Needs Help: The The Title

Would you be for cutting the current trope, since it's basically Idiosyncratic Episode Naming, as currently described, but taking Definite Article Title or whatever, to TLP?

Edited by Malady on Oct 16th 2018 at 7:20:16 AM

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That's where I've been disagreeing and supporting, at minimum, a large revision to this trope. Plenty of works are known both with and without their (in)definite articles.

• Is it the Iliad or The Iliad?
• Is it Beauty and the Beast or The Beauty and the Beast? Both characters are unique in their story, ostracized by the village.
• Does Lucian of Samosata's famous Science Fiction story translate into The True History, A True History, or just True History? (Ignoring the different possibilities of History/Story.)

These possibilities do have overlapping meaning; adding/removing "the" doesn't change the story. There is formal advice to remove the articles when possible: link. Cases where a title starts with "the", "an", or "a" does not affect the work when compared to the same title without it. Rather than "yeah", the comparison should be "oh"; it is a placeholder sound that occasionally but doesn't always have meaning.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Well, you've got The "The" Title Confusion for some of that? Translation Tropes for when those are needed, too...

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So, crowner?

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How do we make one? Do we just say the choices then a mod turns them into one?

The options seem to be:

• Cut as its a subtrope of Idiosyncratic Episode Naming. And don't make something like Definite Article Title
• Cut, for the same reason as above, but take Definite Article Title to TLP.

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I think most everyone is actually in consensus that the trope's description places it in Idiosyncratic Episode Naming, but I'm not sure.

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I wasn't aware of that trope. Yes, The "The" Title Confusion is my basis for saying "Titles that start with 'the' or 'a' isn't a trope, only specific uses are tropes."

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

How Crowners Work

I'm seeing the following options:

1. Cut the page
2. Create Definite Article Title TLP
3. Fold The The Title into Idiosyncratic Episode Naming as an internal subtrope
4. Re-write to clarify that it's a subtrope of Idiosyncratic Episode Naming, clean up misuse

1-3 are not mutually exclusive, 3&4 are.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Created a crowner.

Edited by eroock on Oct 27th 2018 at 1:49:37 PM

Bump for crowner action

Can the crowner be hooked? Or do hooked crowners still not work?

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^ No idea.

^^^^ Question to option 2: If we create Definite Article Title what happens with The The Title and its examples? What's the definition of Definite Article Title?

- The The Title would likely either get cut with an explanatory message pointing people to Definite Article Title, Idiosyncratic Episode Naming, and/or The "The" Title Confusion, or this thread...

Or get turned into a disambig between those tropes?

Edited by Malady on Nov 25th 2018 at 8:30:13 AM

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Just for the record, some people cannot vote in crowners anymore, myself included.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty

So, that Crowner was made... x6... Can it be hooked?

Edited by Malady on Dec 25th 2018 at 9:38:04 AM

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Sure, done.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

So, there's 4:0 for Definite Article Title TLP... But everything else is contested...

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Option 1 is at 1:2 (3 total votes)
Option 2 is at 6:0 (6 total votes)
Option 3 is at 3:4 (7 total votes)
Option 4 is at 1:2 (3 total votes)

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

"2. Create Definite Article Title TLP" is the only crowner option with a positive ratio, and it's unanimous (11 yeas, 0 nays).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 8th 2019 at 4:41:49 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I don't think it should list every single work with a "the" in its title. Just some general trends on article use in titles or something.

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I agree, this is a self demonstrating trope that doesn't really need examples, because any examples will be self-evident.

Optimism is a duty.

IIRC, no one's made the draft yet, and what's the plan for The The Title?

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Any reason to go through TLP instead of just moving to Definite Article Title after Sandboxing a description?

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