Unintentionally Unsympathetic and Unintentionally Sympathetic Cleanup

I was thinking about Professor Callaghan from Big Hero 6. Is the audience supposed to feel bad for him because of what happened to his daughter? Is he more or less sympathetic than the writers wanted him to be?

I dont think the ly wanted him to be seen as that sympathetic.

He's supposed to be wrong for that despite intend sympathy for such. UU requires they be unsympathetic for different reasons than intended.

YMMV.Kitchen Nightmares:

• Unintentionally Unsympathetic:
  • While David — the head chef in the Burger Kitchen, is shown to be beaten down and he does show potential when Gordon asks him to cook a burger and it turns out well, his disrespectful and uncaring attitude towards Daniel and his girlfriend makes it difficult to feel any real sympathy for him when Daniel finally has enough and fires him for talking back one too many times.
    • Conversely, though he's been through even more than David under Alan, Daniel can also come off as rude and antagonistic to David, and his shrewd voice along with his condescending, pouty attitude when agitated in the kitchen can be quite grating.
  • The owners of Greek at the Harbor. While Aris's comment was hurtful, many have pointed out that the matter could have been solved quickly had they actually talked to him about it rather than bottle it up and hold it against him, shifting most of - if not all of - the blame onto Aris, who had by now had a change of heart about the restaurant.
  • Janelle, the owner's daughter from Mangia Mangia, with regards to the incidents involving her and Trevor — the depressed head chef who is later revealed to have a hidden crystal meth addiction. Although Trevor was acting like a Jerkass for most of the episode, most of the time she's seen literally screaming at him over the slightest provocations and using a variety of incredibly personal insults. Though she breaks down over the fact Trevor tried to punch her and has gotten physical against her whilst he was high, the fact that Trevor says this was after she told him that nobody loved him or cared about his existence, and that he'd be better off dead doesn't help. It's harder to root for her in hindsight once it's revealed just how bad his depression and drug problem really is, especially after reacting with evident glee when he was fired for it.
  • While the family that owns Sushi Ko are in a very tough spot in both their relationships and the restaurant, and their episode is considered one of the most tragic ones, Lisa can be a little hard to root for, given that she tends to speak for her husband and talk over him while simultaneously ranting about and berating him in front of Ramsay to the point where even he asked her to stop.

This is reality TV, so is seem misuse to say real people are this. Even if it's the portrayals that can count, fails to explain how they are meant to be sympathetic as the work doesn't assign an attempted sympathy value. Will cut unless I hear anything.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 1st 2021 at 7:55:42 AM

I question these from DC Infinite Frontier.

• Unintentionally Sympathetic: A number of readers have commented about the Spectre's disdainful feelings towards the idea of Jon Kent becoming Superman by agreeing with him. While the Spectre's meant to be seen as a dick about the subject, the fandom has largely hated the fact that Jon was so quickly aged from 12 to 17 due to how overall bland he became. So many agree with the Spectre that Jon shouldn't be Superman because he should've never been forced to age so fast.

There is dissonance of why people would agree with Spectre. In the comic, the reason why he believes Jon wouldn't be a good Superman is because he may turn into an evil Superman. The example reason why Jon wouldn't be a good Superman is because he got aged up and is boring. It could make sense if they used Jon's action from Future State event in which he did bottled Metropolis. But they dont.

Edited by WhirlRX on Mar 4th 2021 at 5:47:00 AM

We should probably rename this thread to "Unintentionally Unsympathetic/Sympathetic Cleanup" since both are brought here. Anyway:

• Friday Night Funkin': Corruption:
  • Unintentionally Sympathetic: The Senpai, the Bitch in Sheep's Clothing from Week 6, has gained some sympathy in this AU due to his impending doom to the hands of the Boyfriend.

Got a few problems with this example. First, it conflates the events of canon with the events of the AU; second, Senpai looks visibly confused and unnerved during his first song with BF, so I believe he is supposed to be taken sympathetically, at least in comparison to Canon!Senpai; third and perhaps the most damning, Senpai's entire Week hasn't been showcased yet - it's just the first song, so we don't have the fully story. Can I cut it?

What is going on in the mess that is Law & Order: Special Victims Unit entries. Theirs so much bitching in A lot of them.

Yes, you and several others have pointed that out but only mods can edit titles. Unintentionally Unsympathetic/Sympathetic Cleanup is fine. But I would like approval from other people first. Everyone. Please if you want the title changed. If you do not.

It is fine by me if you want to holler a mod to change the title. The main issue is that while Unintentionally Sympathetic has some misuse, I won't lie, it is basically a saint compared to its sibling trope. Unintentionally Unsympathetic/Sympathetic works because it is admitting the UU is the more problematic trope of the two.

I would also have to update the opening post to insert criteria for writing Unintentionally Sympathetic examples and I don't know what those are. Any Help?

Yep, a lot of those fail the Neutral Po V requirement.

Edited by DocJamore on Mar 9th 2021 at 11:39:26 AM

Isn't it basically the same criteria (must be unintentional, written in a neutral fashion, and be a widely accepted opinion)?

Cut. His Bitch in Sheep's Clothing behavior in the original game is stated to be the result of him fumbling over a literal, physical inability to respond to losing rather than him being truly malicious. On top of that, he is indeed genuinely worried throughout Corruption's version of the song (as seen in the subtle edits to his "Roses" sprites), so the sympathy factor is almost certainly intentional.

Got it.

YMMV.Grand Theft Auto V

• Unintentionally Sympathetic: Trevor abandoning Michael and allowing him to get captured by Wei Cheng is treated as Trevor's Moral Event Horizon. Though when you break down what just happened, it's hard to disagree with Trevor. For the record, not only had Trevor just learned that Brad was dead and buried in Michael's grave, but also that Michael had arranged the ambush in the hopes of killing Trevor. Considering how Trevor normally reacts to something like this, it really feels more like he’s underreacting rather than crossing the line.

This feels more like an Alternative Character Interpretation more than anything. Either that or an disguised Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry for Michael. When you think about it, both of them do have their reasons for doing what they did, even if they were both wrong.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 11th 2021 at 6:53:13 AM

Oh, Big Hero 6 has been brought up already :) But do we have a conclusion?

• Unintentionally Sympathetic: Hiro trying to kill Yokai/Callaghan in Revenge for Tadashi's death is treated as a near-Moral Event Horizon In-Universe. However, some fans actually support Hiro on this, given (1) Yokai/Callaghan coldly dismissing Tadashi's death as the boy's own fault for trying to save him, right in front of the grieving Hiro and (2) Hiro — unlike Yokai/Callaghan — attacked only a deserving target instead of innocent bystanders as well.
• Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Yokai/Professor Callaghan can come across as this to some viewers because even though he was wracked with grief over his daughter's death, he still attacked students in ways that could have caused their deaths, stole government property, gave a No Sympathy response to Tadashi's sacrifice and destroyed KreiTech headquarters with the intention of destroying Krei himself with absolutely zero concern for the Innocent Bystanders that would be around.

My impression is that the villain is meant to be somewhat sympathetic for his loss but definitely not for wreaking havoc and trying to kill the heroes. Then, he's listed as a Base-Breaking Character, and I've seen all sorts of opinions about him, from crying for his blood to whitewashing him. Ditto for Hiro trying to kill him.

So, I'd rather cut the entries.

Its amazing how people think its ok to want a 12 year old to kill someone in cold blood which would damage the boy beyond belief.

From The Simpsons S 29 E 17 Lisa Gets The Blues:

• Unintentionally Unsympathetic: This episode has "Bleeding Gums" Murphy saving Lisa once again (in a way)... but then it turns out that the guy was a passive-aggressive example of Abusive Parents and thus loved to rain praise upon her... as a way to insult his nephew's own musical aspirations. It is seriously up to the viewer whether or not the very casual way said nephew drops the bomb in the middle of praising Lisa is ultimately unsettling. The guy's not only dead but his biggest sin for many years seemed to be that he lost all of his money getting Drunk on Milk (or Faberge Eggs)... seriously, what the hell?

OK, so I've been watching the show Life with Derek on YouTube and I'm not sure whether Casey or Derek is supposed to be the sympathetic one? I'd assume it's supposed to be Casey, but I only finished the first season.

In one episode, Derek and Casey fight over the TV remote and Derek accidentally knocks Casey off the couch, causing her to sprain her ankle. Casey blackmails Derek into giving her whatever she wants in exchange for not telling on him. Derek eventually draws a line when Casey asks to give him concert tickets, so she gets Lizzie to steal the tickets himself. Eventually Derek breaks his knee and the tables are turned. By the end of the episode though, we learn Derek faked the injury so he could get back at Casey, and Casey also pretended her ankle was still sprained long after it had healed so she could blackmail Derek as long as she wanted.

Is this supposed to be a "both sides are bad" story? How about the show overall?

I think that episode was made in response to the Bill Cosby allegations, so if anyone is UU, it's Lisa.

We're probably not meant to sympathize with Murphy.

That episode in particular sounds like "both sides are bad". I think in general Casey's supposed to be in the right, but admittedly it's been a while since I've watched Life With Derek.

I don't remember any episodes where Derek wasn't in the wrong, but it's been years, so who knows?

Does this entry seem odd to any one else? From Zack Snyder's Justice League:

• Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Barry's initial rescue of Iris includes him tenderly caressing her face, which feels like it leans far too heavily on our knowledge of them as an Official Couple and just comes off as creepy when they don't know each other yet, and even raises the question of how much more Power Perversion Potential he's taken advantage of. And it really doesn't help that between the film being shot and its release, Ezra Miller had physically assaulted a female fan.

First of all I have been watching fan discussion and no one has mentioned this like that. But is that part about his actor necessary?

Edited by Bullman on Mar 20th 2021 at 12:30:53 PM

Even besides that, it sounds very reliant on a weird mix of Fridge Horror and Continuity Lockout. If they're already an Official Couple then it's not creepy really? Though it could be if they're not, but the entry's worded weird.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 20th 2021 at 1:36:00 PM

I mean they are not an Official Couple yet. So I could see it, if I saw that from looking around, but I haven't. I mean he doesn't even do it that long, and it still seems to read to much into it in my opinion. I could rewrite it. But my main concern was the part mentioning the real actor.

Even then, I don't think it'd count as UU. It sounds like a different trope.

Harsher in Hindsight maybe? If you can call this hindsight.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 20th 2021 at 12:44:32 PM

I definitely don't think it's Hindsight. I don't know if such a small bit is worth mentioning. Though if it's remarked upon enough, perhaps Memetic Molester?

I haven't seen it mentioned much by fans from my research. So I don't know if Memetic Molester works.