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Unintentionally Unsympathetic and Unintentionally Sympathetic Cleanup

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The criteria for Unintentionally Unsympathetic says:

"When a character's supposed insecurities or embarrassing quirks are supposed to inspire sympathy, but fail to impress the audience because they're mishandled or plain written badly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around."

This is the basic criteria of the trope. There is more after but I am not sure what was present from the start and what was edited in afterwords to expand the definition. This trope is becoming more popular, with the page starting to be split-off into sub pages and such. And like all popular YMMV tropes this is causing an influx of bad examples that are probably just one-sided complaining, shoehorning, and bashing which is not in the spirit of this wiki. You can see this is causing issues just by looking at the pages discussion thread. I felt that the trope needed a dedicated cleanup thread. This way edits can be done without causing edit wars and getting people banned.

Some guidelines if a character or event is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

1. It has to be unintentional on the authors part. It is in the title. All examples that were intentional on the author's part are disqualified by definition.

2. The example should state exactly why the author or narrative intended the subject to have been sympathetic and why it failed to resonate with the audience. If the example can not clearly state these two points, it is a bad example and needs to at minimum be rewritten.

3. Neutral tone: No insults. I know it is fun to complain about stuff but complaining is not in the spirit of the wiki. So long as one side isn't promoting hate speech examples should be written without taking a side. Examples that are heavily favoring one side or insulting the other side are probably not valid examples.

4. There should be a wide accepted disagreement between the audience and the author to be a valid example. By that I mean that there should be large consensus in the audience disagreeing with the author over why the character is unsympathetic instead of sympathetic. If the audience is too divided and one section thinks agrees with the author and the other doesn't, the example could be a pet peeve of a single person, which isn’t noteworthy.

Lastly, always consider Square Peg, Round Trope and be mindful if the example may fit better under a different trope such as Base-Breaking Character, Broken Base, and The Scrappy. Please visit other cleanup threads if you have questions about tropes that do not involve Unintentionally Unsympathetic.

Feel free to help if you spot some bad examples or can point out more rules for the trope. Or argue with me over the definitions, this is a cleanup thread after all.

MOD NOTICE: As of October 26, 2022, this thread now covers Unintentionally Sympathetic as well.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 26th 2022 at 8:15:48 AM

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#2651: Nov 10th 2024 at 3:35:06 PM

Yeah, literally all of that was intentional.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2652: Nov 10th 2024 at 3:41:39 PM

I thought so. So, should I cut it instead?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#2655: Nov 15th 2024 at 2:08:21 AM

This under Unintentionally Unsympathetic for Dragon Age: Absolution:

  • Hira's Dark and Troubled Past gives her good reason to hate Tevinter, but any sympathy fans have vanish the second they learn she wants to start a war that will destroy the Imperium regardless of any innocents living in it. That's not even going into her willingness to hand Miriam over to Rezarem with some half-baked plot to "steal her back", nevermind the emotional manipulation she used to get Miriam on board with the heist in the first place just to get at the Circulum.
She's meant to, by the end, be an antagonist, just one with a sympathetic backstory. The whole point is that she has good reason to hate Tevinter, but goes too far as a result, so this seems more like Intended Audience Reaction and therefore not this trope.

LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime RAM Day 4: Dr. Loboto & Sheegor (Season 2) Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#2658: Nov 18th 2024 at 11:02:08 AM

On YMMV.Eliot Kid:

  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Eliot is a lot of the times Mr. Delusional instead of Mr. Imagination due to the absurd conclusions he reaches with the flimsiest amount of evidence. The excuse of him being a kid doesn't really hold up since he's practically the only child other than his two gullible friends to reach such conclusions. But while even that could be overlooked, him constantly causing trouble because of his delusions and making others miserable whilst not ever stopping to reflect on his actions doesn't usually make him sympathetic. Overall, he's far more likable when he simply uses his imagination to enhance whatever mundane activity he's doing without ruining someone's day, such as imagining a go-kart race as a Formula 1 tournament.

The entry reads like it hates the character(s) instead of properly outlining why they're Unintentionally Unsympathetic. The second sentence honestly doesn't make sense to me as an argument, being "the only child to reach such conclusions" only tells me the kid is just different from others, and calling it an "excuse" and "delusions" doesn't sound very fair. Also I went to check the character's age, and according to official material, Eliot is six — he's literally a small child and his only "crime" is a hyperactive imagination that often happens to lead to trouble, making this potentially doubly unfair considering the setting is fairly realistic (from what I remember) which would mean he is too young to be intentionally causing problems.

SharkToast Since: Mar, 2013
#2659: Nov 18th 2024 at 3:36:04 PM

The Middle:

  • Alternative Character Interpretation:
    • Despite his many quirks, Brick just comes off as an apathetic Jerkass sometimes.
    • Sue’s perpetual quirkiness ranges from sympathetic, to funny to plain annoying - sometimes within a single episode.

These both seem like misplaced Unintentionally Unsympathetic examples, but they're both lacking context.

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#2660: Nov 18th 2024 at 3:37:22 PM

[up] If anyone's a fan of the show, they can happily add context. For now, comment them out.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2661: Nov 19th 2024 at 3:46:51 PM

I found this YMMV.Silent Hill The Short Message

  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Anita came off as this for a not too insignificant portion of players when it came to light that she was the one responsible for Maya's suicide, specifically because it was under the completely imagined belief that Maya was stealing Amelie. Even if Anita has been throwing herself into her own personal Hell since then out of guilt, it doesn't exactly change the fact that Anita pretty much got away scot-free with driving an innocent girl to suicide in the real world. It's also left ambiguous if Anita learned to let go of her possessive feelings towards Amelie by the end, as her guilt came more from finding out that Maya never was trying to steal Amelie away from her rather than the fact that her bullying drove her to commit suicide, period. Not that there aren't some players who believe the point was Anita realizing her behavior was no better than what she went through herself, but was being told to live with her mistakes rather than throw away any remaining chances to atone for them.

This is all intentional. She is not meant to be sympathetic for any of this.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#2662: Nov 19th 2024 at 4:19:35 PM

I'd like to make a suggestion for this thread. Its for YMMV.The Lego Movie 2 The Second Part.


  • Finn and Bianca's mother may be this to some, as rather then either just getting Bianca to leave Finn alone when Finn evidently doesn't like to or just getting Finn to to listen to her, she demands they play together while refusing to listen to anything they say even as they just keep fighting, and when things inevitably blow up between them, she is never once called out on her rather poor decision.

Edited by generation81 on Nov 19th 2024 at 7:30:56 AM

king15 Have Faun Since: Mar, 2024
Have Faun
#2663: Nov 20th 2024 at 2:00:30 AM

This from the YMMV page for Saturday Night:

  • Unintentionally Sympathetic: A recurring criticism of the film was the portrayal of Jim Henson. Henson is depicted as a pretentious stick-in-the-mud who deserves to be taken down a peg by the rest of the cast and crew. Given both his legendary reputation among fans of The Muppets and his other works even after his death, as well as the fact that in real life, Henson was nothing but respectful towards the crew despite their acrimonious relationship even after leaving the show, many cried foul and criticized the film for dismissing his contributions on the grounds he only made puppet shows and thus his work was "lesser" than the SNL staff.
I think that criticism should be mentioned somewhere (maybe They Changed It, Now It Sucks!), but I don't think its Unintentionally Sympathetic since it doesn't describe why the fictionalised Henson is considered more sympathetic than intended.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#2664: Nov 20th 2024 at 2:16:57 AM

Both UU examples at YMMV.Kaiju Number 8 are really long and read like character analysis.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#2666: Nov 20th 2024 at 6:10:05 AM

Okay then.

EDIT: Just added it.

Edited by generation81 on Nov 20th 2024 at 9:12:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2667: Nov 20th 2024 at 6:13:30 AM

If I have one suggestion I would remove the "may be this" part. That is word cuff.

Edited by Bullman on Nov 20th 2024 at 8:13:55 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#2668: Nov 20th 2024 at 6:14:03 AM

Okay then, though mind you, aren't all YMMV tropes subjective?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#2669: Nov 20th 2024 at 6:16:49 AM

Yeah, but even then, we need more then "may".

Edited by Bullman on Nov 20th 2024 at 8:19:34 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#2670: Nov 20th 2024 at 6:19:12 AM

"may" is not subjective, it's speculative. Audience Reactions is for common public opinions, and they should remain factual. So more technically it would be "is this to some" (then I'd rephrase "this" because trope names are not sentence subjects).

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 20th 2024 at 5:22:50 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Eggy0 Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her) (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Wizards Don't Own Cats (she/her)
#2671: Nov 21st 2024 at 4:09:39 AM

I would like to bump this. What's the stance of others on this?

SharkToast Since: Mar, 2013
#2672: Nov 25th 2024 at 7:46:15 PM

The Dropout:

  • Unintentionally Sympathetic: At the beginning of the series, Elizabeth Holmes as portrayed in the series may come across as more sympathetic than her actions would justify; she has a Freudian Excuse of distant parents who took a financial blow, suffered a sexual assault in college, was ostracized by classmates, had trouble being taken seriously as a young student, and was treated with sexism compared to her male peers. Scaachi Koul from BuzzFeed News seems to agree:
    "Many people watching the show already know the company didn’t really function, that the technology never worked, and that Holmes and her coconspirators are likely to face legal consequences for their malfeasance. So what's left for a dramatization to explore? Nothing beyond the humanization of someone who maybe doesn't deserve it."

The quote actually disagrees with the example, at least from my reading. What I'm getting is that the reviewer feels that Elizabeth Holmes doesn't deserve to be painted in a sympathetic light. Am I wrong?

AnotherOnlinePersona Killed by Chills from Harlequin Forest Since: Dec, 2022
Killed by Chills
#2673: Nov 29th 2024 at 2:01:59 PM

This Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry on YMMV.Drake is a wall of text that reads like real-life troping that uses the song as an excuse to bash Drake for his handling of his beef with Kendrick Lamar with no indication that the song is framing it as a story.

    entry 
  • One of the many reasons why "The Heart Part 6" was critically lambasted across the board was because of the absolutely tone-deaf statements Drake makes in order to defend himself from Kendrick Lamar's scathing allegations of him being a sexual predator. Like Drake having the gall to claim that he's "too famous" to ever be guilty of those crimes and would've been arrested a long time ago if he was...while ignoring the wave of numerous celebrities such as Bill Cosby, R. Kelly, P. Diddy, etc. who had their extensive histories of sexual misconduct resurface in the aftermath of the #MeToo movement. Drake also attempts to assert the idea that the only reason these accusations are being made is because Kendrick was molested as a child and references his track "Mother I Sober" as proof, which anybody who listened to the song knows that isn't true if you paid attention to the lyrics.Explanation So on top of his media comprehension skills being called into question, many critics of Drake have also pointed out that even if Kendrick really was assaulted, that would essentially mean that Drake's response to being accused of pedophilia and grooming...is to try and poke fun at the trauma of someone who was a victim of those exact crimes.

CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#2674: Nov 29th 2024 at 2:08:48 PM

[up]That entry is way too gossipy, even if the consensus is that the song is in poor taste. Plus, Unintentionally Unsympathetic is No Real Life Examples, Please!, so the example should be removed even without its rambling length.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Nov 29th 2024 at 4:09:05 AM

Do not mess with creatures which you do not understand.
Spyspotter Master Spy from Spying on you Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Master Spy
#2675: Nov 30th 2024 at 12:50:13 PM

Fire Emblem: Awakening

  • Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Mustafa is supposed to be seen as a sympathetic villain but his "offer" holds no real weight as it's hard to see how he could realistically protect the Shepherds from his own ruler wanting them dead (who wanted to execute the defenseless Maribelle and Emmeryn and only didn't kill Emmeryn because she killed herself first ), essentially he is just offering for them to get executed without a chance to defend themselves and he jumps straight to violence when the Shepherds refuse to allow themselves to be disarmed, in enemy territory, of a ruler who tries to execute captives, it's not hard to see him as a Dirty Coward who just wants his conscience to be clean by having the Shepherds killed by someone else or at least incredibly incompetent at avoiding violence.

This isn't the reason why the narrative presents him as sympathetic, which is instead how he's a Father to His Men, allows his men to desert him if they don't believe in the cause and is willing to face the consequences of such, and asks the Shephards to spare his men upon his death. This also ignores Mustafa's motivations, which are to protect his family since he believes that King Gangrel would retaliate if Mustafa didn't do his duty. Thus, his offer can be seen as a way to fulfil his duty while avoiding as much bloodshed as possible, and the narrative doesn't try to paint the Shephards as being stupid or unsympathetic for rejecting this offer. All in all, this entry just stinks.


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