X-Men: Dark Phoenix

She also didn't have stupid white face make up so that helps.

Claremont wasn’t the one that made the retcon and as further as I know he didn’t like it.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Aug 27th 2019 at 11:22:51 AM

My point is you can’t say it’s an in-name-only adaptation just because it ignored retcons made years after the original story(against the writer’s will).

Now that is supremely silly.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Aug 29th 2019 at 3:05:33 PM

Speaking of that.

Also says that Jean wasn’t meant to be a villain, which someone in this thread had doubted.

1. You can, actually. Comic books are unique in that the story isn't made by one author, but by multiple ones and the retcon has affected decades of stories in the X-Men books. Saying "But Claremont was against it!" is a silly argument.
2. I also never said it was an "in-name-only" adaptation. It's a poor adaptation and the actual Phoenix Force is in-name-only (except for the fact that they never goddamn name it), but the story itself follows similar beats to the comic. Which is why it's so sad that it's a bad movie.
3. And yes, the Phoenix Force in the film is nothing at all like the Phoenix Force in the comics. Not even from the beginning. Hell, in the comics, Jean doesn't even lose control until Mastermind manipulates her; prior to that, she has such complete control, she recreates the goddamn universe with her powers. Saying that the movie's Phoenix Force (or whatever it's called) is anything at all like the comic's is just blatant lying.

Just because they wanted to do something doesn't mean they succeeded. The entire film is called Dark Phoenix, the main thrust of the movie is supposed to be an adaptation of the Dark Phoenix Saga where Dark Phoenix was the villain, but nooooo, Jean isn't supposed to be the villain in this! Perhaps, if you don't want to make her the villain, don't adapt one of the most famous X-Men storylines where she's the villain.

"But they didn't adapt that storyline!" The movie is called Dark Phoenix. "But it's not an adaptation of the Dark Phoenix Saga!" They very clearly wanted it to be. It's called Dark Phoenix. "But it's nothing like the Dark Phoenix Saga!" That's my point. They wanted to have their cake and eat it, too. They wanted to make an adaptation, but not actually adapt it.

• "We want Jean to go evil, but, you know, not too evil. In fact, she shouldn't be evil at all."
• "Okay, but then why are the X-Men after her?"
• "Uh, maybe she accidentally killed, like, Mystique. That would piss them off."
• "But didn't Magneto kill, like, thousands of people in X-Men: Apocalypse? And they let him live."
• "No, but, like, everyone loved Mystique."
• "Okay, but what about the comics, where the Dark Phoenix hungers? Surely, we can use her evil superpowered side, like they did in the comics?"
• "Fuck that shit, we tried that with X-Men 3 and you see where that turned out."
• "So Jean is just...fine?"
• "Yeah. It's all a mix-up and everything is cleared up by the end."
• "So...how does it end?"
• "Oh, right. Jean...explodes. Fighting aliens."
• "...how much cocaine have you had, exactly?"

Edited by alliterator on Aug 30th 2019 at 6:44:18 AM

My original post wasn’t a response to you.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Aug 30th 2019 at 1:31:08 PM

I think the biggest mistake is Jean and Scott. They were there from the beginning in the books, the relationship felt earned with years of development. We only had ONE movie for the Fox paring and all that amounts to is don't touch her or I will Fox you Magneto.

Their relationship is not at the center of the story, unfortunately. It was in the pre-reshoot version though.

The original ending of Dark Phoenix:

I like that it's more poignant, more bittersweet, and doesn't have the obvious "Oh look she's not really dead" bit.

Also, it removes the stupid renaming of the school.

So apparently, Quentin Quire had a cameo in the film. I understand the want to put in various cameos, but...what exactly was the point of this one? He just walks past the camera and the only way you would know it was Quire would be if you were a hardcore X-Men fan and recognized his haircut.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 3rd 2019 at 9:08:15 AM

I noticed that cameo since the first (and only) seeing of the movie. It was the only time I had any sort of emotion through the movie, though I don't think the intention of the director was to give me a flight or fight response.

(I just really hate Quentin.)

I sat down and saw the film last night, and to be frank, it was boring. It had the same problem Suicide Squad did (and was probably even worse in the cut where Jessica Chastain was apparently some sort of manifestation of Jean’s darker desires) namely that for the story to work, everyone has to be a bit of a moron. And they all act dumb (Xavier, Magneto, the government) because it’s the quickest way to get from Point A to Point B.

I honestly don’t expect to remember much of the film by tomorrow. Actors that are trying are underused (Storm once again gets nothing to do besides shoot a few lightning bolts. Can’t she have at least one monologue about the Arctic winds or something) and everyone else is mailing it in because they know the film was going to be an afterthought. It happens, it ends, and all I can really do as an audience member is shrug my shoulders. Even some of the bigger misfires in film left me with something, a cool scene, an interesting idea, a memorable bit of dialog. This felt paint by the numbers, and just dull. And for a film about a cosmic force that could change the seat power in the universe, that shouldn’t be the case.

Where did you hear this? Because that never happened.

They gave Xavier a pretty decent reason to why he repressed her trauma. He said that a psychic's mind is fragile and it takes the slightest tap to send it in the wrong direction.

They explored that concept in Days of Future Past with Xavier himself. His powers went out of control due to the emotional pain he was going through and that is what was happening to Jean throughout the movie.

This movie shot before months before Fox had announced that were selling the studio and they didn't go straight to Disney there was a bidding war between companies like Comcast and Sony. The original ending of the movie was posted on this page and its a cliff hanger, with an a pretty good performance from James. So they thought they had more movies.

Also, look at the video I posted above about how Sophie prepared for the role. Sophie poured her heart and soul into that role. You can say you didn't like the performances but they were not mailing it in.

It wasn't really about it though. It was more about the consequence of avoiding psychological trauma. Months back they said they wanted it to be a psychological thriller. The cosmic stuff was meant to be in the background.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Sep 7th 2019 at 12:53:30 PM

Didn't know Sony was bidding. Imagine if they won Fox...

Spider-Man and X-Men crossover.

James Mc Voy and Jennifer Lawrence were both beyond done with the films and you could tell by their performances. Sophie Turner’s acting alone was not enough to save the material she had (which is the second time this year she was shown acting as best she could with subpar material), but the rest of the cast simply weren’t helping.

As for the “personal story” thing, why then, try to adapt this grand cosmic adventure where the Phoenix saves the universe? I get Fox as a studio always had an aversion to fully embracing the insanity of the comics, but there are plenty of stories you could go with that would allow for a more personal, less comic book style romp. It’s like trying to adapt Inferno and focusing on Scott’s commitment issues. There are better stories and you don’t have to tiptoe around the things the audience would rather watch.

As for Xavier, all he had to do was tell Jean “your dad wanted me to take care of you because he didn’t know how. He was confused and scared and I wasn’t going to let you be abandoned.” That’s all he had to say. It’s Informed Wrongness.

The film was just a bore to me. If you liked it, great, more power to you. It wasn’t egregiously offensive, but to me, it was just boring.

Edited by Beatman1 on Sep 8th 2019 at 12:11:11 PM

Nah, James Mcavoy has always expressed enthusiasm in his returning to the role in interviews unlike Jlaw. I don’t think his performance was bad but to each his own.

Jean didn’t save the universe in Dark Phoenix. I think you’re confusing that with the Phoenix Saga, which came out four years prior to that story. But yes, they did downplay the cosmic scale but that’s because they didn’t want to make Jean a villain again and have her genocide a whole planet.

As for Xavier, the main issue wasn’t that her dad abandoned her but the fact that she was the cause of the car accident that killed her mother. That was a traumatic experience for her and Xavier tried to wipe that from her mind. Her dad not wanting to deal with her was just the tip of the iceberg.

Not saying that you have like it. Just that the actors(except Jlaw) wanted to be there and they didn’t know Fox was going to sell the studio.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Sep 9th 2019 at 5:56:50 AM

McAvoy is definitely doing everything he can, among the cast Jennifer Lawrence has been the one phoning it in. The issue is mostly that ever since First Class the focus has been on Xavier, Magneto, Beast and Mystique. In Apocalypse they bring in the classic team of Cyclops, Jean and Storm but they are mostly supporting characters. For Dark Phoenix to work the movie needed to affirm Scott and Jean as the heart of the movie, but it instead defaults to the First Class characters because of star power, and Magneto, Beast and Mystique just do not have the emotional connection to Jean to make it work. On top of that the movie just doesn't do anything new with the mutant rights drama, reiterating "its a gift not a curse" and fear of registration/imprisonment.

To be fair, Xavier did have a huge role in both the Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga. In Dark Phoenix, Jean called out Xavier saying that he was the cause of her becoming Phoenix because he had unleashed her power. In this movie it’s mentioned that Jean was able to survive the cosmic force because of how powerful she is, which was the result of Xavier not surpassing her psychic powers in the new timeline after Wolverine showed him the events of X3 and how that would go.

Xavier was also the one to stop the Dark Phoenix which kinda happens in this film too. But Jean still has 14 minutes more minutes of screen time, which clocks at 35 minutes. That’s higher than Wolverine ever got in each of the X-Men films that weren’t his solos.

As for Mystique and Magneto, they are not in the movie much and not much is done with them either. Raven has a total of 10 minutes of screen time and Eric has a total of 13 minutes. The only thing done with Mystique is her complaining about Xavier for two scenes so that Jean can become paranoid of him later on and then dying halfway through the movie so her death can serve as a placeholder for the D’Bari genocide. Magneto doesn’t show up until over halfway through the movie and his role is to act as a placeholder for Lilandra, wanting Jean dead for the crime she committed and leading group of people against the X-Men in a fight for her life.

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Sep 9th 2019 at 11:39:17 AM

Found these on reddit. Dat avatar tho...

Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Sep 16th 2019 at 8:18:03 AM

The Dark Phoenix Honest Trailer.

Well that's it. Everything's been done, the critical reviews, the box-office bombing, the Pitch Meeting by Screen Rant, the scathing dissection videos, & now finally the Honest Trailer.

Dark Phoenix is as dead as dead can be forevermore.

But it never got a How It Should've Ended.

Oh right.

Lets exhume the corpse one more time.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 18th 2019 at 12:17:11 PM