A thread discussing similar tropes. If thread participants agree that two (or more) tropes really don't seem distinct enough to be separate, one can start a thread in the Trope Repair Shop for further discussion.
Before asking "What's the difference between these tropes?", check the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions lists. They may contain the answer. Feel free to contribute to them, too.
I've decided to start a new cleanup thread dealing with trope similarities. This thread is for discussing tropes that appear to be a duplicate of another trope, and if it's agreed upon that the two tropes talked about are similar enough, one should start a thread about it in the Trope Repair Shop.
I'll start with my issue...
Asian Hooker Stereotype and Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow are pretty much the same trope—they both involve a white man and an Asian woman.
Edited by Tabs on Nov 1st 2022 at 10:57:37 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
the real redundancy I'd argue is between Torture Always Works and Torture Is Ineffective
i'm at the combination she and it
i know that Continuity Nod and Call-Back are supposed to be separate in that continuity nods aren't plot relevant but call-backs are. but doesn't that just make continuity nod The Same, but More Specific for call-back? it feels like they're used interchangeably, anyway, but even if they are used correctly i don't see a meaningful distinction.
Edited by NoUsername on Jul 28th 2022 at 7:51:46 AM
The description for Badass Israeli says that it doesn't have to just be Israelis but can be anyone Jewish whose Judaism is emphasized enough. How does this usage differ from Real Men Love Jesus, which says it can be applied to any religion?
That sounds like one of those cases of trope description self-sabotage, TBH. The core of that trope seems like national stereotypes deriving from things like the Israeli military and Mossad. It's not really "Badass Jew".
Edited by nrjxll on Jul 29th 2022 at 7:27:53 AM
agree. there's a reason why Jewish and Nerdy is a popular trope in American media. Badass Israeli isn't really applicable to all Jewish people but to Israeli people specifically given the country's mandatory military conscription regardless of gender and its notoriously competent armed forces.
Edited by amathieu13 on Jul 29th 2022 at 9:15:39 AM
Showtime!
Agreed. Applying it to any Jewish person seems like major trope decay.
(she/her)
That part was add back in 2011. Either way, we'll need TRS if we want to propose tightening the definition. I think it's worth doing a wick to gauge wick usage. The Badass trope family has chronic problems with trope decay and misuse anyways.
Macron's notes
So remind me again how Ditzy Genius and Genius Ditz is different?
I'm helping!
From Ditzy Genius directly, "The primary difference between a Ditzy Genius and a Genius Ditz is that a Ditzy Genius has high general intelligence but is highly inept at something more mundane than their intellectual interests (social skills, for example) or lacks common sense, whereas the Genius Ditz usually seems dumb or clueless but is in fact highly proficient in at least one fairly specialized skill or field of knowledge."
... I can't fuckin follow that though I'm not sure whether it's because it makes no sense or because it's currently 2 in the dang morning
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Angry babby
In short: Genius Ditz prioritizes the ditzy in everyday life, Ditzy Genius prioritizes the genius?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
That sounds like the same to me, or at least different levels on the same scale, but they sound like they could be mergable.
Edited by petersohn on Jul 31st 2022 at 9:32:39 PM
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us.
Yeah I def support a wick check. I can imagine these two being used almost interchangeably
I fix my examples all the time
A Genius Ditz is The Ditz but super competent in at least one specific area. A Ditzy Genius is highly intelligent but lacking in mundane things like common sense or social skills.
Graffiti Wall
You can't escape this monster
Please don't cut Ditzy Genius or Genius Ditz.
I'm mainly a fan of underrated media.
Peeks from Under Rocks
So... Genius Ditz is a downplayed Idiot Savant?
This thread cannot make decisions on cutting or merging tropes. However, if we find that two concepts are too similar to stand separately, they might well be taken to TRS. What in specific would cause you to argue that these two should stand independently?
Edited by underCoverSailsman on Jul 31st 2022 at 12:14:10 PM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
TBF, we can't come up with any solid action plan without a wick check, but if the check proves that the two tropes are used interchangeably...
To me the difference here is like Badass Bookworm and Genius Bruiser, where both lean more heavily on the opposite trait to make the other side of them a surprise. But if you just went by their titles, you'd be confused.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
You can't escape this monster
To be honest, I don't have a problem with the merge itself. The problem is that I'm trying to make a characters page without adding any tropes with problems and now I feel like I already failed because I added a Ditzy Genius entry (and he's not the only example, either). Since there are no examples of Genius Ditz as it is now, I guess I shouldn't mind it being displaced.
Since I have two months of vacation, I might do a wick check.
I'm mainly a fan of underrated media.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Eh, if you used the trope correctly then technically you didn't do anything problematic except for use a trope that other people have possibly misused. Which sucks at times, but what can ya do? If you limit yourself to only using things that people haven't considered for TRS at some point, you'll be severely limiting your trope page for no real reason.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 31st 2022 at 1:40:24 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
You can't escape this monster
That's nice to hear. I'm a perfectionist, but I'm mainly limiting the usage of appearance tropes that are not on Meaningful Appearance (e.g. Nice Hat vs Robe and Wizard Hat). I'm still going to add at least some Expy entries, despite its strict definition.
Back on subject, I can start working on a Wick check on Tuesday onwards.
Edited by Dghcrh on Jul 31st 2022 at 9:06:19 PM
I'm mainly a fan of underrated media.
(she/her)
Is there a meaningful distinction between Badass Adorable and Cute Bruiser. The latter is supposed to be for cute, young characters that are good at melee fighting but I don't know how well that reflects with usage. I know Badass Adorable might go to the TRS at some point but I think I'll wick check Cute Bruiser just to see how they compare.
Macron's notes
HoMM Fan
Probably not a bad idea to check Cute Bruiser, although Badass Adorable, being one of the ever-problematic Badass tropes, is almost certainly a source of problems too.
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
(she/her)
Is a kiss enough to separate Belligerent Sexual Tension with Slap-Slap-Kiss and Kiss-Kiss-Slap?
Macron's notes
BST is about the overall dynamic, the others are about specific moments that may or may not occur in a given BST relationship.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Which is a problem because I often just see them used as "Bob and Alice have Slap-Slap-Kiss" which can either be used as a moment or as the dynamic itself.
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 1st 2022 at 6:25:08 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
(she/her)
I see a lot example overlap between so that's why I asked. I am not sure I agree that the slap-kiss moment should be separated from BST but meh. I don't know an example of Slap-Slap-Kiss that isn't also an example of BST on a smaller scale.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 1st 2022 at 6:32:17 AM
Macron's notes