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A thread discussing similar tropes.

Note that two tropes being distinct in theory does that mean they are distinct in practice. If participants agree that two (or more) tropes really don't seem distinct enough to be separate, one can start a thread in the Trope Repair Shop for further discussion. A a wick check demonstrating redundancy will likely be required, though.

Before asking "What's the difference between these tropes?", check the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions lists. They may contain the answer. Feel free to contribute to them, too.


    Original OP 

I've decided to start a new cleanup thread dealing with trope similarities. This thread is for discussing tropes that appear to be a duplicate of another trope, and if it's agreed upon that the two tropes talked about are similar enough, one should start a thread about it in the Trope Repair Shop.

I'll start with my issue...


Asian Hooker Stereotype and Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow are pretty much the same trope—they both involve a white man and an Asian woman.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 8th 2024 at 5:29:57 AM

jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#3827: Jan 17th 2025 at 6:35:52 PM

The former is a character trope (a facet of one's personality), while the latter is a plot trope (something that happens under certain circumstances). Let's Get Dangerous! also doesn't apply to exclusively goofy/silly characters, but also ones who are generally flawed.

NicMasterTrope (Troper in training)
#3828: Jan 18th 2025 at 9:42:37 AM

So looking back to my editing research, I have discovered that examples of tropes Evil Counterpart, Foil, Mirror Character, and Shadow Archetype are frequently overlapping with one another. However, it leads to a lot of confusion on whether the example listed her does count or is misused.
We already know that:

  • Evil Counterpart: A villainous/good character, that is both similar and contrasts protagonist/antagonist
  • Foil: Character that heavily contrasts the other one
  • Mirror Character: Character that is highly similar to the other one
  • Shadow Archetype: A character that shows the other one what they could’ve become if they let their darkest traits corrupt them.

As far as I remember, Foil and Mirror Character are natural opposites of one another, so technically speaking they should not overlap with one another, and if they do, then it should be Evil Counterpart at very least. But Shadow Archetype is highly similar to Evil Counterpart so they can overlap. So the point is I would like to ask all your help in sorting the confusion surrounding these tropes out and find when they can be distinguished from each other, as well as to tell which of these tropes can overlap with one another (especially the last part).

Just to clarify, I agree that all tropes are separate and deserve to stay, but the issue I have with them is how to know which of these tropes can overlap with one another

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#3829: Jan 18th 2025 at 6:36:08 PM

[up]

NicMasterTrope (Troper in training)
#3830: Jan 18th 2025 at 10:20:15 PM

[up]I already know these ones. I’m asking about the rest of it as I described above

Allisterarch Water-Breathing Human from Ridiculous Procrastination zone (Striking Back) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
#3831: Jan 19th 2025 at 4:54:46 AM

Foils and Mirror Characters are not necessarily evil. They could be The Rival, an alternate universe counterpart, even their best friend. Also as I understand it the foil heavily contrasts a character but has a similar character arc, while the mirror character is similar but has a contrasting arc.

If Aquaman is "Nobody's favorite superhero", then I am Odysseus. (They/Them) (Troper Wall)
petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#3832: Jan 19th 2025 at 5:02:36 AM

[up]As I understand, that's the difference, yes, but it's not necessarily an arc but some character traits. It seems to me that there is a blurry line when someone becomes a Foil from a Mirror Character.

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
TMH-Sir-Iron-Vomit The clown of STEEL from Ichnusa Since: Mar, 2024
The clown of STEEL
#3833: Jan 20th 2025 at 1:48:16 AM

So, I just launched Drawback-Mitigating Mechanic... and only today I (and others, I assume) remembered that One Hero, Hold the Weaksauce exists.

Oo oo ah ah
Allisterarch Water-Breathing Human from Ridiculous Procrastination zone (Striking Back) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
#3834: Jan 20th 2025 at 3:30:43 AM

[up] If you have concerns about redundancy, you can go to this thread and request for it to be unlaunched.

Edited by Allisterarch on Feb 17th 2025 at 8:13:24 AM

If Aquaman is "Nobody's favorite superhero", then I am Odysseus. (They/Them) (Troper Wall)
Ner0014reN Since: Aug, 2023
#3835: Jan 20th 2025 at 4:09:03 AM

[up][up] OHHTW seems to be more of a narrative trope? The other one is a gameplay trope

TMH-Sir-Iron-Vomit The clown of STEEL from Ichnusa Since: Mar, 2024
The clown of STEEL
#3836: Jan 20th 2025 at 4:27:26 AM

I could unlaunch it... not before I have enough consensus from other tropers.

And yes, there's the important distinction that Drawback-Mitigating Mechanic is a, well, game mechanic-centric trope. One Hero, Hold the Weaksauce focuses more on how it fits in the narrative.

Oo oo ah ah
cannen144 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
#3838: Jan 20th 2025 at 12:13:08 PM

[up]Ho Yay is specific to same-sex interpretations, if I recall correctly, whereas Platonic Writing, Romantic Reading isn't. I do know there's a Ho Yay Cleanup thread (found here) that might be able to clear things up a bit more.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#3839: Jan 20th 2025 at 12:17:27 PM

Yeah, Ho Yay is specifically about people reading gay subtext where none was meant to exist.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Khoshekh6 Since: May, 2022
#3840: Jan 20th 2025 at 1:44:08 PM

Ah, right, somehow I missed the obvious

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#3841: Jan 21st 2025 at 6:37:02 PM

Is there a proper distinction between Didn't Think This Through and It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time? I assumed it was because the latter was a stock phrase... but then it turns out both of them are categorized under Stock Phrases.

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#3842: Jan 21st 2025 at 7:11:08 PM

I'm not really sure why Didn't Think This Through is categorized as a stock phrase; the page describes a situation, not a phrase, and a vast majority of examples don't appear to involve the title verbatim (even if it could be used as a Stock Phrase, it almost never is). The same can't be said for It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time, though that one seems to have always been intended to be broader than just "this specific phrase is uttered".

From what I can glean, the actual distinction is:

Both can theoretically overlap (Bob hatches a plan to steal a jewel from a museum with Alice, but when they finally reach the jewel, they discover that the glass is nigh-unbreakable; Bob admits to Alice that just smashing it with a hammer "seemed like a good idea at the time"), but the former seems to emphasize "coming up with an idea, but later realizing you overlooked a significant drawback" (Bob plans to just smash the glass with a hammer, but doesn't consider that it would likely be very sturdy), while the latter seems to focus more on "making a singular action, then later realizing that action was ultimately for the worse" (Bob brings just a hammer to the museum, not considering bringing more effective tools).

Edited by jandn2014 on Jan 21st 2025 at 10:11:40 AM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#3843: Jan 21st 2025 at 7:56:39 PM

Screw This, I'm Outta Here! and Villain: Exit, Stage Left at the very least seem often confused for one another.

What is the difference between them according to this thread.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#3844: Jan 22nd 2025 at 5:28:00 AM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#3845: Jan 22nd 2025 at 8:11:59 PM

[up]

I thought similar, but nearly every case of a villain leaving an area or luring the heroes to a definite battlefield is labeled Screw This, I'm Outta Here!

  • Screw This, I'm Outta Here!:
    • At the end of the second part of stage 2, Hornitron is defeated last, then blinks in and out, and escapes from the screen.
    • Inverting the movie's plot, it's Ivan Ooze/Hornitron that makes a strategic escape to space in stage 6 when his life meter is almost down, not the Rangers' Ninjazord.

Just off the top of my head, in both these examples on Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers: The Movie (Mega Drive), the villains leaves a battlefield for pragmatic/understandable reasons and continue their evil plot.

There's also Not What I Signed on For being listed in the page description of Screw This, I'm Outta Here!, when again a job going against one's moral principle seems like a valid reason to quit something.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#3846: Jan 23rd 2025 at 9:52:56 AM

^ I think those two examples are a better fit for Villain: Exit, Stage Left.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#3847: Jan 24th 2025 at 6:32:16 AM

Hollywood Autism vs. Hollywood Intellectual Disability? I know the former has definition issues but how much do the two overlap? Is it just one being autism and one being all intellectual disabilities, or is there more overlap? I'm collecting info for a future TRS and I also want to know if the former is covered by the latter.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 24th 2025 at 9:37:01 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#3848: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:27:14 AM

I would expect Hollywood Autism to have a broader range of impacts, including behavioral/emotional/social aspects.

underCoverSailsman Peeks from Under Rocks from State of Flux Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Peeks from Under Rocks
#3849: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:36:22 AM

I'd also keep in mind that not all Autistic persons have the same needs, and some don't consider their autistic traits to be a disability in the first place.

TMH-Sir-Iron-Vomit The clown of STEEL from Ichnusa Since: Mar, 2024

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