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Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#176: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:37:30 PM

[up][up][up] Hagrid is fabulous and he doesn't care what people think.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#177: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:39:01 PM

Heck, Dumbledore's commentary on The Tales of Beedle the Bard concerning the Elder Wand has him pointing out that most of the Wand's wielders have been men and leaving it up to the reader's discretion as to what that meant. So the phallic implications are canon.

And now I'm wondering if there were ever any especially insecure wizards who demanded longer and harder wands even if they weren't suitable for them.

This probably added to Draco's humiliation when Harry overpowered him and took his wand, becoming its new master.

Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2018 at 1:42:51 AM

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#178: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:43:32 PM

I mean, the entire dueling thing and the whole "Wand loyalty" stuff takes a second meaning if you read disarming your opponent as emasculating them. Both in a "Robbing them of their power" and in a more... symbolic way.

And then their, ahem, "stick" is yours.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#179: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:45:59 PM

Which makes the scene of Snape effortlessly defeating Lockhart by disarming him immediately that much more satisfying.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#180: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:48:56 PM

You can even see it about women. The whole idea of a witch, when you get down to it, historically, is about empowered women. Thats where the societal fear came from: Women who have power other than that which patriarchal society gives them. It's why much of the witch's imagery involves the subversive use of household items (Cauldrons for potions. Riding a broomstick which is its own phallic imagery, household pets as familiars).

The Witches of the Potterverse are empowered. They too wield the phallic symbol.


Also on broken wands, lets not forget Ron being rendered impotent for the entire second book because he broke his wand.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 27th 2018 at 1:52:32 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#181: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:50:06 PM

Taking it further, one can consider mastery of wandless magic to show that the wizard or witch has transcended the need for the symbol.

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clockworkboy Since: Jun, 2013
#182: Sep 27th 2018 at 11:20:22 PM

A few years ago it was revealed on Pottermore that there is a wizarding school in Africa that primarily teaches wandless magic called Uagadou. The location of this school is in the Rwenzori Mountains, otherwise known as "Mountains of the Moon". It apparently the oldest wizarding school and only recently started incorporating wand usage into it's curriculum, but for over a thousand years has taught students to preform magic through finger movements and hand gestures.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#183: Sep 28th 2018 at 5:12:33 AM

On one hand, cool detail, but on the other, in the books we're explicitly told wand magic is more powerful, more controlled, and better and more modern. It's why wand useage among non-humans is so regulated and why Goblins really want wands.

So basically Rowling is telling us the African wizards until recently were backwards and primitive and only recently caught up with their European peers. Which is kind of a stereotype Africa has to deal with all the time.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 28th 2018 at 8:20:27 AM

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#184: Sep 28th 2018 at 5:51:09 AM

On the other hand, wandless magic is difficult to near impossible to pull off for some wizards/witches outside instances of accidental magic. Part of the reason Expelliarmus is Boring Yet Practical stems from the fact vast majority of wand-bearers are useless without them. While I don't remember if it was stated for goblins, house elves are depicted as more powerful magically.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
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#185: Sep 28th 2018 at 6:21:35 AM

On the other hand, wandless magic is difficult to near impossible to pull off for some wizards/witches outside instances of accidental magic. Part of the reason Expelliarmus is Boring Yet Practical stems from the fact vast majority of wand-bearers are useless without them. While I don't remember if it was stated for goblins, house elves are depicted as more powerful magically.

So? A lot of more primitive things are harder to do. That's why we invented things to do them in the first place. Hand forging is harder than using a programmable plasma cutter. Making bread by hand is harder than making bread with machines. Archery is harder than using guns.

None of that removes that this is the "Africans are backwards" stereotype because we're specifically told how Wands make magic better. And heck the whole "They are simple and therefore better" is itself its own bag of unfortunate implication that leads, among other things, to the Magical Negro who is wise because he's down to Earth and a Noble Savage.

house elves are depicted as more powerful magically

They aren't. House elves are depicted as "different" which is why things that specifically are meant to counter-act Wizard magic doesn't affect them. The one instance this comes up - Kreacher being able to apparate/dissaparate from Voldemort's cave, it's specifically framed that as House Elf magic being different, and Voldemort not bothering to consider putting provision against them because he sees them below his notice. The book is pretty clear Voldemort could've stopped it, had he bothered.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 28th 2018 at 9:23:54 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#186: Sep 28th 2018 at 6:55:37 AM

Wand magic is better? when?, if anything is just a crunch for many and if anything it feel tit would be like "you need to be like europeans and do their stuff to be consider advance" which is another steriotype.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#187: Sep 28th 2018 at 7:38:31 AM

Are the Amish backwards and primitive specifically for choosing to forgo modern conveniences? :hmm

Edited by Eagal on Sep 28th 2018 at 7:42:10 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#188: Sep 28th 2018 at 7:43:37 AM

It's not an uncommon criticism that the Amish's refusal to accept modern technology means they're viewed as being backwards in comparison to everyone else

edit: modern conveniences include things like healthcare,which is something they should use

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 28th 2018 at 7:45:02 AM

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Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#189: Sep 28th 2018 at 7:44:49 AM

Key words: "Viewed as". I didn't ask if they were viewed as backwards by people on the outside looking in. I asked if they are backwards.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#190: Sep 28th 2018 at 7:47:42 AM

Well they're certainly not sideways,or upside down

I think it is a fair comment that their strict refuel to accept the benefits of a modern world does make them backwards

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#191: Sep 28th 2018 at 7:50:30 AM

Their "backwardsness" is a willful conscious decision on their part. In theory it's supposed to be an informed one, since younger Amish are supposed to be exposed to the outside world to see if they want to be a part of it. In practice there's a lot of conditioning and pressure from the community and their own family.

I was born in Pennsylvania, so I had some minor exposure to Amish culture on field trips as a kid.

Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2018 at 10:52:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#192: Sep 28th 2018 at 7:51:55 AM

it come with backdraws but to be consider backwards is another.

I dont think rowling try to make a comparation between diferent magicians or system, just to said some have diferent mode to do magic, in fact I feel weird saying wand magic is better when every point out doing wandless magic is sign of a expert.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#193: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:50:00 AM

Are the Amish backwards and primitive specifically for choosing to forgo modern conveniences? :hmm

There’s a discussion to be had about how white Luddism is perceived differently from peoples of color deliberately forgoing technology. Nobody proposed invading the Amish to “civilize these primitives”.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#194: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:55:18 AM

Although hearing about horror stories of children dying in cults that rely entirely on prayer for healing does make one sorely tempted...

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thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#195: Sep 28th 2018 at 8:55:28 AM

I mean I’m on board if you are.

jamespolk Since: Aug, 2012
#196: Sep 28th 2018 at 9:21:32 AM

in the books we're explicitly told wand magic is more powerful, more controlled, and better and more modern.

Where are we explicitly told this? IIRC it's implied that wandless magic is more difficult. Isn't that an advanced lesson at Hogwarts?

Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#197: Sep 28th 2018 at 9:47:30 AM

Googled 'HP wandless magic'. Blammo

In short, it's case by case. If a witch or wizard has enough skill, they can achieve the same results with or without wands. Magic with wands is not inherently superior.

Edited by Eagal on Sep 28th 2018 at 9:55:25 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#198: Sep 28th 2018 at 10:03:26 AM

Then... what's the point of the Elder Wand? Unless the threshold for "sufficiently skilled" is "beyond the two greatest wizards in HP canon" thus effectively irrelevant.

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Eagal Since: Apr, 2012
#199: Sep 28th 2018 at 10:06:48 AM

I supposed either Wrong Context Magic or Magic Feather.

Edited by Eagal on Sep 28th 2018 at 10:06:53 AM

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#200: Sep 28th 2018 at 10:11:43 AM

The Elder Wand is an extremely buffed magical artifact, and literally the ultimate crutch. That's why Voldemort was desperate to get it.

I honestly can't see how one can read HP and reach any conclussion other than wands are crutches and overreliance on them is ultimately a weakness.


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