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A thread discussing similar tropes. If thread participants agree that two (or more) tropes really don't seem distinct enough to be separate, one can start a thread in the Trope Repair Shop for further discussion.

Before asking "What's the difference between these tropes?", check the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions lists. They may contain the answer. Feel free to contribute to them, too.


    Original OP 

I've decided to start a new cleanup thread dealing with trope similarities. This thread is for discussing tropes that appear to be a duplicate of another trope, and if it's agreed upon that the two tropes talked about are similar enough, one should start a thread about it in the Trope Repair Shop.

I'll start with my issue...


Asian Hooker Stereotype and Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow are pretty much the same trope—they both involve a white man and an Asian woman.

Edited by Tabs on Nov 1st 2022 at 10:57:37 AM

underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#976: Apr 14th 2021 at 12:31:26 PM

[up]x3 Watsonian vs Doylist perspective:

  • The Disposable Woman only exists in story to be killed off and used as an excuse for the plot. The villain's choice to kill her is only related peripherally to her relationship with the hero, if there is a connection at all.
  • Stuffed in the Fridge is when the killer targets her (and chooses the method of death/disposal) specifically to cause distress to the hero.

Edit:[nja] Also, agree that there is a lot of overlap. Perhaps the descriptions could be tightened down.

Edited by underCoverSailsman on Apr 14th 2021 at 2:32:34 PM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#977: Apr 14th 2021 at 12:32:29 PM

Colloquially "fridging" is used to describe Disposable Woman, The Gwen Stacy etc. in addition to Stuffed into the Fridge, but the TVT definition is "a loved one is killed/hurt by the villain to cause the hero emotional pain".

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 14th 2021 at 2:33:54 PM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#978: Apr 14th 2021 at 7:32:31 PM

I see that there's some duplication between Groin Attack and Crippling Castration (the difference is that the former is generally temporary and the latter is permanent).

Yet, in GroinAttack.Myths And Religion, there are examples of Crippling Castration (i.e. permanent damage to the groin).

Kirby is awesome.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
NoUsername i'm at the combination she and it Since: May, 2012
i'm at the combination she and it
#980: Apr 15th 2021 at 12:50:15 PM

i've noticed some issues with regards to mixing up "Blind Idiot" Translation and Translation Train Wreck. in theory the former is supposed to be "a badly done but still comprehensible translation" and the latter is supposed to be "a translation that completely mangles the original meaning of the text", but in practice i've seen people conflate the two into a general "bad translation" trope; since BIT is the more popular of the two, examples that generally are meant for TTW often end up there instead. even the page image for BIT is misuse (someone pointing this out on Image Pickin' prompted me to make this post).

i don't think they should be merged into a single trope, but maybe the distinction between the two should be made more clear. renaming BIT would be a big undertaking because it's in so many articles, but i think it would help curb misuse if it got a new name that wasn't so overtly hyperbolic and negative. mostly i want to see what other people think about this, though, before i make any big undertakings like making a wick check.

underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#981: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:29:47 PM

[up] BiT isn't that huge if a rename became necessary.

"Blind Idiot" Translation, though, does not mean "Bad but comprehensible." I means "Mechanical, often Overly Literal translation". Whether it's comprehensible or not, or whether what you comprehend from it has any relationship to the original meaning, is entirely coincidental. It's entirely possible for an example to be both BiT and TTW at the same time.

Not sure what could/should be done to fix it, but I don't know if a generic "Poor Translation" concept would really be tropable.

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#982: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:31:07 PM

The issue might be the name. "Blind Idiot" only make sense when you read the description, which we all know people don't do, so it sounds like Translation Trainwreck until then.

Current Project: The Team
wingedcatgirl I'm helping! from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
I'm helping!
#983: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:33:21 PM

It does sound like it means "translated by a blind idiot". Even putting the trope-naming phrase "blind idiot" in quotes might not make it obvious enough...

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#984: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:38:07 PM

"Blind Idiot" Translation has a pretty bad, nonindicative, and frankly bashy name.

[down] I highly doubt most people know about that context. It needs a rename; we should do a wick check.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 15th 2021 at 5:51:43 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#985: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:49:59 PM

[up] Yeah, the description insists that it's named after a translation that got turned into "Blind Idiot", thus not intending to bash the translators but rather describe the result of these translations.

Out of context, it sounds really bad though.

Current Project: The Team
NoUsername i'm at the combination she and it Since: May, 2012
i'm at the combination she and it
#986: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:57:23 PM

"Blind Idiot" Translation, though, does not mean "Bad but comprehensible." I means "Mechanical, often Overly Literal translation". Whether it's comprehensible or not, or whether what you comprehend from it has any relationship to the original meaning, is entirely coincidental. It's entirely possible for an example to be both Bi T and TTW at the same time.

i'm mostly going by the laconic descriptions: BIT is "An overly literal or grammatically incorrect, but still comprehensible, translation," while TTW's is "Translation that's bad to the point of being incomprehensible." if the meanings of the tropes don't match, then we should either change the laconic pages or the whole tropes

Edited by NoUsername on Apr 15th 2021 at 5:57:32 AM

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#987: Apr 15th 2021 at 2:57:52 PM

Yeah, never trust laconics in isolation. They're often wrong.

Current Project: The Team
NoUsername i'm at the combination she and it Since: May, 2012
i'm at the combination she and it
#988: Apr 15th 2021 at 3:00:40 PM

gotcha, alright. if that's the case then i think the tropes should probably be redefined to match the laconic pages rather than the other way around, since they seem like a better distinguisher than "BIT is when a translation is overly literal/mechanical while TTW is when a translation is overly literal/mechanical but worse"

Edited by NoUsername on Apr 15th 2021 at 6:00:56 AM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#990: Apr 15th 2021 at 8:58:55 PM

[up][up]But, TTW isn't supposed to be "BIT, but worse." The later is One possible cause, not the whole story. If use is such that most or all TTW are due to BIT, I'd question whether they are actually separate tropes at all.

Edited by underCoverSailsman on Apr 15th 2021 at 10:59:09 AM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#991: Apr 16th 2021 at 4:27:59 AM

Honestly, I've wondered about this for a while too. The exact same bad translations can actually be found on both pages in a number of cases.

Merseyuser1 Since: Sep, 2011
#992: Apr 25th 2021 at 6:37:36 AM

It's been discussed before, but shouldn't Overtook the Manga and Overtook the Series be more clearly defined, and/or renamed for the second trope?

I remember a 2011 discussion on this which suggested the following titles for Overtook the Series:

I've noticed on the Overtook the Series page the examples seem to be very brief in some cases.

wingedcatgirl I'm helping! from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
I'm helping!
#993: Apr 25th 2021 at 7:45:21 AM

The titles of Overtook the Manga and Overtook the Series should be clearer about the distinction between the two, yes.

One of them is about overtaking an ongoing series, and one of them is about overtaking a completed series. Neither the word "manga" nor the word "series" describes this difference at all. Also for some reason OTM is trivia and OTS is not.

(For that matter, is that a distinction worth making in the first place...?)

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Apr 25th 2021 at 9:50:07 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Merseyuser1 Since: Sep, 2011
#994: Apr 25th 2021 at 2:40:59 PM

[up] It may well be, since there's still some confusion even now about the titles. I can't find the original 2011 discussion.

NoUsername i'm at the combination she and it Since: May, 2012
i'm at the combination she and it
#995: Apr 27th 2021 at 11:53:35 AM

so with Bee Afraid's old definition being moved to Scary Stinging Swarm, it now seems very likely to overlap with Wicked Wasps the same way "Everything's Worse With Bees" and "Gosh Hornet" were initially merged into Bee Afraid to begin with. should wicked wasp's scope be made more narrow (like a "Wicked Wasps versus Virtuous Bees" scenario), or should it just be merged again?

Edited by NoUsername on Apr 27th 2021 at 2:54:45 PM

Delibirda from Splatsville Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
#996: Apr 29th 2021 at 3:12:21 AM

I dunno.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
Malady (Not-So-Newbie)
#997: Apr 29th 2021 at 5:42:33 AM

Hmm. Well, Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass does have good bees. And Cup Head's do nominally exist in a civillization...

While wasps. Never seen a good one?

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
NoUsername i'm at the combination she and it Since: May, 2012
i'm at the combination she and it
#998: Apr 29th 2021 at 6:46:17 AM

yeah that's what i mean, in pop culture it's typically boiled down to either "good bees contrasted with bad wasps" or "all bees/wasps/hornets are bad" so it would make sense to me to merge Bee Afraid with Wicked Wasp. unless we specifically redefine wicked wasps to be a Good Animals, Evil Animals subtrope with bees vs. wasps

Edited by NoUsername on Apr 29th 2021 at 9:49:02 AM

WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
#999: Apr 29th 2021 at 10:40:58 AM

[up] Er, you're gonna have to make a TRS thread for that idea, btw.

Current Project: The Team
NoUsername i'm at the combination she and it Since: May, 2012
i'm at the combination she and it
#1000: Apr 29th 2021 at 12:01:21 PM

right, right, i was just checking here to see if it'd be a feasible idea or not


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