One Winged Egret
The movie examined the notion that the hero is always justified in whatever reckless plan they have just because they're a hero, not the idea that they can make a difference. This was simply part of its "accept that you can make mistakes" theme that wasn't indecisive in the slightest.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:13:12 AM by Clarste
The Head of the Hydra
Let it be the will of the Force cause that is where all her immense power comes from.
Also Obi-Wan had no way to escape from Vader so death was the only option.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Would that it were so simple.
Which makes Luke even more useless. Why even build the school if a prodigy who knew more than he ever could about being a Jedi would just show up one day?
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Destroyer of Worlds
I mean it didn't. Anakin is immortal now as a Force Ghost.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:14:05 AM by MadSkillz
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
@4650
Han and Leia's romance, the golden bikini, the Skywalker family twists, Obi-Wan and Vader's pinata duel, and Luke's force kick in Return of the Jedi.
After a while you kinda realize Star Wars is just plain dumb. Not bad dumb but cheesy sci-fi dumb with lots of hilariously bad flaws.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:13:09 AM by AdricDePsycho
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
warrior93
@Clarste
Why was that a notion that needed to be examined and were the heroes plans all that reckless because Luke mocked the idea of him going out of retirement to fight the First Order.
Why did Luke's brief reappearance sparked hope across the galaxy but not the destruction of the Starkiller Base?
Final Side note: For the people who liked this movie did ya'll like the siege warfare aspect of this movie if so why?
edited 12th Jan '18 11:15:33 AM by warrior93
Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
Yes because it looked cool.
Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
The Head of the Hydra
Wait why would the Force give so much power to Kylo & Rey in the first place?
At least Anakin was apart of a prophecy cause the Sith tipped the balance.
What reason is there to generate 2 op Force monsters?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This entire movie does look amazing after all.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:15:10 AM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
One Winged Egret
It provided sufficient excuse for the tension and a sense of urgency, although I think the time scale involved was a little implausible.
The destruction of Starkiller Base happened, like, two days ago. It will be a powerful propaganda tool, but it hasn't had time to spread yet. The final scene in TLJ is implied to take place after a timeskip, meaning that the victories won have had time to take hold in the hearts of the galaxy's people.
(Also I like how someone else being potentially better at something than you means that you are therefore useless, no matter what you accomplish independently, or how much it's demonstrated that you are currently far more capable than said someone.)
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
warrior93
I couldn't buy into the siege warfare mainly because of lack of time skip, it being most of the whole movie, them being in one location, and it being in SPACE!!!!
If time has passed then the Star killer blowing up would be a bigger deal that some dude who vanished years ago briefly reappearing.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:19:36 AM by warrior93
Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
Funny but not helpful
You're making some major assumptions.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
No, that was the movie making those assumptions.
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Why is the lack of a time skip a problem, again? As it relates to the siege warfare bit, that is?
As for the Starkiller Base, that could easily be a source of inspiration as well - maybe those kids at the end were talking about that story earlier, and were simply telling the story of Luke at the time.
Actually, the lack of a time skip is arguably necessary if you want to keep the idea that the Resistance is on their own here - if more time had passed, then they would have had time to rally and recruit more people to their cause. It's likely a very confused time in the galaxy right now - the Republic has been destroyed, and people are scared and not sure what to believe.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:26:44 AM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!
warrior93
Short version: Causes tonal clashes with the ending of Force Awakens
Middle version: The Starkiller Base deconstruction should've caused the First Order to slow down instead of marching onward like nothing had happen. Basically it's like watching a Lord of Rings movie where you spend two hours watching the heroes worrying about Orcs after they just destroyed the one ring of power.
Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
Not according to the kids in the final scene. Did you miss all of that stuff he did during his brief reappearance?
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Would that it were so simple.
He did nothing — Kylo and that ground force was untouched. So his nephew was embarrassed, he inflict zero losses in manpower or materiel on the FO.
And if Kylo gets overthrown because he was unmanned, I honestly couldn't care less. Hux and countless Imperials are all there and could lead the war machine.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Funny but not helpful
Lets look at the opening text crawl and what other things in the movie hint at whats going on elsewhere.
"The FIRST ORDER reigns. Having decimated the peaceful Republic, Supreme Leader Snoke now deploys his merciless legions to seize military control of the galaxy.
"Only General Leia Organa’s band of RESISTANCE fighters stand against the rising tyranny, certain that Jedi Master Luke Skywalker will return and restore a spark of hope to the fight.
"But the Resistance has been exposed. As the First Order speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape...."
So in the background, the First Order fleets and legions and navvies and such deploy to seize military control of the galaxy.
Its a surprise attack right after a decapitation strike took out the Republic's leadership and a fairly sizeable fleet.
We can make assumptions about how its going but its probably at least going.
Also near the end, nobody responds to Leia's call for aid. Maybe they're busy. Maybe they think its a trap. Maybe they're lazy. We can make assumptions there.
And we can take all of the assumptions and make the assumption that the First Order has gotten a basically uncontested stranglehold over the entire galaxy. But that's an assumption.
I bet the rumors cross pollinate and now there's a story that asserts that it was totally Luke who blew up Starkiller Base.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:29:05 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
You're right, he didn't kill anybody, therefore he accomplished nothing. Have you read a single word I've written?
edited 12th Jan '18 11:29:45 AM by RBluefish
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
x6 Not really, Starkiller base only had 2 shots and they were already evacuating and setting up before the second shot was to fire. Destroying Starkiller base was really pretty pointless in the grand scheme of the First Order's plan.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:30:04 AM by Memers
Would that it were so simple.
"You're right, he didn't kill anybody, therefore he accomplished nothing."
Blood and iron wins wars. It wasn't Luke redeeming Vader, but the Alliance fleet blowing up the Death Star II that doomed the Empire.
You're right, though. He gave his former apprentice a dope slap and then died while leaving the Galaxy for the First Order to rape and pillage at their leisure. So inspirational!
edited 12th Jan '18 11:32:43 AM by CrimsonZephyr
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Funny but not helpful
Supposedly Starkiller is capable of moving but. It doesn't seem to have any engines mentioned?
It seems more like it was the death of the Emperor since the Empire had lost Death Stars before.
edited 12th Jan '18 11:32:56 AM by Bocaj
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
The Head of the Hydra
Which means that Rose is wrong.
Because destroying what you hate is how you win wars. 
I mean I can imagine it has some way of moving. How did the Death Star move?
edited 12th Jan '18 11:33:03 AM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
And where was that "blood and iron" on Crait? Hiding in the Outer Rim, because they thought the First Order was unstoppable and that all hope was lost.
If only a legendary hero had returned to perform an impossible feat of defiance and rekindle the spark of hope in the galaxy...
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
And considering what we've already seen she's capable of, she might not even need much teaching at all.
"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."