She-Ra and the Princesses of Power

A couple of interesting retweets by Noelle today...

First is an unused storyboard scene from "Princess Prom". It's a Zip Me Up scene with Scorpia and Catra.

The second one isn't She-Ra related, but it maybe what she's working on next. It's Noelle giving a presentation in front of a monitor with the Lumberjanes on it.

It’s easy to see why they said no to that scene.

As for a Lumberjanes series, while I have no idea who would say yes (it looks like a pitch) you have to keep busy somehow, especially with Mattel going in a radically different direction with MOTU (to the point I will be completely unsurprised if a different version of She-Ra shows up in Revelation). Considering Netflix is airing stuff like Hilda, it seems like a natural fit.

I read the first 5-6 volumes of Lumberjanes at a library a couple of years ago.

It's a fun series, so hopefully it gets the go ahead for an adaption.

RE: Noelle pitching a Lumberjanes cartoon:

I heard about this the other day but yes yes yes yes, a thousand times yes!

Weird thought I had: I somehow thought that since Disney inherited Fox's minority stake over Boom Studios (who publishes Lumberjanes) and Noelle and her wife Molly have worked with them ^note (Noelle wrote "The Bot" in Wander Over Yonder and the Neverrest episode of DuckTales as some examples while Molly writes for The Owl House), there'd be some incentive to consider Boom stories for Disney+ or something, but I was shortly told that's not really the case.

I mean it definitely feels like it would fit with Dream Works' current suite of animation.

Fantastic villain in general, and one of the highlights for how to do her type of character well. I can take or leave her staying one in the final season.

1. I realize that I’m likely going to get a lot of backlash for this, but, I still just have to say it; I admit that this show does have a lot of good representation for the homosexual and LGBT community and all, as well as some representation for the transgender company to go along with. And, now that I have begun to grow a lot less unsettled by all of that (I mean I don’t think that I have ever really been onboard with any movements against any of them, I just felt somewhat uncomfortable about them) I can honestly say that that is not the real problem that I have with She-Ra. No, my problem is that I just can’t help but notice just how few “straight” relationships there are in this show. I mean I’m not saying that they should be frequent than the same-sex relationships, but, wouldn’t be more, for lack of a better word, “appropriate” if there was an equal representation between the two orientations? Like, while the same-sex type of relationships are still quite common to come across every now and then, a male and female relationship can be just as easy take notice of, if that makes sense

2. I realize that a lot fans out there feel sorry for Catra and hope that she’ll soon be on the path of true redemption. But I honestly have practically no sympathy at all for her and doubt she’ll ever truly become a good person. I mean, from what I have seen in this show so far; she has had numerous opportunities to leave the Horde behind and live a life without their evil sphere of influence, and yet she has turned them all down every single time, even though it has been implied that there was very little reason for her to want to stay. And frankly, I don’t really think that I can believe that a person who is willing to allow an entire planet’s population be wiped out just for the sake of a petty sense of jealousy can ever truly be redeemed.

3. And while we are still on the very subject of Catra, does anybody else feel like they made her a bit too competent? I mean, through dialogue and the various character interactions, it has been established that she has always felt significantly inferior to Adora, and yet she has been shown to be able to handle herself against Adora in battle (even when she is in the form of the most powerful being on Etheria), she has been shown to be able to plan clever and complex strategies, she has been shown to be able to handle people that Adora could not (I.e. those thugs from the Crimson Waste) and she has even been shown to be able to deal with both Hordak and Shadow Weaver, who were supposed to be the toughest big bads that the Horde had to offer from their ranks. And yet Adora has been shown to barely be able to handle her powers as She-Ra, has been shown to not be so good at acting and at times even dealing with other people, and has rarely if ever shown what makes her the cut above the rest that she is constantly considered to be. What gives, when are we going to see the skills that made Adora a prime qualified candidate to become an army field leader?

4. I’ve also got to say that I think that I’m starting to grow a little bit tired of the way that villains are frequently portrayed in these kinds of shows. By which I mean that they make it so that they are so sympathetic of characters that you can barely even call them villains at all. I mean in his last two incarnations, Hordak was portrayed as a blood-thirsty, power-hungry tyrant who had no real problems with even assaulting his own men, let alone innocent civilians. His only primary objective was to obtain power and control through any means necessary, and in his 2002 incarnation it was implied that he was doing so just because he could. And then there was Skeletor, who, through no uncertain terms, lived up very much to his title of “Overlord of Evil”, with the only exception that I can think of being in an 80’s Christmas special. But nowadays, the antagonist of a story can never be so much as an evil villain, but rather a person with some serious issues and an unhealthy way of handling them. Why, heck, as of this point within the show; exactly two of the pure evil villains from the original She-Ra cartoon (three if you count Entrapta) have become associated with the heroes, which, somehow does not feel right in some way.

5. I just have to say; sooner or later, this show is going to have bring up the topics of Adam, He-Man, Eternia, King Randor and Queen Marlena, and castle Grayskull. I mean, they have already referenced two of those things by name, so far, so they’ll have to explain their significance at some point. Or are they just going leave the topics of; who or what Eternia is, where Adora comes from, who Adora’s family is, and what significance the word “Grayskull” has to both the First Ones and Etheria, up in the air as completely ambiguous plot points?

6. I have asked it before and I’ll ask it again; what is the real (in-universe) difference between the two sister planets Eternia and Etheria? I mean, what makes one different from the other? What does one world have that the other does not?

Edited by srebak on Feb 29th 2020 at 12:05:49 PM

1. In a vacuum sure, but given the relative lack of queer/LGBT+ relationships across media one or two shows where representation is flipped on its head doesn't hurt.

2. Has been argued quite a lot, although maybe not so much in this thread. I'm not that fussed about it honestly. But maybe that's a personal thing. There has been other redemption arcs in shows where I've had less patience for smaller sins than Catra.

3. Maybe in season 1? A few people I knew thought Catra would prove to be much more competent than she turned out to be. I can't place any specific examples, but I know she messed up quite a few things in Season 4 especially.

4. I can see that reasoning. Honestly though, its not omnipresent so it doesn't really bother me.

5. Everything so far points to maybe a couple of other minor cameos in the last season, but no real elaboration.

6. I dunno, this is the only show in the franchise I've seen.

1) More or less as said, above.

And more generally, I see no reason that any one show should have a specific ratio of straight to queer representation. Just as I'd expect variation between random selections from a population, I might expect variation between different sets of characters.

2) I recall this being brought up previously in this thread, I believe. Ultimately, I think that how one feels on the matter is going to depend heavily on one's beliefs and perceptions.

For myself, I don't hold Catra to be beyond redemption (indeed, I believe that it's not for me to judge on the matter at all). I'd be happy to see her have a "redemption arc".

(Although I wouldn't say that it's because I feel sorry for her, as such, although I do feel some sympathy for her—while still opposing many of her actions.)

3) That's an interesting thought.

I didn't feel so myself when watching, and I do think that at least some of that capacity comes from her feeling that she has little to lose, as well as her native intelligence.

It may also be worth noting that Adora was singled out as being special from infancy; it may be less that she tested better than Catra than that she was pre-selected to rise to Force-Captaincy.

In terms of sheer power levels, I seem to recall that She-Ra has been shown to be far above Catra. It's in cunning and skill that Catra tends to prevail, where Adora is a fairly straightforward "hit things" combatant.

Furthermore, before the most recent season, Adora didn't really want to hurt Catra, and so likely held back somewhat. See how much more dangerous Adora become when infected by that First One virus.

4) Each to their own! I like these villains—but I won't gainsay someone wanting old-fashioned vile villains. (And those can be fun, after all.)

5) I wonder whether they're allowed to have more than minor references. :/

(I'd love to see some more and meatier connections between this She-Ra and Eternia!

... Which does bring my mind back to that bit of fan-fic that I've been wanting to get around to writing...)

6) I have little idea, I'm afraid, and so will leave that for others!

It’s hard to fault a production for trying to appeal to an underserved minority, but it sort of results in the same issue that any minority focused product results in. Namely, the idea that it’s only for said minority and no one else. The late Dwayne McDuffie had numerous stories about dealing with this when he was making Milestone Comics and later Static Shock.

Noelle is a lesbian. She believes representation of the LBGTQ+ community is important. That’s not bad in and of itself, nor should it viewed as such, BUT it creates a view that the show is only for that minority. There’s nothing here for legacy fans of the property or people outside that minority to enjoy. And as such it has made Mattel reluctant to support the property and now that the show is wrapping up, eager to pretend it never happened.

I’ve ranted about the villains thing (not an issue exclusive to this show in the least), so let me just say I agree with you.

As for He-Man, Skeletor, and the rest of the gang, they’re not going to be mentioned for the reasons that were mentioned with the LBGTQ+ representation and it’s Catch-22 of sorts. Mattel is preparing not one, but two He-Man shows, a sequel to the old cartoon, and a full on reboot with Noelle not being allowed near either of them. So they probably won’t mention SPOP again (I’ve theorized Revelation may have its own Hotter and Sexier version of the character completely divorced from this version). I’ll be very surprised if they mention He-Man.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 29th 2020 at 8:19:03 AM

This is demonstrably false.

Also you've been pushing this weird conspiracy about power struggles within the company as to why He-Man isn't showing up ever since the show started, when the obvious answer is that they want She-Ra's story and lore to stand on its own.

Well of course it’s false. Mc Duffie spent his entire career fighting those stereotypes, that a black character could be relatable to white readers, that gay characters could be defined by things besides their sexuality. I’m pointing out what corporate tends to think.

As for Mattel, they’ve been pushing new MOTU properties fierce for the next few years. It’s less conspiracy and more corporate red tape. Conspiracy implies secret machinations or the like. They’ve been pretty adamant they want their own version of these characters to be a big deal and have mostly ignored SPOP.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 29th 2020 at 2:55:58 PM

Gotcha, misread what you said.

Also I thought Noelle was gay, not bisexual?

Noelle is a lesbian. She's said so many times.

And whose fault is that a property gets viewed as "only for a minority"? Does that mean stories should never be made for anybody but white straight cis male audiences just to keep chasing their money?

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 29th 2020 at 5:11:50 AM

Plus I think that exposure to minority's in fictional works (especially stuff like this where a lot of kids will watch) aids in the development of empathy.

I'm not sure if that's totally true, I'm sure they've done some research at some point but I haven't looked into it.

I updated the post to reflect that.

As for the other question, it’s decades of presentation. That stories without minority characters can just be stories, but stories with them must speak to some moral or lesson. That it’s not enough to just have a story that just happens to have Latinos or happens to have gay people. The solution is to have stories that just feature those characters as normal, and that’s how Noelle has been treating this.

This is what happens when creators who want to include run into executives who believe money cannot be made doing so.

I don't have the stats on hand, but yes. Any form of diversity in fiction leads to more empathy in real life. The reverse is also true; I remember a study about the kinds of works Neo-Nazis consume, and it was... eye-opening.

Edited by Discar on Feb 29th 2020 at 6:27:12 AM

I mean, we've seen one utterly monstrous villain, Horde Prime, and one who's a kind of nasty that the show is neither willing nor equipped to redeem, Shadow Weaver. The writing staff aren't going to be pretending the kids in the audience can or should fix their abusive parents.

There's queer romance, but the biggest romantic arc was Entrapta/Hordak so far. Even if you ship Catdora, it's not explicitly canon. Plus it's an enjoyable cartoon for everyone, just relax and enjoy the action. If women can enjoy shows and stories mostly about men, then straight people can enjoy stuff with a lot of queer elements.

Re Redemption arcs, what determines if a character deserves one is how well written it is. Also the character has to grow to want to be/be a better person.

There's also the themes and audience of the show itself, though. Abusive parents are less likely to be redeemed in kids' shows because 'yes, you can fix your abusive mom/dad' is a very dangerous message to send.

Sonic (the drive-in restaurant, not the hedgehog) will be getting She-Ra toys starting March 2. Looks like She-Ra, gold She-Ra, Hordak, black Hordak, an inflatable sword, and Swift Wind and Imp straw clingers. picture◊

Also, Noelle's book The Fire Never Goes Out comes out Tuesday, March 3.

I like how the top reply is Sonic - the hedgehog, not the restaurant this time - playing with the She-Ra toys.

I tried getting one at C 2 E 2 and meet Noelle, but they ran out and cut off the line. I wasn't able to return the next day.

I've been meaning to try out Sonic. I guess this is finally the time.

Dammit, I wish I could go to the USA to get myself a Hordak toy :'(

No luck at my local Sonic, they're still giving out Beyblade Burst toys.

Edit: Anyway, Sonic has a page up promoting the toys.

Edited by alanh on Mar 2nd 2020 at 6:11:29 AM