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Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1326: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:22:49 PM

You know, one of the things I really appreciate as we wait for the next update is that Cagle tends to avoid doing the obvious or cruel thing when tension gets high. If something awful happens, it will be interestingly awful, and if something happens to break the tension and make things a little better, it will still feel wonderfully cathartic.

I feel like in a lot of ways, she's cracked the code of this Dark Magical Girl Story thing...

Edited by Durazno on Feb 28th 2020 at 8:28:34 AM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1327: Feb 28th 2020 at 6:56:26 PM

Oh yeah. They've certainly gotten better, but for a while there most m-girl series were on the same level as '90s Anti-Hero. This is the most traditional magical girl series I've seen that mixes light-hearted and dark well, but there are plenty of non-traditional ones. She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is basically a Magical Girl Warrior show, and Star vs. the Forces of Evil is sort of a reverse-isekai. Both combine bright visuals and characters with serious plots (and silly plots).

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#1328: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:14:13 PM

Both of those are American, though - what's the trend in Japan? Is there one still?

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#1329: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:24:04 PM

On one hand, you have for example the Precure franchise which is still going strong and is as far as I understand in a more optimistic/classic magical girl tone.

On the other, you have things like Spec Ops Asuka, Magical Girl Site and Magical Girl Raising Project which many, including Cube, summed up as a competition on how much they can put the girls through. Some consider Madoka to be of this type too (personally, I think in the end it isn't as bad as MGS or MGRP).

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1330: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:26:47 PM

I was originally under the impression that Madoka was of that type, but I've been hearing recently it's not as bad as a lot of the others that followed in its wake.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1331: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:27:43 PM

Mary Cagle and Phoenix Feet's podcast Anime Slushie has discussed many of the post-Madoka dark magical girl shows, and they seem to mostly be pretty dire. Kind of a Watchmen situation, where the creators don't understand what made Madoka work.

Though I guess it's also important to remember that more traditional magical girl shows aren't always afraid to go dark.

akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#1332: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:33:18 PM

[up] Yep. Another good example of that is Sailor Moon at times. I heard it said that if some of the more traditional series, like some of the Precures or Sailor Moon, were put in 13 episode seasons instead of going for 40/50 episodes, the effect would be much darker because there would be less time for other (funny, heartwarming) stuff to get a breather between the serious arcs - and Sailor Moon Crystal, especially season 3, was a perfect proof of that.

Even Doremi didn't shy away from serious topics (see Aiko's family situation or the building up plot of the Ojamajos each building their own lives outside of magic just as they are graduating elementary).

@ Discar: It's really not as egregious in Madoka as in, for example, Magical Girl Raising Project and miles removed from Magical Girl Site. I say it may be worth checking out, though I did see Madoka back when it first came out so I may be biased ("Seinfeld" Is Unfunny and Hype Aversion are things for a reason).

Edited by akanesarumara on Feb 28th 2020 at 8:36:21 PM

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#1333: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:59:45 AM

Although, as I've said before, this strip isn't "dark," exactly. To some extent, it tries to have its cake and eat it, asking us to marvel at Rue, Cassidy, Zoe, the designs in general, to laugh at Bud's antics, at all the girls' foibles, while reminding us that the city - the world as far as anyone In-Universe knows - is set up, by gods rather than men, to run on the blood of little girls.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1334: Feb 29th 2020 at 1:01:16 AM

I'm not sure that I'd characterize that as having its cake and eating it, honestly. Sleepless Domain is just focusing primarily on one tragedy, rather than a constant parade of them, and allowing room for other stuff in the world.

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#1335: Feb 29th 2020 at 1:49:01 AM

The thing is, while I expect that plot-wise, that's going to be the only such incident, there are endless indicators that it's not all that uncommon. "Risking our lives"; "three more girls died tonight"; "the worst such incident since...." I don't think we're supposed to forget that, to forget that these little girls are as likely to die as roofers.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#1336: Feb 29th 2020 at 4:54:52 AM

The thing with Madoka is that the suffering isn't the point. It's the means, not the end, and more importantly, it's not the focus: the discussions on hope, despair and all the other usual Magical Girl tropes is what the focus is. It's concerned with deconstructing the genre, questioning it's usual tropes and what lies behind them in a setting that is not so relentlessly positive and heroically-oriented. The suffering, itself, is a by-product of the point that is being made.

A lot of post-Madoka shows don't really get that. They equate "having a dark Magical Girl show" with "These girls need to suffer every terrible act mankind is capable of conjuring up", which puts the suffering into focus instead of the reasons for it, thus completely missing the point of Madoka, that the suffering the girls went through was largely as a result of their own actions and choices. It's just suffering for the sake of suffering, darkness for the sake of darkness, which doesn't really mean anything other than a depiction of torture porn, especially in cases like Asuka.

Sleepless Domain actually gets it a bit better (presumably due to how much Cube likes to discuss these shows, and how she's shown come careful attention to those points before). It focuses on how the girls (or, more specificaly, Undine, Tessa and HP) deal with the tragedies that surrounds them, both as girls and as Magical Girls, and, through Goops, will likely explore where these tragedies come from (although that depends on whatever Goops' real nature is). It's a concept that's far more in line with Madoka than a lot of these shows, to my mind.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#1337: Feb 29th 2020 at 6:46:37 AM

Cube has a poll going:

"Hey Random Question: For people who read Sleepless Domain, what gender are ya?"

https://twitter.com/cubewatermelon/status/1233755904341938177?s=19

Edit: Poll has now closed.

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 1st 2020 at 8:27:27 AM

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#1338: Feb 29th 2020 at 8:59:50 PM

Wait, where did we see a magical girl wanted poster?

Does anyone actually read these?
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#1339: Mar 1st 2020 at 7:38:22 AM

Second panel here.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1340: Mar 1st 2020 at 11:49:36 AM

Looking back at old pages, this one has a little bit that's intriguing, and the thread probably talked about when it was new, but I don't remember.

The note "I hate this place" implies that our scholar has a frame of reference for other places. It only implies it, of course - heaven knows, I've said "I hate this place" about planet Earth many times, but it's on my mind now. What's out there?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#1341: Mar 1st 2020 at 11:54:26 AM

I don't think we've ever discussed that specifically. Though I think there's a theory that the man with the mouse, I forget his name offhand, may be from outside the barriers. He seems the only one who sees the use of teenage girls as monster fighters he way we would and possesses weapons that seem beyond the technology level of the city (which I'd place about 1980s-ish, given the presence of televisions and corded telephones but apparent lack of computers)

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1342: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:11:56 PM

Yeah, it seems likely to be his journal, since this is apparently someone who isn't supposed to be skulking around at night.

I wonder if he'll ever meet Rue.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#1343: Mar 1st 2020 at 1:38:40 PM

The journal is definitely from the perspective of an outside observer, and yeah, the guy with the mouse is the prime suspect.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#1344: Mar 1st 2020 at 3:22:53 PM

Would be interesting if this "Ellie" mentioned on that page shows up later.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1345: Mar 1st 2020 at 7:17:53 PM

Oh yeah, like the implication is that she's probably dead, but if it turns out he'd lost contact with her for some other reason - like she disappeared into this crazy city - that would also be fun.

Oddly, the idea of people living outside of the barrier reminds me of that old fantasy novel, The Night Land. In that, the last millions of humanity live in a titanic arcology called The Great Redoubt, surrounded by a dark, hellish wasteland haunted by monsters, mutants, and worse. When our hero sets out on his quest, he discovers that the Night Land isn't quite as bad once you get further away from the Great Redoubt, because of course the forces of darkness are crowding around it, hoping to get in.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#1346: Mar 4th 2020 at 1:15:49 PM

...this happened earlier than I expected.

I guess the next chapter is going to be a direct continuation to this one, then. Which makes me worried as to what's about to happen during this night.

Well, whatever happens, it's on Cassidy's heads now.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Mar 4th 2020 at 6:19:00 AM

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1347: Mar 4th 2020 at 1:24:07 PM

Oh! Minor detail that I appreciated in the previous strip - that Cassidy had grounded her scissors and moved away from them. That feels like an important detail, though physically standing down is simply the smart thing to do in that situation.

Good luck, Undine...

FoominBlue Since: Jan, 2001
#1348: Mar 4th 2020 at 1:44:53 PM

...Well. Shit. Looks like it's going to be a long, dramatic night...

Blueeyedrat Since: Oct, 2010
#1349: Mar 4th 2020 at 1:51:18 PM

Bad mahouing here from all parts. This whole situation could have been resolved if one of these girls just mahoued up and and said a wordy speech about friendship while clutching their heart! That's like day 1 stuff. What is this school even teaching them?

TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#1350: Mar 6th 2020 at 7:09:28 AM

The note "I hate this place" implies that our scholar has a frame of reference for other places. It only implies it, of course - heaven knows, I've said "I hate this place" about planet Earth many times, but it's on my mind now. What's out there?

I don't know about "I hate this place," but "locals barely care" definitely seems to imply it. And even "I hate this place" is less telling than the sentence right before it, when he complains that rain without clouds "doesn't make sense," when he shouldn't have ever known firsthand a world where that didn't happen. Also, I don't think we've heard anyone else say "Jesus." (...technology? What technology?)

Edited by TwinBird on Mar 6th 2020 at 10:22:40 AM

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.

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