blaming it on random rich people in Space Vegas, because it creates a set-up and payoff. And it's done without a detour to Space Vegas. The deleted scenes even showed that you could do more developing in how Finn feels going back into hostile territory, while building tension over the threat of being discovered.
Another problem with Canto Bight, imo, is that we've seen this whole "people who don't take a side, yet prosper anyway" type of dynamic done better and in a way that more logically fits into the SW universe (again imo) with Jabba the Hutt, or Boba Fett, or Hondo from TCW, or even Dryden Vos in this movie, etc.
Canto Bight felt like the director wanting to go on a glorified tangent about rich people imo, but it really didn't fit into the rest of the film, nor does it really affect the rest of the plot in any real way.
The whole weapons dealer plot would have only worked if they had an actual New Republic force on screen and put some effort into the plot line.
As it is it is not believable in the Star Wars universe since there was actual world building on who built what and for who and what tech was stolen or repurposed.
As much as Canto Bight may have clashed with the Stern Chase of the movie, thematically it really had to be there, or else none of the movie would have... made sense?
Like, Canto is where effectively the thesis of the movie is posited. The most important scene wasn't story-related, it was when Finn goes "we wrecked some shit. That was worth it" and then Rose frees the not-Tauntaun and goes "No, now it was worth it." I'm not sure how a similar scene could have fit into the narrative otherwise, and as heavy-handed as I thought the scene was, a lot of viewers apparently didn't seem to get it.
Also, and this is minor, Canto gave us the final scene of the movie (the kid with the broom), which I think is easily the single best moment in the sequel trilogy.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Canto Bight is clearly meant to be a hinge of the movie. It is meant to be the only victory the heroes have out of all the plot lines. Really I feel like if any thing the script should have beefed Canto Bight up and made it feel more important.
Meanwhile the Rey and Kylo plot is so long and meandering, it could easily have been cut down (and I understand that it was a little bit in the editing room, just not nearly as much as the Finn and Rose storyline) and that bother's me because the script treats Canto Bight as being thematically important but the actual film doesn't do that justice.
I've heard several people suggest that the chase should have been cut out (either entirely or down to literally just the first five minutes of the movie), and then have the FO laying siege to the fortress on Crait. That gives a lot more leeway in how the Closed Circle works, and gives more space to beef up some other plotlines and weave them together better.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.In terms of "thesis" there is nothing at Canto Bight that needs to be at Canto Bight. As I said, we don't really meet anyone important there that represents what we are supposed to hate about that society. There is no Jabba, Lando, Vos, or even a Boss Nass that fleshes out the personality of this location and its people. In terms of the narrative, the only thing they did to deserve the stampede was lock up Finn and Rose for parking illegally, and that makes the whole "Felt good to get back at them, even a little" fall flat. It also gives rise to a "All rich people are evil war profiteers" thesis (which is why the stampede is supposed to be a justified retaliation) that is absurdly black and white even for Star Wars, especially for a movie that is trying to say things are not that black and white.
Regarding the overall structure of the movie, it needed to be reworked from the ground up. If it's supposed to be a Stern Chase, keep us with the Stern Chase so it feels like a countdown. If it's supposed to be broader in scale, Canto Bight is a perfectly fine location for other plot-related stuff. As mentioned about focusing on a siege of Crait, imagine if they are trying to recruit a potential Resistance cell to help stage a rescue attempt and those at Canto Bight refuses and locks them up. THAT would justify the stampede in their breakout.
Edited by KJMackley on Sep 18th 2018 at 10:10:31 AM
Canto Bight is kind of import if only because its the ONLY world building we see in the ST outside of the conflict. Like, until Canto Bight I had no idea about how this new Republic felt.
You could have kept TLJ as a closed circle sure, but I think it really would have exasperated TFA's major issue of the galaxy just feeling like a stranger we know nothing about.
I remember it was a common critisim before the PT came out. Few people felt like they understood what it was like to live in the setting. It led to a lot of rooting for the empire.
I remember lots of arguments over playing a Star Wars game and no one agreeing what anything outside of Tattooween/the rebelion/the empire ranks looked like.
I actually love how Rogue One and Solo flesh out how living under the empire feels. Rebels even more so! I'm really looking forward to Resistance for much the same reason. That looks like it's actually about civilians as well so all the better.
Edited by Whowho on Sep 18th 2018 at 6:34:11 PM
Yeah I love that the Empire explicitly profits from all the crime rings. A nice bit of world building I like from Solo is that on Correlia when they get the coaxium they're like "this is our ticket out of here!" and its not because they're gonna sell it, it's because they're gonna use it as a bribe!
Also, I like how in Solo we see a new rebel cell who have a completely different mode of operation from the rebel alliance. Going after the Empire's funds by taking down the crime syndicates.
Being closed off for the first overall arc of the universe is fine - it's the first foray, after all, and smaller scale is typically (though not always) better for introduction.
However, trying to make a hard shift back to being closed off after forty years of subsequent expansion and worldbuilding - at least for the primary story - is a really bad idea, and it's one of the notable problems with the sequel trilogy's attempts to copy the tone and beats of the original trilogy. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube: the universe is bigger now, so now when you go closed off the story feels incomplete rather than simply small.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 18th 2018 at 10:41:03 AM
You're saying all of them ARE okay with child slavery and animal cruelty?
The real Las Vegas has regular issues with unions, is everyone who visits Las Vegas okay with scab workers? Does that justify leading a stampede through a casino? That's the flaw with that moral reasoning, the heroes have known about this for a half hour and caused some chaos that really doesn't do anything to fix the problem, the child-workers/child-slaves (it's never really explained which they are) are still stuck in that job and the animals will likely be rounded up the next day, but "It felt good" to harass all the rich people. And by all accounts no one noticed Finn and Rose until they were tied into the illegal parking, so it wasn't until they caused a problem that they were arrested. Even being bothered for not following the dress code would have justified it better.
It reminds me of an episode of How I Met Your Mother that I hated called "Robots vs. Wrestlers," where the characters crash an upscale party and proceed to judge, mock and harass all the guests for being pretentious, even though they were never invited to be there. Vilifying an entire society for not being a perfect utopia is hypocritical, if you judge someone by the worst parts no one comes out looking good.
Edited by KJMackley on Sep 18th 2018 at 10:51:36 AM
While I also didn't like that episode, I think you've got two episodes confused. If I recall correctly, in Robots vs. Wrestlers they're not that impolite, the point is that they're Fish out of Water. I only remember them being out of place and bored, but not rude. Mind you, off hand I only remember Marshall's scene ("Willem." "De-FOE!"). Most of the gang's rudeness was directed at Ted, not strangers.
Now them actually being rude to pretentious to strangers was when they went to the black tie gala at the Natural History Museum (which is where they meet The Captain).
Of course, my memory could absolutely be wrong. Haven't gone back to the series since it ended.
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When my arguments are a criticism that these plotlines do nothing to enhance the story and should have been dropped or repurposed, I'm not assuming anything. Now I was speculating a little as to their exact origin based on educated guesses of how filmmaking works, but that has little to do with the argument itself.