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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#1: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:26:28 PM

So I thought while the movie is undergoing development we could start rediscovering the comic. I've started reading the 1984 run by Jack Kirby and I'm amazed. The Fourth World is everything. It is a World of Ham of absolute epic magnitude. While, say, Chris Claremont's X-Men went for a similarly epic tone, the result there was often comical. NOT SO HERE. Somehow, Jack Kirby manages to make this WORK, getting the reader SWEPT UP in the GRAND narrative of the world-SHATTERING conflict of the GODS for freedom ITSELF! And that, despite the MULTIPLE EXCLAMATION POINTS!! WHAT IS THIS MAGIC?! WHY DO I CARE? WHY AM I NOT LAUGHING? AND WHO, WHO IS THE FILM-MAKER WHO COULD POSSIBLY CONVEY SUCH A SENSE OF MAGNITUDE?

Heck, even the teleport devices are called BOOM TUBES. Incoming HAM is BUILT into the PHYSICS of the SETTING!

Also, Darkseid is.

How does a villain with a name so stupid, which he chose, on purpose, get away with being so awesome and fearsome?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#2: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:29:11 PM

Objection!

Darkseid's name is not stupid!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#3: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:31:11 PM

What's with the constant all caps?

Anyway I like forward to it.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#4: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:32:07 PM

I think it's because they shout in capslock in the comics or something.they tend to be pretty hammy

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#5: Mar 19th 2018 at 3:35:13 PM

"There came a time when the Old Gods died! The brave died with the cunning! The noble perished, locked in battle with the unleashed evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust! The final moment came with the fatal release of the indescribable power — which tore the home of the Old Gods asunder — split it in great halves — and filled the universe with the blinding death-flash of its destruction! In the end there were two giant molten bodies, spinning slow and barren — clean of all that had gone before — adrift in the fading sounds of cosmic thunder... Silence closed upon what had happened — a long, deep silence — wrapped in massive darkness... it was this way for an age... THEN—THERE WAS NEW LIGHT!"

The prologue at the beginning of the first issue of New Gods.

EVERYONE TALKS LIKE THAT. ALL THE TIME. IT SOMEHOW DOESN'T GET TIRESOME. I DON'T GET IT.

Can we get Peter Cullen to do the narration?

Come to think of it, wouldn't you say there's a similarity between the eternal conflict of New Genesis and Apokolips and that between Autobots and Decepticons?

edited 19th Mar '18 3:39:00 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#6: Mar 19th 2018 at 4:50:14 PM

Is Ed Asner still alive? Ed for Granny Goodness. tongue

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#7: Mar 19th 2018 at 5:35:43 PM

When Issue 1 said it was “an epic for our times” they were not joking.

You have to capture that.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#8: Mar 19th 2018 at 5:58:30 PM

Ava DuVernay (who's directing the movie since no one brought it up) shared a page from New Gods.

It'd be awesome if we got some references to Mister Miracle (2017), if only because that's the only New Gods story I've ever read.

Speaking of, since when did people use the term "Darkseid is."? I thought it started with Tom King's Mister Miracle, but apparently the phrase had been around longer than that?

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#9: Mar 21st 2018 at 5:36:40 PM

Its been around since 1998, JLA: Rock of Ages, written by Grant Morrison, which dealt with a potential future when Darkseid won.

NogaiKhan pic unrelated from close enough Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: On the prowl
pic unrelated
#10: Mar 21st 2018 at 6:57:16 PM

DuVernay's only other big budget film was a critical and financial disaster, and the DC properties in general are in hot water. Color me skeptical.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#11: Mar 21st 2018 at 7:20:05 PM

Sure, but Du Vernay didn't write Wrinkle. Pretty much all the films she has written have done well financially and critically.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#12: Mar 22nd 2018 at 12:05:53 AM

I thought Wrinkle did fairly well for itself, for a family movie.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#13: Mar 22nd 2018 at 1:02:27 AM

[up][up] She certainly had influence on the script. Which is one of the main problems of the movie, because those people who don't like Wrinkle in Time seem to be mostly (but not exclusively) people who actually know the book and are not pleased that what is a careful examination of complex themes in a way that children can understand them and in general an appeal to always consider the perspective of other people instead of judging them prematurely has been boiled down to a "find yourself and become bad-ass" fantasy story.

Marvel talked to her about Black Panther and felt that she was a bad fit. I somehow can't imagine that she would be a better fit for New Gods.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#14: Mar 22nd 2018 at 2:33:09 AM

She certainly had influence on the script.

Do you have any source for this please?

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#15: Mar 22nd 2018 at 5:41:34 AM

[up][up]Yeah, nothing in her filmography really says she can tell “AN EPIC FOR OUR TIMES!”

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#16: Mar 22nd 2018 at 5:55:00 AM

[up]how many superhero movies did the Russos do before they got two Captain America films again?

edited 22nd Mar '18 7:07:06 AM by windleopard

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#17: Mar 22nd 2018 at 7:04:26 AM

I knowyou dislike Captain America, but I don't think it's fair to accuse the Russos of being Russians tongue

But yeah, I agree with your point. There's really nothing in the Russo's previous filmographies that would have suggested they'd do a great job with the MCU films (which they did), especially in terms of the really good fight choreography, since I don't think anything they did previously was "actiony".

But no one really questioned them. It seems to be only something female directors get.Thinking of course of Patty Jenkins, especially in terms of the downplaying of her previous work.

And with Jenkins pre-Wonder Woman and the Russos as a comparison, I'm not particularly worried abot New Gods.

Because people in the movie business are unsurprisingly knowledgable of movies themselves, which means that people who haven't previously made action movies can often do them very well (see Jenkins and the Russos), because they've watched a lot of them. Reminds me of an interview with one of the Game of Thrones episode directors, I think Miguel Sapochnik, where he cited all of these cinematic inspirations that were surprising given his previous work, but not really surprising in the sense that "of course someone in Hollywood is very knowledgeable of movies and film-making techniques".

edited 22nd Mar '18 7:04:50 AM by Hodor2

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18: Mar 22nd 2018 at 7:25:28 AM

Marvel talked to her about Black Panther and felt she was a bad fit.

You’ve got that backwards. Ava was the one who chose to leave the project, not Marvel firing her.

edited 22nd Mar '18 7:25:42 AM by Tuckerscreator

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#19: Mar 22nd 2018 at 9:03:28 AM

Good point. Also wanted to add that I will admit that it's not quite encouraging that Wrinkle was evidently a disappointment. Because while it's not exactly the same thing, it's in the fantasy genre and demands a certain amount of epicness.

So, I'll say give Ava one more chance. I call it the Josh Trank/ Colin Trevorrow rule.

Also, I remembered that in terms of MCU directors, while their particular interests and stylistic choices were definitely evident in Black Panther and Thor Ragnarok, I don't think that Ryan Coogler and Taika Waiti would necessarily have been expected to do as well as they did, based on their past filmography. Which again is why I don't think filmography is as dispositive as people might think.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#20: Mar 22nd 2018 at 10:37:49 AM

Wrinkle wasn't even bad, it was just...meh. I barely knew what the original books were when I'd heard of it, I never read them, and when I saw the film my consensus was that I didn't like it but that it was harmless and at worst mildly annoying. Maybe if I read the books I'd like it less but really, she deserves a shot.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
NogaiKhan pic unrelated from close enough Since: Nov, 2017 Relationship Status: On the prowl
pic unrelated
#21: Mar 22nd 2018 at 3:29:37 PM

I thought Wrinkle did fairly well for itself, for a family movie.
It costed $103 million to make and had a $33 million opening weekend. Generally speaking a modern film needs to earn about twice its combined advertising and production cost to break even, giving Wrinkle a break-even point of about $400 million according to Forbes (the film costed $103 million to make and around the same to market, $100 million being a pretty standard advertising budget for a big fantasy movie in the one hundred to two hundred million range). If it's lucky, it'll leg it out like the other March Disney biggies (Alice in Wonderland, Oz: The Great and Powerful, etc.), making around x3 its opening weekend in total, and hitting $100m domestic. If it's not lucky, it'll flameout like Where the Wild Things Are which snagged a $32m debut weekend but then ended with just $77m domestic in late 2009. Poor reviews (39% on RT) and bad word of mouth combined with lack of brand recognition suggests the lower figure is more likely than the higher one.

But I digress. If we assume that its foreign gross will match its domestic like Oz and most other Disney movies (it has done poorly in the markets it has hit so far) it will end up around $200 million. If it's as leggy as Oz and foreign audiences absolutely love it and its domestic take is only 1/3 of its total (pretty well into optimistic territory) then it will hit $300 million. Either way the film is doomed. There's very little chance that she didn't lose tens of millions of dollars for the people that hired her.

tl;dr: it's Tomorrowland 2.0.

edited 22nd Mar '18 3:34:23 PM by NogaiKhan

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#22: Mar 22nd 2018 at 5:02:49 PM

Wrinkle in Time and New Gods share a lot of common elements: bizarre alien worlds, godlike beings, fantasy style story filtered through a science fiction lens, cosmic battle between light and darkness, conception of ultimate evil as the absence of free will.

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#23: Mar 23rd 2018 at 3:20:42 PM

Part of capturing the New Gods is going to be in getting the tone right. If you try to do it as just a straight-ahead super hero film, or just a straight-ahead science fiction or fantasy film, you're going to fail. It's Kirby, which ought to be a sub-genre all its own. There's a specific tone of heightened reality that needs to be captured, or else it's all going to look silly.

Take Granny Goodness. I mean, her name is freakin' Granny Goodness. But she's terrifying, and her orphanages where she conditions future troops for Darkseid are also deeply terrifying ("The punishment block is the Throne of Truth!"). Scott Free ends up looking profoundly awesome just for maintaining his identity after going through Granny's conditioning.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#24: Mar 23rd 2018 at 4:28:38 PM

No maintaining, building. He wasn't given to her as a grown child, but as a baby. He was raised by her from the start. Mister Miracle lives up to his name.

You know, at first I was skeptical of New Genesis and Highfather. I thought they were another Olympus and Zeus, or another Asgard and Odin. But the first thing he does when Orion comes home, is to bow to the children.

The supreme Lord of a world of Gods, with all the trappings of the patriarch Grandpa God, bowing. To children.

I teared up.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
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