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dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#401: Apr 19th 2022 at 7:06:09 PM

Honestly, I feel like the whole subplot with Anthony and Kenny was meant for a spinoff, and that that subplot and Devon should've been saved for a non-tournament season while season 4 focused on the existing characters.

There was more than enough time for Sam and Tori both, but it was arguably wasted on other plots.

Certainly I feel Sam needed a lot more POV to adequately highlight her PTSD, and how she's still afraid of Tory. If they showed us a scene of Sam struggling to sign off on Tory returning to school, or a scene where Sam gets to just vent and tell her parents (or at least Daniel) that she's angry that Tory never faced serious punishment/consequences for what she did and is now returning to school without any sort of strings attached (like having to stay away from Sam or having to apologize / make restitution to Sam), or made clear her reaction to Tory turning up at prom was because "How can she turn up acting like she did nothing wrong?!", Sam would come off a lot better.

To put that another way, Sam's behaving the way she does in season 4 because Tory has basically gotten away with what she did and in some ways is being rewarded (I'm not saying that Amanda shouldn't have helped Tory's family, but Tory should at least have been forced to apologize to everyone who was affected by the fight she startednote  and mandated to stay away from Sam), while Sam is basically being told that this traumatic thing that happened to her suddenly doesn't matter anymore and it's all about Tory. Yet the audience is only ever shown Sam acting out her frustrations without any context as to why. We're just expected to read between the lines to infer Sam's position, but not everyone in the audience can do that, especially if they already didn't like Sam (for one reason or another) and/or heavily identified with Tory.

Okey Dokey!
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#402: Apr 19th 2022 at 7:23:09 PM

Is there *anything* positive to say about the last season?

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#403: Apr 19th 2022 at 7:42:13 PM

[up] Robby. Hawke. Devon. Actually seeing Johnny and Daniel duke it out. Silver.

Edited by terlwyth on May 5th 2022 at 4:44:07 AM

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#404: Apr 21st 2022 at 10:03:08 AM

I would say the main issue with the recent season was it had characters grip the conflict ball as hard a possible for non real particular reason beyond milk the original conflict past the point that it can reasonably make sense.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#406: Apr 21st 2022 at 11:42:43 AM

[up][up]

Yeah, they achieved full-on character assassination with Johnny and especially Daniel by having them act way too out of character. For the entire back half, they felt more like caricatures of themselves. (Plus, it was honestly pointless to split up midseason, considering that really the only reason Cobra Kai won at the All-Valley was because Silver bribed that ref for the girls' finals)

Not to mention Johnny has really fallen into Unintentionally Unsympathetic territory. That reunion hug between him and Robby was NOT earned in any way, whatsoever. And I say that because of the fact the show refuses to acknowledge that Johnny is still a complete failure as a father to Robby. All throughout seasons 3 and 4, he has actively failed Robby by never making time to visit, email or call him in juvie (in season 3), then leaving him to live with Kreese (in season 4). Johnny is never called out by any of the other characters for this. Daniel never asks Johnny at any point during season 4 where Robby is (nor do any of the other reasonable adults on the show, such as Amanda or Carmen). And season 4 frames things as though Johnny's biggest problems are getting jealous over the fact that Miguel is bonding with Daniel and whether Miguel will be okay with him dating Carmen; all without Johnny showing any indication that he's conflicted about the fact that he left Robby in the care of a dangerous and unstable person (Kreese).

It's not helped by the fact that the only characters who ever do call Johnny out for being a bad father (besides Robby and Shannon) are antagonist characters like Kreese and Silver, and given that they are clear-cut villains, it's clear that the writers intend for the audience to dismiss what they say for that very reason.

Edited by dmcreif on Apr 21st 2022 at 2:43:51 PM

Okey Dokey!
Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#407: Apr 21st 2022 at 11:56:17 AM

Yeah, they achieved full-on character assassination with Johnny and especially Daniel by having them act way too out of character.

That's ridiculous. Neither of them were out of character in this season. Assholes, sure, but that's already part of their characterization.

Joshbones Since: May, 2015
#408: Apr 21st 2022 at 12:10:27 PM

The only bad thing Daniel did this season was apparently him and Amanda's neglect of Anthony, but I wouldn't call that character assassination as much as an interesting view on how much Daniel likes Miyagi and how someone separated from that would respond to it.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#409: Apr 21st 2022 at 12:12:44 PM

I'm just kind of tired because most of the activity in this thread has been to necro it to complain about the past season and the discussion is going around in circles. Is there no news for the upcoming season?

Edited by Diana1969 on Apr 22nd 2022 at 5:13:01 AM

DeanCole Since: Jun, 2015
#410: Apr 21st 2022 at 6:48:58 PM

Rumor is a trailer is for the new Season be dropping hopefully we get more positivity when it drops.

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#411: May 5th 2022 at 12:50:17 PM

Is there *anything* positive to say about the last season?

Robby VS Hawk and Daniel and Johnny's Rematch. As idiotic as they are that was fun to watch.

Sadly that's about it for me. I wanted to enjoy the season, and Silver's great, but the flaws in the writing really stuck out to me.

Edited by Guy01 on May 5th 2022 at 1:49:35 AM

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#412: May 5th 2022 at 6:11:58 PM

Honestly, if there's two changes I'd make to season 4, it's these:

The first is there should've been more fallout from Hawk getting forcibly shaved. It gets glossed over in a way that it shouldn’t. The only real fallout of this incident is that Daniel unsuccessfully confronts Robby about it, and Eli quits karate for part of an episode before Demetri persuades him to join Miyagi-Do.

What I would've done is that I would've had Eagle Fang and Miyagi-Do agree to go after Cobra Kai as revenge after Hawk was attacked, because Cobra Kai broke the "no fighting before the tournament" truce there. They literally choked him with a belt around his neck while holding him down and cutting his hair. That's assault, and I don't see how that somehow doesn't fall under the "no fighting" rule. In turn, I would rewrite the prom fight entirely so that instead of it being about the love square drama, it's about the Miyagi-Fangs getting their revenge. So it doesn't just have Sam fighting Tory and Miguel fighting Robby, but the rest of Miyagi-Fang and Cobra Kai pile in as well, which means we could get a Demetri vs. Kyler fight (because Demetri needs to exact payback for Kyler defacing his cast).

(And amidst all this, I'd have some scenes added of Sam bonding with Hawk over shared trauma, because that had to be a pretty traumatizing experience for Hawk.)

The other change I'd make is that I'd change the tournament finals (and rules) so that the fate of the Valley all comes down to a finals match between Sam and Robby. Daniel's daughter vs. Johnny's son 35 years after their fathers initially fought in this arena. That's a storyline that practically writes itself, and I'd have taken that over Sam vs. Tory for the third straight season finale in a row with the same result (Sam winningnote ).

Edited by dmcreif on May 5th 2022 at 9:13:48 AM

Okey Dokey!
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#413: May 6th 2022 at 6:35:03 AM

Season 5 announcement trailer:

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#414: May 6th 2022 at 6:47:13 AM

"You're playing with fire."

"And I am gasoline."

HOLY FUCK.

dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#415: May 6th 2022 at 6:57:51 AM

I think them moving up the release date is probably because they learned their lesson from how season 4 kinda got reverse-spoiled.

Okey Dokey!
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#417: May 7th 2022 at 3:07:35 AM

[up] I wouldn't count that out just yet. Remember Ali's appearance in Season 3?

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#418: May 7th 2022 at 10:44:05 AM

[up]Which ultimately amounted to nothing. tongue

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#419: May 7th 2022 at 1:06:49 PM

[up] Fair enough but my reply to terlwyth was to tell him or her that if Ali's appearance wasn't spoiled by a trailer, we don't have to dismiss the idea of Swank reprising as Julie Pierce until the season comes out.

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#420: May 7th 2022 at 1:59:31 PM

[up] But it is wishful thinking.

One might as well expect that guy that Daniel first met right before Johnny who Chuck Cunningham'd out after the beach scene to return...or the not love interest in Part III.

The focus is largely Johnny vs Daniel and how they gots to grow the heck up. The whole "Cobra Kai vs Eagle Fang vs Miyagi-Do" phils are all valid is really a ground that ought to have been covered in Season 3 or 2 even, not 4.

To even try and bring in more characters just seems so unlikely.

It's a pity because I genuinely liked that movie more than Part III, and Part III is getting rehab treatment very similar to the Star Wars Prequels.

Edited by terlwyth on May 7th 2022 at 4:04:43 AM

Guy01 Since: Mar, 2015
#421: May 19th 2022 at 5:31:51 PM

Something I've been ruminating on and I've decided to just go ahead and ask here.

Does Tory come off as a Creator's Pet to anybody else or is it just me?

Ok, who let Light Yagami in here?
dmcreif Vault Dweller from Vault 33 (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Robosexual
Vault Dweller
#422: May 19th 2022 at 7:24:59 PM

You're not alone. I definitely get the same impression.

Okey Dokey!
terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010
#423: May 19th 2022 at 10:10:23 PM

[up] That's Hawk to me, or was until this last season.

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#424: May 19th 2022 at 10:16:49 PM

Does Tory come off as a Creator's Pet to anybody else or is it just me?

The past couple of pages have been complaining about Tory (to the point of it going overboard if I may be honest, because it's dominating all other discussion here), so no, it's not just you.

Hfxjfrvnn Since: Jan, 2021
#425: May 21st 2022 at 6:37:26 AM

Does Tory come off as a Creator's Pet to anybody else or is it just me?
Wasn't the big complaint about Tory in Season 3 that the writers went out of their way to make her look bad to make Sam look better? This show runs on Both Sides Have a Point, but most fans will go to any lengths to justify anything their favourites do. Your feelings on Tory are supposed to be mixed at best.


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