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A thread discussing similar tropes.

Note that two tropes being distinct in theory does that mean they are distinct in practice. If participants agree that two (or more) tropes really don't seem distinct enough to be separate, one can start a thread in the Trope Repair Shop for further discussion. A a wick check demonstrating redundancy will likely be required, though.

Before asking "What's the difference between these tropes?", check the Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and Laconical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions lists. They may contain the answer. Feel free to contribute to them, too.


    Original OP 

I've decided to start a new cleanup thread dealing with trope similarities. This thread is for discussing tropes that appear to be a duplicate of another trope, and if it's agreed upon that the two tropes talked about are similar enough, one should start a thread about it in the Trope Repair Shop.

I'll start with my issue...


Asian Hooker Stereotype and Mighty Whitey and Mellow Yellow are pretty much the same trope—they both involve a white man and an Asian woman.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 8th 2024 at 5:29:57 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#3476: Jul 28th 2024 at 10:32:19 PM

And? What does that actually change?

(Also, images are hardly a good way to determine how different tropes are. Just saying.)

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
FSharp Resisting a rest Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I wanna know what love is
#3477: Jul 28th 2024 at 10:34:11 PM

Read this from the description:

As opposed to tropes like Power Glows and Bling of War, Color-Coded Item Tiers are strictly non-diegetic, used only to help the player distinguish the item's power through inventory background or item name color.

I don't just Wiki Talk the talk. I Wiki Walk the walk.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#3478: Jul 28th 2024 at 10:35:13 PM

Still the same core concept?

Maybe it's the lumper in me but I cannot for the life of me see these two concepts as distinct when the end result is completely identical for the audience.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
FSharp Resisting a rest Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I wanna know what love is
#3479: Jul 28th 2024 at 10:40:02 PM

Completely identical for the audience, yes, but not for the characters.

I admit that the tropes are similar, but the definition of Law of Chromatic Superiority would have to be expanded (into a Missing Supertrope) for Color-Coded Item Tiers to be The Same, but More Specific.

Edited by FSharp on Jul 28th 2024 at 1:42:33 PM

I don't just Wiki Talk the talk. I Wiki Walk the walk.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#3480: Jul 29th 2024 at 12:18:24 AM

Law of Chromatic Superiority is when something is painted better In-Universe. Color-Coded Item Tiers is specific to user interface. Both are subtropes of Colour-Coded for Your Convenience.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Zakura Since: Aug, 2011
#3481: Jul 29th 2024 at 7:08:19 AM

I'm confused regarding Media Transmigration and its supposed subtrope Next Life as a Fictional Character.

Media Transmigration is defined in the description as a person ending up as a character in an in-universe fictional medium they have some knowledge of (book, game etc.), usually by dying and reincarnating, but also by other means. The character they end up as is pre-existing (i.e. they are Body Snatching) and can be a hero, a villain or a minor character. Next Life as a Fictional Character is listed as a subtrope where the fictional character that was taken over must be a major named character.

Next Life as a Fictional Character is defined in the description as a person reincarnating as an in-universe fictional character. That character is established and can be a hero, villain or minor character. Media Transmigration is listed as a supertrope. This subtrope ostensibly is more specific in that character in the "real world" is reincarnated as a character in a fictional work they knew of.

Do you see my conundrum here? The definition of the subtrope on Media Transmigration does not really make sense, as Next Life as a Fictional Character has no restriction that the character being reincarnated into has to be a major one. On Next Life as a Fictional Character, the defining factor splitting it from Media Transmigration is the method of transmigration, i.e. it has to be reincarnation instead of summoning/going through a portal/just "waking up" in the other world etc. From my experience reading works in that genre, this distinction is not really a distiction at all — most of the time, the character "just ends up in that Show Within a Show" and returning to the previous life is just not done. By looking at the examples, there are still a lot of them on Media Transmigration where the method is reincarnation. There are also a lot of duplicates where both tropes have examples from the same medium, but written independently from each other.

Does anyone here know the history of how those two came to be? Does this subtrope need to exist at all? (if yes, there needs to be a clean-up...). For the record, I'm fine with keeping the sub-subtrope "Reborn as Villainess" Story as it is, as this is a very clearly defined subgenre.

Edited by Zakura on Jul 29th 2024 at 7:10:38 AM

Vehek Since: May, 2012
#3482: Jul 29th 2024 at 10:09:14 AM

I was there when Next Life as a Fictional Character was in TLP a mere year and a half after Media Transmigration, but didn't press the issue when I really should have. The alleged difference put forward by its creator when I asked was that it would be about "established" characters, ruling out those stories where a MMORPG avatar becomes real, nor could they remain themselves. That annoyed me since the first part was the core assumption in Media Transmigration's original draft too, but I didn't point that out and only bombed the draft. And a duplication of Overlord (2012) slipped through later after launch anyway. No clean-up was done to shift usage over from Media Transmigration, and I think usage of either trope depends on which one the troper is aware of rather than any supposed narrower definition.

I suppose all that's left now for Media Transmigration are stories that aren't really "transmigration" in the sense of a new body and face but stories where the characters still look like themselves, but are recognized as some other character in the other world.

DanteVin The Time Has Come from Somewhere Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Singularity
#3483: Jul 29th 2024 at 11:09:44 AM

Difference between The Slow Walk and Ominous Walk?

I'm asking because, try looking at their lists and you can find a few duplicate or redundant entries like: Vergil from Devil May Cry and the Working Joes from Alien: Isolation.

With Great Power, Comes Great Motivation
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3484: Jul 29th 2024 at 2:57:45 PM

The Slow Walk: Hero walks slowly and dramatically to build up a beatdown

Ominous Walk: For extra scariness, villain/monster slowly creeps up on victim

Zakura Since: Aug, 2011
#3485: Jul 30th 2024 at 7:33:28 AM

^^ Re Media Transmigration — so that's just great. At least these are pretty new tropes, so use of both should not be that wide-spread. Interesting that the OP of the second draft also used the "established character" as a criterium — but in Media Transmigration's description, it also mentions reincarnation as a fictional character as foundational. If the super trope is clearly retooled as Isekai, but the world is a Show Within a Show, and the subtrope stays as "reincarnation as an established fictional character" and everything was cleaned up nicely, that might work... But that would leave the supertrope with, as you mentioned, with only examples where "you become someone else fitting in that world who was not explicitly established as a named character (e.g. mob transmigration stories)"/"you become your own Player Character". That is kinda rough, especially because Transmigration is the defining genre name. In my opinion, a split is kind of superfluous. I'm also not a fan of a split by transmigration method, as the difference was defined on the subtrope page, as the end result/influence on the plot is pretty much the same.

I'm thinking about preparing a wick check on how the two tropes are used on here and opening a new topic to get a consensus on what to do (clean up, go to TRS etc.)

MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#3486: Jul 30th 2024 at 7:41:51 AM

[up]Considering one trope seems to have been defined with an inaccurate view of the definition of the other, and neither trope might quite be getting at the core of what they're trying to describe, TRS might be warranted except in the unlikely scenario where they're being used for distinct and tropeworthy purposes.

Vehek Since: May, 2012
#3487: Aug 2nd 2024 at 6:53:52 PM

[up][up]I was actually referring to examples more on the side of Trapped in TV Land like Pleasantville where they take on the identities of characters in the Show Within a Show temporarily but at least to the audience's eyes still look the same.

The sponsor for Next Life as a Fictional Character said this in the draft when asked if an avatar example counted:

You must reincarnate into a whole new person in the work of fiction instead of just an avatar. That’s why background characters still count.
So unfortunately, by that definition, even mob transmigration isn't left over for the supertrope.

[up]Hmm...Now I'm wondering if maybe they thought Media Transmigration was as broad in the varieties of identities in the other world as a Self-Insert Fic. It would explain why they said to me that there were cases of the supertrope where the characters remained themselves, which would make sense for a more general Isekai story or a Self-Insert Fic, but not with the common English Fanspeak usage of transmigration where an identity change is an inherent element, Show Within a Show or not.

Edited by Vehek on Aug 2nd 2024 at 7:57:56 AM

NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#3488: Aug 4th 2024 at 1:11:32 PM

actually while i'm thinking about them Kinder and Cleaner and Tamer and Chaster are both just the same but more specific for Bowdlerise aren't they

animuacid The girl of the window from Astyr residence in Lilysthia's grounds Since: Jan, 2024 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
The girl of the window
#3489: Aug 4th 2024 at 2:00:34 PM

[up] I'm not sure that's the case. Bowdlerise is about the same work, but with questionble elements removed and has a negative connotation. Meanwhile, Tamer and Chaster and Kinder and Cleaner are for adaptations and sequels. They can also be Tone Shifts within the same work.

Edited by animuacid on Aug 4th 2024 at 11:01:50 AM

NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#3491: Aug 4th 2024 at 3:15:38 PM

[up][up] i don't think bowdlerise has a strictly negative connotation to it; tropes outside of audience reactions are generally neutral. i can see the point about bowdlerise not including tone shifts within a series, but i'm fairly certain it applies to adaptations (after all, it's named after thomas bowdler, a guy who edited the bible and shakespeare's works)

Coachpill Taxidermy (he/him) from Gen Z Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Taxidermy (he/him)
#3492: Aug 4th 2024 at 3:44:57 PM

[up][up] It's been brought up before but people seem to agree that there's little to no difference

Your goateed philistine is sashaying towards us. | 🧱
Opabinia Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#3494: Aug 5th 2024 at 10:22:52 PM

I think the difference is the tone. As the titles say, one is about insults, the other about snarks.

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (3,795/50,000)
#3495: Aug 5th 2024 at 10:24:49 PM

Yeah, there's a difference between trading insults and just being snarky at each-other. They can overlap but snark is more about wit and quick reaction time over just being hurtful.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
FSharp Resisting a rest Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I wanna know what love is
#3497: Aug 6th 2024 at 11:04:47 PM

Then there's Hyperlink Story, which is supposedly a Sister Trope of You All Share My Story.

As I see it:

Edited by FSharp on Aug 6th 2024 at 2:17:56 PM

I don't just Wiki Talk the talk. I Wiki Walk the walk.
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
guardianofthepark Since: Jun, 2024
#3499: Aug 7th 2024 at 3:41:17 AM

Channel Hop and Franchise Ownership Acquisition seems to be used interchangeably on some pages, what are the differences?

NoUsername she's only programmed to be very nice Since: May, 2012
she's only programmed to be very nice
#3500: Aug 7th 2024 at 8:21:53 AM

[up][up] Two Lines, No Waiting describes the "A plot / B plot" structure where there are two or more related storylines happening at the same time; they can merge or overlap, but it's not required. Hyperlink Story is a specific variant of this structure where there are several (three or more) seemingly unrelated stories that converge into a single plot over the course of the work


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