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Duplicate tropes discussion thread

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A thread discussing similar tropes.

Note that two tropes being distinct in theory does that mean they are distinct in practice. If participants agree that two (or more) tropes really don't seem distinct enough to be separate, one can start a thread in the Trope Repair Shop for further discussion. A a wick check demonstrating redundancy will likely be required, though.

Before asking "What's the difference between these tropes?", check the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions lists. They may contain the answer. Feel free to contribute to them, too.


    Original OP 

I've decided to start a new cleanup thread dealing with trope similarities. This thread is for discussing tropes that appear to be a duplicate of another trope, and if it's agreed upon that the two tropes talked about are similar enough, one should start a thread about it in the Trope Repair Shop.

I'll start with my issue...


Asian Hooker Stereotype and Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow are pretty much the same trope—they both involve a white man and an Asian woman.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 8th 2024 at 5:29:57 AM

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#426: Feb 13th 2020 at 10:15:44 AM

[up] The difference is supposed to be the following:

That said, who says that a work can't have multiple morals?

Edited by Brainulator9 on Feb 13th 2020 at 1:18:19 PM

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4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#427: Feb 13th 2020 at 3:09:11 PM

[up] I agree that a work can teach multiple things at once, but for those two tropes, some of them has to be unintended.

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#428: Feb 15th 2020 at 6:01:32 AM

[up][up]The laconic and the first paragraph of Accidental Aesop says that it also applies when the audience read a different aesop than what was intended. Should that line be changed/removed then?

Also, I want to know how, in Accidental Aesop, we can know if the particular aesop is not intended to be present?

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#429: Feb 16th 2020 at 10:38:10 AM

Is there a meaningful distinction between Clockwork Prediction and Three... Two... One...?

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
KingOfStickers Since: Jul, 2014
#430: Feb 16th 2020 at 11:25:47 AM

These two tropes: Would You Do It For A Scooby Snack? and Scooby Snacks should be merged in my opinion.The only difference that I see between is that the former is like the latter, but with extra steps.

Edited by KingOfStickers on Feb 16th 2020 at 7:29:55 PM

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#431: Feb 16th 2020 at 12:15:55 PM

Both of those are redirects.

Heroism Incentive is when a hero needs an incentive to do heroing — not necessarily food.

Food as Bribe is when food is used as a bribe — not necessarily for the purpose of getting a hero to hero.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Feb 16th 2020 at 12:16:22 PM

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#433: Feb 16th 2020 at 6:42:48 PM

She Cleans Up Nicely seems to suggest that the difference is that Beautiful All Along is a permanent change.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#434: Feb 16th 2020 at 7:13:37 PM

[up] I always thought that She Cleans Up Nicely was just a character that can dress nice when situation calls for it but otherwise they don't much effort in to their appearance. While Beautiful All Along is when a character who is thought as Hollywood Ugly gets a permanant makeover or stops wear the things that were considered to be obscuring their beauty. Similar concepts but think they are distinct enough to keep seperate.

Macron's notes
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#435: Feb 17th 2020 at 11:23:40 PM

[up]Well, it certainly doesn't help that the page image for both seems to show the exact same thing.

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#436: Feb 18th 2020 at 5:43:35 AM

White Man's Burden vs Mighty Whitey. I've noticed the two tropes get confused for one another a lot.

wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#437: Feb 18th 2020 at 8:25:08 AM

White Man's Burden: Ordinary white character is (older works: inherently better) (newer works: societally privileged) and therefore obligated to help the less fortunate races.

Mighty Whitey: Ordinary white character visits foreign society and is better at what the foreigners do than they are. The narrative takes this for granted.

There's a lot of overlap, I'll admit, but they're definitely different tropes.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#438: Feb 18th 2020 at 11:29:15 AM

Brainulator brought up here that Used to Be a Tomboy seems like Girliness Upgrade but more specific.

Keet cleanup
Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#439: Feb 18th 2020 at 1:04:24 PM

[up] Girliness Upgrade tends to be more meta, with a character being made more feminine due to out-of-universe reasons. It's also used for examples that are related to Character Development over the course of the series.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#440: Feb 18th 2020 at 1:17:28 PM

That's... a bit of a tautology. Girliness Upgrade is for out-of-universe reasons, except when it's for in-universe reasons?

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#441: Feb 18th 2020 at 1:20:44 PM

^ That's how it's used at least. I'd put in-universe stuff on Used to Be a Tomboy. The description for Girliness Upgrade sounds meta focused. Wouldn't that be trivia, though?

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#442: Feb 18th 2020 at 1:42:24 PM

[up]It's not trivia any more than tropes like Adaptational Attractiveness.

Keet cleanup
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#443: Feb 18th 2020 at 6:56:46 PM

I thought someone said somewhere that a Girliness Upgrade is a change within the work (or from one work to another), while Used to Be a Tomboy is a Backstory trait.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#444: Feb 19th 2020 at 10:49:35 AM

^ That's my understanding as well.

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#445: Feb 19th 2020 at 12:33:47 PM

In that case, I'd like to go to TRS to better enforce the split between in-universe and meta examples.

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Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#446: Feb 20th 2020 at 12:23:51 PM

Judged by the description, Ocean Madness is exactly the same thing as Cabin Fever, except that the former is restricted to ships and the latter is on a ship or some other place. Cabin fever is even named after a ship's cabin.

This strikes me as redundant. Am I missing something here?

Snicka Since: Jun, 2011
#447: Feb 21st 2020 at 3:00:14 AM

[up]The description says Cabin Fever "is a land-based trope" to distinguish it from Ocean Madness, but indeed, I'm not sure if the land-sea distinction is enough to warrant a separate trope, especially if the phrase indeed comes from the ship compartment ("cabin" can also mean a small shelter or house on land).

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#448: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:39:02 AM

[up] It says it's land based, but it also says the cabin "might be a ship", and a number of the examples involve either a ship or a spaceship. Including, notably, the muppet movie which "is" Ocean Madness but in-work "they call it" Cabin Fever.

I don't think this is a meaningful distinction to have. Any thoughts on how to fix it?

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#450: Feb 21st 2020 at 10:17:25 AM

I'd rather keep both as sister tropes next to Space Madness.


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