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I'm pretty sure that anything YMMV is automatically NRLEP. If a creator gets a YMMV page, only things directly relating to their works are allowed on there.
If it's not already a NRLEP reaction, I'd send Base-Breaking Character to the real life maintenance thread.
Found another Base-Breaking Character subpage, this time it's for the SCP Foundation. What's interesting is that every article on the website can actually be voted up or down by the community, so their reception amongst the fanbase is actually quantifiable. Each article has a list of users who voted and whether they gave the article a or a .
I tallied up the info and I think we're going to have to do some pruning on the page. Here are my findings:
To sum up? 579 is the only SCP on the page I can safely say has split the fanbase in two. If you want to be generous with the exact percentage it requires to count as a Broken Base, we could also include 2212 and maybe 239. Every other character listed has received mostly positive feedback. Thoughts?
edited 20th Mar '18 11:45:43 AM by chasemaddigan
A like/dislike vote doesn't say much, unless there's an option for a middle ground answer. Without that, there's no way of determining whether one exists. Also, it doesn't say anything about whether it's actually a conflict about it in the fanbase, or just some mild difference in opinions.
Also removed it from YMMV.Garth Ennis. Not troping creators and all that, especially with tropes like this one.
edited 22nd Mar '18 12:27:21 AM by AnotherDuck
Here's one that should be evaluated.
That reads as a complaint with a token "but has fans" half a line tossed into it. It doesn't describe a proper broken base about it either, just disagreements, despite coming off as whining.
Should I just remove it?
Edit: I'm grabbing the Base-Breaking Character entrees from the same page since all these likely need to be evaluated.
edited 30th Mar '18 4:05:34 PM by keyblade333
IMO, yes, remove it. Might fit if rewritten, though.
Jiren's entry is way too long. The first sub-bullet seems reasonable. The last one seems too rambly and too wishy-washy. Seems more like several smaller points of lesser contention than one character that breaks the fanbase in two.
I've been looking at the Base-Breaking Character list from the Bleach YMMV.Bleach page, and I think a lot of them are nothing more than "fandom never has a 100% single opinion about a character" instead of it truly dividing the fandom. I'm going to list them below. Could people let me know what they think?
Note: I apologise for the length of this post, but the Bleach fandom appears to have tried to make nearly every character in the work a BBC.
Mask de Masculine
edited 2nd Apr '18 8:29:33 AM by Wyldchyld
At the very least if Aizen's entry stays it needs to be rewritten. He's a listed Complete Monster so can't be referred to as GDV as that makes him exempt from that trope. We've started to crack down on calling a Charcater a GDV when there a CM even if its entries like Base-Breaking Character.
edited 2nd Apr '18 1:16:26 PM by miraculous
I found another real life example.
That sounds like a ROCEJ violation if nothing else.
One entry I'd like to discuss from Fire Emblem:
Here's the thing: Tharja and Camilla are both very popular characters. They scored pretty high on popularity polls, and I don't really see any evidence that opinions about them are split in half in the way required to be considered a Base-Breaking Character.
Also, and I apologize if I'm seeing something that isn't there, but the "However, they also have many fans for their fanservicey qualities" also comes across as somewhat presumptuous that the main reason their fans like them is for their superficial traits.
I'm pretty sure lumping a bunch of characters together like that isn't kosher for this. We already have a similar rule for The Scrappy regarding groups not qualifying.
Are people okay with me carrying out the suggestions in my Bleach post above?
From YMMV.Sly Cooper Thieves In Time under Base-Breaking Character:
Both seem too one-sided to count, and the former violates rules against redirecting to other parts of the page (parts which don't help the one-sidedness) and a ZCE otherwise.
"To an extent" are classic Weasel Words and signify a shoehorn on their own.
I'd comment out the first example due to last of context and cut the second.
Yeah, they look like complaints to me.
The One Piece ymmv page seems suspect to me.
Most of these entries seem to fall under "This is a large fandom, people won't have the same opinions." Especially since at 900 chapters all of the main characters (including ones not listed here) have had plenty of highs and lows for people to like them, dislike them, feel indifferent, and everything in between. Thus, failing to meet the Little to no middle ground criteria.
The only one that might be valid is Sanji, but a good chunk of it is based on his handling in the current arc, which genuinely is extremely divisive (and would need to be elaborated on). But again, it's just one arc out of more than 20, and I suspect that a lot of the negativity will cool down once he's back in a more conventional role.
edited 8th Apr '18 7:25:22 PM by mrbits
I say cut unless someone can actually provide evidence that it's a pretty even split with little to no middle ground. I also have to ask: do those entries take the Japanese fanbase into consideration, considering they are the target audience for that work?
Okay, regarding the YMMV.Bleach examples, I've retained the following, and cut the rest for being shoehorning the fact that a fandom will never have a 100% identical opinion about any individual character.
The exceptions are Hinamori and Hitsugaya, whom I've cut because they're Americans Hate Tingle examples instead of Base-Breaking Character examples.
The ones I've retained are as follows:
Yasutora "Chad" Sado
So I went over Fire Emblem Awakening's Base Breaking characters. Just my two cents about them. Broken Base is pretty big too but just the character section was exhausting enough.
Avatar AKA Robin - The debate about Avatar characters in general is a common one, but Robin in particular seems like the most well liked of the three (I guess four if you really want to count Mark).
Nowi - Already covered under Americans Hate Tingle.
Tharja - Plenty of people like her and dislike her for her relationship with Robin. Her relationship with her daughter is questionable (though, a very loud Vocal Minority acts as if present Tharja treats Noire just as poorly as Bad Future Tharja did despite evidence to the contrary). I'd say keep, but I'm not going to agrue if enough people think she can be cut anyway. I see a lot more people who dislike Camilla from Fates because they took a lot of Tharja's more questionable elements and made them even more prominent.
Chrom - Feels really vague and I rarely see people complain about him.
Lucina - Long ass entry that's mostly Hype Backlash, and she's already mentioned under that.
Cordelia, Henry, and Sumia - They're popular enough that there might have been more discourse about them when Awakening was released. Didn't pay much attention to the fandom back then so I don't know.
Donnel and Olivia - Both feel more like Tier Induced Scrappy entries since absolutely nothing about the characters themselves are mentioned.
Severa - Already covered under Americans Hate Tingle.
Yarne, Sully, and Kellam - Their entries aren't questionable but none of them are popular enough to qualify.
Female Morgan - I've seen people criticize child characters as a concept but Female Morgan herself? Almost never.
Spotpass Paralouge units - Seems more like a Broken Base thing.
Priam - Literally never see him talked about outside of debates about Ike's sexuality.
Emmeryn - Also more of a Broken Base thing.
edited 9th Apr '18 11:16:46 PM by 1337x
I'm inclined to say most of those are probably a cut, mostly because quite a few of those characters on that list are very popular (as seen in the Awakening artbook and the Fire Emblem Heroes poll), and I suspect that list only talks about a minority of the Western fanbase while not regarding the Japanese one at all.
I personally haven't seen any evidence that the fanbase is nearly perfectly split in half on these characters; most of what I've seen are either praise or wonking from a vocal minority.
edited 9th Apr '18 11:29:04 PM by dragonfire5000
I'm also for cutting based on 1337x's comments.
Also, Tharja's entry definitely has to go since she places pretty high on popularity polls too consistently.
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