Complete Monster

Yeah, that would be my preference, I am no expert on that franchise, but I assume some tyrant trying to take over the world would be more in line with the show than some Se7en Style Serial killer.

Edited by Overlord on May 31st 2020 at 4:10:53 AM

Okay, it's out of place... So? What does it matter? We have plenty of other garbage works on the trope, what makes this any different from any of the shitty horror movies I've done? If they have plots and characterization, what's the reason to exclude them? RTDE fics are usually Troll Fic anyways, so they'd be out.

Stuff with out of place stuff isnt even automatically poorly written, as we established a while go

Shock and troll works should be out of consideration entirely, no matter how "well written" they may be.

Also, I bowed out of discussing specific examples ages back, but it makes me worry that MLP characters are even considered, unless we are still talking about AU fics and such here, not the canon show. Heck, I still see the occasional troper arguing about fucking Spongebob characters despite us ruling them out a long time ago, so it makes me concerned that standards are falling.

Edited by Fighteer on May 31st 2020 at 11:12:28 AM

AUs are fine. My issue is that if you have a fic that is still set in the canon series and they add graphic content to it, kind of like in a Troll Fic, that is where those types of fics would be excluded.

Edited by AustinDR on May 31st 2020 at 8:14:28 AM

Thing is, nobody here has been arguing in favor of shock/troll works- if anything is under debate at this point it's the Original Flavor fics that add an extra dose of darkness to the normal setting and world; fics that can't really be lumped in as trolls or shock works because just as often as they're lazy or sloppy they can be well-written and serious. I don't want to bog this thread down or keep going in circles, but I still feel like nobody has adequately answered why these ones are also bad- just that they're not "re-imaginings" so they're not being counted.

Is it because Complete Monsters need to be from "Original" works and these fanfics are far more derivative? Is it the Heinous Standard thing, like I asked before? Or is it more about the possibility that these fics would lead to the shock/horror ones being discussed despite the rules?

I sorry if I sound like I'm harping on a single point, especially since I'm not a thread participant; I just don't feel like this question was ever actually answered. People keep bringing up these stories as things to discount or avoid, but nobody has gone into depth about why it's bad that they're not re-imagining the setting and characters- they just keep saying it's bad. I'll leave it alone after this, but I'm just very confused and nothing in this debate has really explained the main point of my confusion for me.

Edited by WarJay77 on May 31st 2020 at 11:17:49 AM

No one is defending Shock or Troll fics. I'm all for excluding that stuff.

But isn't that basically already handled with the "no plotless edginess" rule?

"Fic with significantly darker elements then canon" is a really broad description, and it seems most of the stuff that's not conductive to the Trope is already handled with the above rule

Edited by Kylotrope on May 31st 2020 at 5:29:55 AM

We do have the "no plotless edginess rule." Ultimately the only thing I can say is that it will perpetually be case-by-case. I mean if we are talking about the MLP TV specials, and you'd have a villain like Tirac, I'd have no problem with it. I guess I am biased with saying that putting dark elements in MLP: FiM that does not indicate that this is supposed to be a "reimagining," but that is how I feel.

Yes, we do not want pointless exploitative garbage, but the only thing I can say there is that I just do not approve of making a fic that is basically the show and then make it dark without much reason. I get that the comics apparently have more leeway, but that is the dispute as I see it. Ultimately case by case, but if there are fics that come up that are objectionable then they'd be discarded.

See, my question this entire time isn't whether or not these things constitute a re-imagining, it's why only the re-imagining fanfics are being counted as valid works to look at. I'm asking why it's bad that they don't re-imagine these things and why that matters when in the context of CM characters. Reiterating that it's not a re-imagining doesn't explain anything.

Ultimately, at the least, the fic should provide a reason as to why they are like this. Hence case-by-case. A fanfic by itself is a different media.

Edited by AustinDR on May 31st 2020 at 8:36:23 AM

I can see what you mean even if I I don't agree.

My 2 cents?

The author had an idea for a story involving Charachters from a cartoon they like, And the author enjoys writing dark stories. I don't see why the author would feel some responsibility to give an In-Universe justification for why things are darker.

Wether there good ideas for stories can definetly be debated. But the concern should just be if the Fic is just a troll fic and the like or not.

In addition, putting aside the hypothetical scenarios from say, Thomas the Tank engine or MLP, think on this rule would apply to Fan Works in general.

Gravity Falls? Adventure time? Both of those have dark undertones, so it makes sense why an Author would have an idea to put them in a far darker story like involving without feeling the need to make it an AU.

Heck, with RWBY, the show has tons of dark stuff with Murder, Terrorism, Abuse and the like. So I can see why an Author would make a story with it but with darker elements without feeling the need to change the setting.

Edited by Kylotrope on May 31st 2020 at 6:13:13 AM

I already said that in regards to those shows like Adventure Time where there are dark undertones already in the show (I mean it's set in a post-apocalyptic world for one), I am fine with that.

I proposed something at the main thread: Substantial plot.

If there is a plot to it, even a reinterpretation, reimagining, fanfics, etc. We can consider it. Even if the fanfic is, you know, something darker with worse crimes, if it goes to the trouble of having a narrative, consider it.

Edited by Lightysnake on May 31st 2020 at 9:55:45 AM

I agree there.

I'm all for that.

Yeah, Lighty, that's a great idea.

I agree with Lighty.

I'm on board with substantial plot.

Agreed.

Sounds good to me

Substantial plot seems fair.

Makes sense to me, too.

Tenthed.

Sure let's go with that.

So, does that mean were chopping the "Realistic by settings standards" rule?

Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 11th 2020 at 7:17:43 AM