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Kimetsu no Yaiba (Demon Slayer)

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Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#2276: Jun 9th 2021 at 4:55:51 PM

Also some Demons broke free of his control we have three examples. So his paranoia has some basis.

Edited by Envyus on Jun 9th 2021 at 5:56:49 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#2277: Jun 9th 2021 at 5:01:12 PM

And one of the ones who did was instrumental in his eventual defeat, despite not being a match for him, power-wise.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#2278: Jun 9th 2021 at 5:25:15 PM

Three? The only one I can remember is Tamayo (not counting Yushiro because he didn't make him, Tamayo did).

Edit: You know, it says a lot about Nezuko that her entire existence can slip my mind so easily...

Edited by LSBK on Jun 9th 2021 at 7:29:45 AM

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#2279: Jun 9th 2021 at 8:20:21 PM

[up]The man who he turned to distract Tanjirou, Tamayo and Nezuko.

Also Muzan paranoid probably got worse after he faced Yoriichi. Everytime Muzan got cocky always end up with thing go badly for him. The final arc started because Muzan got cocky and assume he got the upperhand, not realizing he is walkig into a trap.

Edited by BattleRaizer on Jun 9th 2021 at 10:20:46 PM

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#2280: Jun 10th 2021 at 2:34:03 AM

I think backing out of Demon Tanjiro at the last second made the ending that much weaker for it. It's been teased for the longest of times that he's got this uncanny look whenever he gets up in arms, and even the cover teased it by putting him next to the deceased Pillars (incidentally, the fact that Matsuri was killed off just so she and Iguro could die together is some skeevy fucking shit).

Tanjiro could still demonstrate the triumph of friendship and good by being pulled out by the spirits of those who already ascended to heaven, like his family and Rengoku, and leave Muzan in his pit. As it is, not only the de-demonification of Nezuko went off without a hitch (and 99% of the time, explaining a plan to the audience will ensure its inevitable failure in some fashion), but also Tanjiro just going "lol no" and reviving (with Kanao's token help) just kind of left a tepid, middling impression.

[up][up] That's what happens when you get benched for the last two arcs.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Jun 10th 2021 at 11:36:36 AM

Goukenimaru Since: Sep, 2010
#2281: Jun 10th 2021 at 7:52:16 AM

[up][up][up] The man used as a distraction was treated by Tamayo to break free though, she was experimenting the drug to turn Nezuko back into a human on him. The legitimate examples of who broke free from Muzan's curse out of sheer will was Nezuko and Akaza (in his final moment). Tamayo for one broke free after Yoriichi almost killed Muzan, and Yushiro is the only demon produced entirely out of Muzan's curse.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#2282: Jun 10th 2021 at 6:26:07 PM

I actually liked Demon Tanjiro, brief as it was, but it could have been built up more. That play is like one of the few things to make Muzan actually seem interesting.

The part about him overcoming the soon almost immediately was pretty eyebrow raising, even though it's probably meant to be intentionally ironic that Tanjiro of all people had greater potential as a demon than anyone.

reppuzan Since: Dec, 2014
#2283: Jun 10th 2021 at 9:30:39 PM

Muzan is probably the weakest Big Bad of a long-running Shonen Jump work in some time. He spends the entire series hiding while also acting as an Orcus on His Throne despite having the power to wipe out all of his enemies in a single night, lacks any real charisma, is motivated entirely by his fear of death, and is petty from start to finish. He comes across as short-sighted, impulsive, and stupid, while also being just powerful enough that no one can talk back to him or interact with him long enough for him to have any meaningful relationships besides everyone hating him.

He just... doesn't do anything to make the audience like or fear him all that much until the absolute finale. Hell, all of his underlings are more interesting than him both power-wise and personality-wise.

Edited by reppuzan on Jun 10th 2021 at 9:30:52 AM

Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#2284: Jun 10th 2021 at 10:59:03 PM

I don't agree with that. I find him despicable in a love to hate way.

This one page sold me on him pretty well.

[1]

Edited by Envyus on Jun 10th 2021 at 11:59:33 AM

BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#2285: Jun 10th 2021 at 11:30:07 PM

[up][up]That's the point thought? No one suppose to like or scare of him once they see what kind of person he really is. There are more than one way to to write a final villain. In essense, Muzan is the anti thesis of Tanjirou and The Demon Slayer's leader. Also Muzan been a boring one trick pony make sense when you considerate he have never fight anyone beside Yoriichi for hundred of years. He never have to change or overcome anything compare to his minions.

Edited by BattleRaizer on Jun 11th 2021 at 1:32:28 AM

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#2286: Jun 11th 2021 at 12:08:37 PM

"The author intended for the Big Bad to be boring and uncharismatic" does not make that a good writing decision.

Throughout the entire story I was left baffled by why the writer seemed to be actively trying to make me care as little about Muzan as possible.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 11th 2021 at 2:11:43 PM

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#2287: Jun 11th 2021 at 1:05:33 PM

If theres one thing CyberConnect2 can fix, its Demon Tanjirou as the final boss of whatever game in the Hinokami Chronicles series he'll appear in, like get details on what his full moveset is like from the author. They already did that with the spirits of the water breath users from the first training arc.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Jun 11th 2021 at 4:06:34 AM

Watch Symphogear
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#2288: Jun 11th 2021 at 2:25:50 PM

[up][up] tbh, I feel this depends on the story and what the author wants to do.

Muzan feels a throwback to classic villains; when they're just evil for its own sake and are kind of boring to serve as foils for the more upright heroes.

His purpose feels more like he's Tanjiro's antithesis as opposed to his own character.

YMMV on that approach as I also know villains that are more relatable tend to be more popular nowadays.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#2289: Jun 11th 2021 at 2:39:01 PM

Even by that metric I'd call him a failure; those types of villains don't need to be complex but they should at least be fun to watch. Muzan never was; I didn't get pumped or really want them to finally beat him. I couldn't get invested in the struggle against him at all because I just felt nothing but antipathy for him.

I've said before I hated him like the story wanted, but thinking about it, the story didn't even muster hate from me.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 11th 2021 at 5:07:40 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#2290: Jun 11th 2021 at 3:03:12 PM

Classic villains have a charisma to them or a larger than life personality to go with their pettiness. Muzan very much lacks that and his subdued attitude does little to show how his ego makes him try to be larger than life.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jun 11th 2021 at 3:04:28 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#2291: Jun 11th 2021 at 3:31:14 PM

Classic villains have a charisma to them or a larger than life personality to go with their pettiness.

See The Master, Davros, Dio Brando or Freeza for examples.

Edited by miraculous on Jun 11th 2021 at 3:32:00 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#2293: Jun 11th 2021 at 3:38:07 PM

Doma is a lovable scamp. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BattleRaizer from Realm of Khorne Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#2294: Jun 11th 2021 at 7:44:50 PM

Like I said, scary and lovable villain aren't the only way to write a villain, they just the most popular ways. It's depend on what kind of story you want to tell. Muzan is a manchild who believe himself as God and completely blind to his shortcomings. I enjoy Muzan slow break down during his fight, where his attempt to be look at a superior being keep failing, where his shortcomings on full display, where everything he did comeback to haunt him. He's a hateable villain and it's sasticfy to see how he got his comeuppance. In fact I would say he one of the better final villain on Jump.

Edited by BattleRaizer on Jun 11th 2021 at 9:49:17 PM

E.T technically is a Isekai movie
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#2295: Jun 11th 2021 at 8:49:58 PM

Okay, good for you. No one is telling you how to feel, they're expressing their own opinions, that don't happen to coincide with yours.

This is come up before, but arguing against things people didn't actually say is not good form. No one said anything about villains being "lovable".

Edited by LSBK on Jun 11th 2021 at 10:51:00 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#2296: Jun 11th 2021 at 9:16:04 PM

[up]x5 Hell at the moment I posted that I was thinking of older Disney villains from Scar or Ursula. Even Maleficents got it down and she’s very subdued otherwise.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#2297: Jun 11th 2021 at 9:30:00 PM

I still think his decision to kill off the lower moons was a mistake. Granted I only know what I've seen in the anime and Mugen Train, so maybe there's more context to it, but it seems to me like, even if the Lower Moons were too weak to threaten the Hashira, they still served a pretty good purpose, both tactically and as a motivator.

Tactically, they're still far stronger than the vast majority of Demon Slayers, so they basically demand the attention of a Hashira, even if they can't kill him/her themselves. That's still useful. You can still use that to divide up the Corps' forces or lure them into traps.

And as to the other point: Say I'm a newly minted demon. What motive do I have to try and become REALLY strong? If the only high ranking demons are the upper moons, and the upper moons are so OP that they've never been replaced, then what's the point in even trying? The Lower Moons might not have been as prestigious, but they were competitive. You could lose your place if you became too weak, and there's always a fresh pool of strong demons ready to take your place if you get killed. It's a theoretically attainable goal the way the ranks of the Upper Moons just aren't for the average demon. And I think having a goal you can at least try to work towards, is important in encouraging the general rabble of demonkind to get stronger.

Or maybe I'm talking out my ass. Or maybe the point of that scene was to demonstrate how much of a dumbass Muzan is. I don't know.

Edited by GNinja on Jun 11th 2021 at 4:33:41 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Envyus Since: Jun, 2011
#2298: Jun 11th 2021 at 9:33:51 PM

Muzan has a bad temper and makes mistakes is a thing.

TrueShadow1 Since: Dec, 2012
#2299: Jun 12th 2021 at 3:30:46 AM

I think demonification in general has an automatic brainwashing to "serve Lord Muzan" as part of the package. Many demons don't even seem to be aware why they're doing the things they're doing. Their only goal seem to be "get stronger and please Muzan".

FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#2300: Jun 12th 2021 at 5:19:06 AM

It honestly feels like Muzan has a little bit of personality from each of the Upper Moons, but none of these scraps form a coherent whole. He's subdued like Kokushibo, but not quite; is incapable of understanding why others would hate him like Doma, but not quite; has Gyokko's narcisstic nature, but not quite, etc.

It's fine to have a Big Bad who's a self-serving coward, but they still need to have something interesting about them. About the only thing interesting about Muzan is his smugness, but that flies out the window the moment he's mildly inconvenienced, which brings me to another point:

I enjoy Muzan slow break down during his fight, where his attempt to be look at a superior being keep failing, where his shortcomings on full display, where everything he did comeback to haunt him.

Except he doesn't slowly break down; he alternates between insufferable smugness and destructive tantrums all the time. There's no in-between. Even in the last two arcs when he keeps getting his shit pushed in, he still does that, at least until the point where he's just lashing out. Even once he's dead and only a smidgeon of memory left in Demon!Tanjiro, he still does it.

[up][up][up] Muzan specifically doesn't want demons working together because that might threaten his rule. And, apparently, his patience with the Lower Moons was already running out and Rui's death was the last straw.

And honestly, considering how thoroughly ineffective the Demon Corps are outside of the Pillars and the main five (who, granted, more than make up for it), you'd be forgiven for thinking that Muzan straight-up doesn't think much of them to bother with tactics.


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