The criteria for Unintentionally Unsympathetic says:
"When a character's supposed insecurities or embarrassing quirks are supposed to inspire sympathy, but fail to impress the audience because they're mishandled or plain written badly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around."
This is the basic criteria of the trope. There is more after but I am not sure what was present from the start and what was edited in afterwords to expand the definition. This trope is becoming more popular, with the page starting to be split-off into sub pages and such. And like all popular YMMV tropes this is causing an influx of bad examples that are probably just one-sided complaining, shoehorning, and bashing which is not in the spirit of this wiki. You can see this is causing issues just by looking at the pages discussion thread. I felt that the trope needed a dedicated cleanup thread. This way edits can be done without causing edit wars and getting people banned.
Some guidelines if a character or event is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
1. It has to be unintentional on the authors part. It is in the title. All examples that were intentional on the author's part are disqualified by definition.
2. The example should state exactly why the author or narrative intended the subject to have been sympathetic and why it failed to resonate with the audience. If the example can not clearly state these two points, it is a bad example and needs to at minimum be rewritten.
3. Neutral tone: No insults. I know it is fun to complain about stuff but complaining is not in the spirit of the wiki. So long as one side isn't promoting hate speech examples should be written without taking a side. Examples that are heavily favoring one side or insulting the other side are probably not valid examples.
4. There should be a wide accepted disagreement between the audience and the author to be a valid example. By that I mean that there should be large consensus in the audience disagreeing with the author over why the character is unsympathetic instead of sympathetic. If the audience is too divided and one section thinks agrees with the author and the other doesn't, the example could be a pet peeve of a single person, which isn’t noteworthy.
Lastly, always consider Square Peg, Round Trope and be mindful if the example may fit better under a different trope such as Base-Breaking Character, Broken Base, and The Scrappy. Please visit other cleanup threads if you have questions about tropes that do not involve Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
Feel free to help if you spot some bad examples or can point out more rules for the trope. Or argue with me over the definitions, this is a cleanup thread after all.
MOD NOTICE: As of October 26, 2022, this thread now covers Unintentionally Sympathetic as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 26th 2022 at 8:15:48 AM
TBH, I know nothing about the show in question, but seeing this discussion is bringing up one of my personal concerns with the UU/US tropes again - they're assuming that it's inherently true one side of a conflict between characters is meant to be sympathetic and the other isn't. That's not always the case.
I agree. I don't think any of the three parties of the love triangle were meant to be seen as definitively sympathetic or unsympathetic. All were meant to have their faults in the situation.
I’m gonna put some Gloom in your eye.I still think it counts if there are scenes where a character is painted in a heartwarming likable light but the audience doesn't agree. In my opinion, US/UU can refer to specific points in a character's story and not the character altogether.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Agreed. But the example in question isn't that as written.
Very much misuse as it fails to explains why/when he was supposed to be sympathetic despite his flaws and half the entry notes some did sympathize with him. Easy cut as is.
Asking again about this from YMMV.My Little Pony Equestria Girls Friendship Games:
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: Sunset is treated as being in the wrong for blowing up at Sci-Twi...but one forgets that Sci-Twi endangered everyone with her reckless study of magic. Also, Sunset was lashing out in defense of her friends.
1. Not sure if unintentional as she was meant to have sympathetic reasons to blow up like that even if it was a mistake. 2. By the time Sci-Twi realized how dangerous it was the device was operating outside her control and she only used it afterward when Crystal Prep pressed her into it. 3. Sunset was portrayed as unfairly projecting Pony-Twi who (they thought) would have known better on Sci-Twi who lacked the experience to. 4. Sunset blowing up failed to talk her out of it while her calmer Talking the Monster to Death later.
However I wonder if the depth/subtext to make it come off as intended is fans overthinking the moment. MLP cleanup
leans to keeping in some form.
Cut? Is this a better fit for Informed Wrongness as the issue is less sympathy than if it was justified?
I don't know the work, but what does "but one forgets" mean? Is it trying to say that the audience forgets? Or that the characters forgot? I ask because it's coming across as "but if you think about it this way" Fridge Logic. It just feels off, like it's complaining trying to disguise itself as something else.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 17th 2022 at 5:45:27 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.There's this example on YMMV.Star Vs The Forces Of Evil I found:
- Unintentionally Sympathetic:
- Surprisingly, Season 4 manages to turn Toffee into this. Despite all the wretched and horrible things he did as the Big Bad of the first two seasons and the beginning of Season 3, thanks to the various actions of magic users across the season, many have come to see Toffee's crusade against magic as justified. Even Star herself thinks Toffee had a point after seeing the destruction Moon and Mina's army of Solarian warriors has caused Mewni, noting that none of this would have happened had she not restored the Magic Dimension. His main fault ends up being less about his views on magic and more the lengths he was willing to go to achieve his goal, to say nothing of his vision for the future once magic was gone being one where all Mewmans are annihilated. Although even then, one can have sympathy for him given that Glossaryck clearly had the chance to steer him right but didn't actually try just Because Destiny Says So.
This entry just seems to keep contradicting itself whenever he was meant to be sympathetic or not. Plus the whole The Magic Goes Away thing at the end of the show is heavily contested because of the consequences it brought.
I don't think he counts. Maybe I could fudge some of talking points in this entry in the already-existing Draco in Leather Pants entry for him.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 23rd 2022 at 3:32:35 PM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!Here's a new entry I found on the YMMV page of Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Fred in early season two. His character development over the first season in regards to his relationship with Daphne is brought back worse than when he started. He becomes violently possessive and jealous of her, going as far as abducting her from her bedroom in the middle of the night to take her a picnic at the beach.
But this doesn’t actually explain how this was unintentional.
HoMM Fan
I'm pretty sure I recall Fred's actions as being treated as extreme and not exactly healthy, but it has been a long time since I watched the show.
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: The creators evidently thought that making Beast Boy the Butt-Monkey was the same as making him The Chew Toy but shot themselves in the foot by also making him The Woobie whenever he had Character Focus, which gave him a series-long case of Angst? What Angst? and his fans loads and loads of angsty Fanfic Fuel.
I'm confused. If the writers made him The Woobie, then that means sympathy was intended.
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!- Alec Lightwood from The Mortal Instruments qualifies several times for this. When Clary realizes that he is gay and, in addition, falls in love with his parabatai, he hits her with full force against a massive wall. Alec is a trained and superhuman shadowhunter, and he believes Clary is a mundane at the time. A real mundane he would probably have hurt in this way, significantly. I'm pretty sure this was presented as a bad thing Alec did
- In the course of the plot, he falls in love with Magnus Bane. After spending some time together, Alec realizes that as a warlock, Magnus will live considerably longer than he does. When Camille offers to take his immortality from Magnus, Alec immediately agrees. Understandably, Magnus is very angry about this, but can thwart this plan. When Alec and Magnus come to an argument and a split, Alec blames the vampire Camille for this, and plans to killing her. While Alec was partly at fault, Camille was actively manipulating him to ruin Alec and Magnus relationship. This entry acts like she did nothing wrong
- Alec is constantly lamenting that everyone is discriminating against him for his homosexuality. He simply overlooks the fact that there are already people who accept him as he is, including his sister and his parabatai. And even though he is treated unfairly more than once for this reason, morally, he is no better because he openly shows his racism against vampires. Of course, apart from Simon. Shadowhunter society is presented as very homphobic. I think "2 people accept him, so he is not allowed to complain about homophobia anymore" is a weird point
- He even openly admits to Simon that he has racial reservations about vampires and does not like him getting intimate with Alec's sister Isabelle. His prejudice against vampires is presented as a bad thing he eventually realizes is wrong and grows out of.
- Alec kills the half-fairy Meliorn from a short distance with an arrow. And although Meliorn is anything but innocent, in this case he was still a person who was completely unarmed and already defeated on the ground. This is nothing but a cold-blooded murder. Meliorn betrayed the Shadowhunters to help the Big Bad enslave/kill everyone including children
- Alec is still doing enough heroic things not to be a designated hero, but compared to the other protagonists, he's quite a bastard.
I just don't think this is common opinion in the fandom. Alec is actually one of the most popular characters. I hear a lot more people complaining about Clary or Jace than about Alec.
- The elves of Xadia as a whole. While the conflict is painted as Grey-and-Gray Morality, it really seems that the elves were the worst ones of the duo. Once Dark Magic was invented, they performed a full ethnic cleansing of their country and kicked the humans out of the lands where they lived into another kingdom entirely. And Seasons 2 and 3 highlight how the human/elf conflict is largely driven by humans' lack of resources compared to what the elves have, and the magical races not seeing human poverty or starvation as their problem.
I'm pretty sure we're NOT supposed to sympathise with the Elves for banishing innocent humans for something one guy did. We're just not meant to see it as "evil", hence the Grey-and-Grey Morality.
This is especially confusing since the humans are placed under Unintentionally Sympathetic in regard to their conflict with the elves. So we are supposed to side with the fascist, paranoid elves and not the banished humans? Did I miss something?
I think Ron the Death Eater would be a better trope for this.
Edited by LapisLazuliisthebest on Jan 28th 2022 at 5:54:21 PM
HoMM Fan
The entire Human/Elf situation in Dragon Prince is a bit of a mess.
It definitely doesn't belong in Unintentionally Unsympathetic for the elves, as the show doesn't expect you to feel sympathy for their past actions.
Unintentionally Sympathetic may fit for the human dark mages specifically, but that's a specific group of characters, and the show does portray them as fairly sympathetic.
Ron the Death Eater is probably okay, because the fanbase (at least the larger communities I associate with) tend to lean towards "dark magic is a justified response to being oppressed by the elves/dragons, who may well be colonizers although the lore is vague on that". Or more simply, a large enough segment of the fanbase thinks humans>Elves.
This should be watched carefully as later seasons come out though, because the conflict is intentionally foggy and slathered in mystery and possibly misinformation, so it's quite possible some critical details have (intentionally) been left out, which colors our perspective of events.
Edited by Tonwen on Jan 28th 2022 at 1:19:51 PM
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"- Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:
- A surprising number of viewers apparently felt sorry for Skye's ex-boyfriend, despite the fact that his selfish actions resulted in multiple deaths... because Coulson left him to fend for himself in Hong Kong while fitted with a bracelet that would prevent him from hacking at the end of the episode.
- Grant Ward, despite being a killer and a traitor was shown to have deep emotional turmoil caused by having been abused as a child and then turned into a killer by a sadistic HYDRA agent when he was only 17. He seemed to grasp and understand the wrong in the things he did when he's imprisoned. Many fans got behind him and wanted him redeemed while the writers didn't share that same viewpoint. Any attempts they made to make him irredeemable either towed the line for many or came off as forced and only sought to alienate his fanbase and call the writers out on Villain Decay.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Jan 28th 2022 at 3:51:34 AM
@Unoriginal: Isn't Alec supposed to be a flawed Anti-Hero who gets more decent over time. I haven't read it just from what I've heard.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yeah, he starts off as kind off cold and very prejudiced against Downworlders (especially vampires) due to how his parents raised him and the terrible values of the Shadowhunter society. Then over the course of this series and its sequels, he warms up to people, makes a lot of new friends, learns his prejudice against Downworlders was wrong and starts the Downworlder-Shadowhunter alliance, dedicated to peacefully solving problems between the two.
His relationship with Magnus is also a bit messy in the beginning, since he's a teenager, it's his first relationship, he's still hiding the fact that he's gay from his parents and their relationship is pretty unequal. They eventually work things out however and have a genuinely healthy relationship.
I found this example on a BoJack Horseman
episode.
I really don't like the victim blaming tone there. It's rare I've seen people not sympathize with Hollyhock in that scene, and while people do think she's too trusting towards Beatrice, it's made clear why she has that perspective. If Hollyhock is considered UU to the fandom for any reason, it's the letter she wrote to Bojack in season 6, not this.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.From YMMV.Spider Man 2:
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: Peter's Pizza delivery boss, who fires him for consistant tardiness and missed delivieries, may seem like a jerk considering the circumstances, but he is actually completely justified in doing so.
He's not really depicted as unsympathetic and to quote a trope on his entry on the characters page "his reasons for firing Peter are entirely justifiable, and he does manage to show a bit of sympathy towards the latter, admitting that Peter's "a nice guy, but just not dependable"."
This entry for The Lost World: Jurassic Park is extremely biased and misstates many things about the plot:
- The "heroes" (with the exception of Dr. Ian Malcolm, who is only on Isla Sorna to stop their expedition, although this is in part because one member is his lover) become a lot less heroic when you realize that they release the dinosaurs from their perfectly secure containers and cause them to go on the rampage that causes all the deaths on the island. Their actions also cause the corrupt corporation that owned the dinosaurs to bring a T. Rex to San Diego which causes even more death and destruction. So the heroes cause every death in the film with the highest body count in the series and never get punished for this. The motives for all this are that the dinosaurs should be allowed to live in their natural environments which a) do not exist any more and b) is in direct opposition to the moral of the first film and the books both films are based on. Dr. Sarah Harding being made into a Composite Character with Dr. Richard Levine makes her a standout example as the latter described as having "a world-wide reputation for being a pain in the ass" and lacking any idea of consequences or any training in fieldwork as he preferred to study museum samples. His poor traits make the movie version of Sarah much harder to sympathize with.
First, the heroes didn't cause every death in the film, or even most of them (most of the island deaths were from the Velociraptors, who were never imprisoned). The InGen team taking the T-Rex to San Diego was entirely their own decision, and one the heroes tried to stop. The reason for releasing the other dinosaurs from their containers was because the InGen team was going to take those dinosaurs to the mainland, which the aforementioned criticism seems to consider a bad thing. The rest of the entry is flat-out wrong, as the heroes want the dinosaurs to remain on Isla Sorna, and it makes no sense to say that this goes against the first film's message, which was that using dinosaurs in a theme park (which is the goal of the InGen characters) is a bad idea.
Edited by Javertshark13 on Feb 6th 2022 at 2:34:25 PM

That sounds like a Base-Breaking Character entry in disguise, though I don't know if he fits there either. The entry doesn't really make a good argument for him being UU but I didn't finish Pahkitew so IDK.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.