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Edited by alliterator on Aug 22nd 2019 at 9:03:33 AM
That was an intentional subtext according to the cast and crew.
No, they didn't. Sophie Turner said she researched schizophrenia when researching the role, but that was about how she should portray the character, not about the subtext of the movie itself. Especially since it makes so very little sense — the "mental illness" in this case is an outside force that changes her and not something that she's been living with.
If you like the film, that's fine. If you see yourself within the film, that's fine. But saying there is subtext about "mental illness" is just wrong. For one thing — which mental illness? Autism? BPD? There is hundreds of different "mental illnesses" and the movie does little to say which one Jean represents — because, really, the only thing she represents is the Hollywood Version of Schizophrenia, the "I Hear Voices" version, the version that is totally lazy and even cruel, considering it causes her to kill someone. It's basically saying "Hey, mentally ill people are dangerous!" But that's not even subtext, that's just the text.
Having Dark Phoenix as a metaphor for mental illness is worse than having mutants be a metaphor for minorities.
According to this Glamour article they did. Apparently, that is what Simon Kinberg meant by grounding the movie in reality that he kept going on and on about. They wanted to parallel a real world problem.
She has a few of the other symptoms of schizophrenia. Jean had became paranoid, becoming suspicious of Xavier thinking that he used her for her powers and thought that he was out to kill her. She isolated herself from her friends and family. And of course, the impulsive aggression she shows throughout.
Which was a totally accident(said so yourself). Jean wanted her to get away from but didn’t know she would hit that wooden spike.
Edited by ManOfSin on Aug 22nd 2019 at 1:40:37 PM
It feels like this thread has effectively become Man Of Sin trying to rehabilitate the film reaching farther than Thomas Hearns and Alliterator shooting him down. Rinse and repeat. Quite tiresome, honestly.
This isn't even talking about how the "illness" is, again, an outside force and for most of the film, Jean is not in control of it and only takes control at the end when Xavier helps her.
What points did he shot down exactly? He actually misread what my point at first. No offense to Alliterator but he didn’t address a couple of my counters.
And please, try to be civil.
Anyway, that proves it was intentional.
Not according to a couple of mental health doctors.
I did some research of on the subject a few days ago and those are real world symptoms.
Revel? It’s played up for drama. They even said they made this movie to be a drama.
Edited by ManOfSin on Aug 22nd 2019 at 2:18:21 PM
Watch this, I can see into the future. The next following posts will consist of endless arguing, reposting ad nauseam, repeating the same things, just stubborn opinions bouncing off each other for eternity.
I am a psychic.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Aug 22nd 2019 at 11:29:04 AM
You know, when I put it all like that, it really does seem like Jean dies in this film, because whatever is left at the end isn't Jean.
But hey, let me quote the article itself:
These doctors literally state that the ending of the film is a bad ending.
Edited by alliterator on Aug 22nd 2019 at 11:30:52 AM
It is kind of a shame to see this franchise that helped superhero movies get back on the map go so awry at the points when it did, and that one of those points ended up being the swan song for these movies bites hard. At least I have Logan and the Deadpools to come back to.
Well, like I said in my post those are symptoms of schizophrenia which is what they did research on. Schizophrenia has such a wide variety of symptoms that is often confused with other mental health issues(such as bipolar disorder). That would explain why people with mental health issues other than schizophrenia found Jean’s struggle relatable.
Well they did do the work according to that article. Reading books on the subject matter and watched documentaries on people’s who experience the condition.
That reminds me of some people interpreting the race and queer metaphor as a bad thing because people actually have a reason to fear mutants. Which I don’t agree with either, but whatever. At least you acknowledge the subtext.
Don’t see how Jean becoming a god is a bad thing.
Dr. Andrea Letamendi definitely saw that movie. Look her up, she is into comic books. She went on Nerdist and Den of Geeks talking about it.
These doctors literally state that the ending of the film is a bad ending.
They literally said it depends on who you interpret the ending and she didn’t really “sacrifice” herself so it’s not really a problem.
I’m going to have to agree to disagree with you on this point.
Edited by ManOfSin on Aug 23rd 2019 at 7:09:24 AM
Subtext doesn't have to be intentional, Death of the Author and all that. That's especially the case for collaborative projects like movies, as even if you do limit the subtext to what was intended, you have to ask "intended by whom?"
I forgot to address this. Jean’s situation was caused by her psychic mind being fragile aka genetics, the childhood trauma she suffered, and a cosmic force altering her body. It was a combination of factors. Like I said earlier, all the force did was enhance her powers, it didn’t really alter her way of thinking.
The exact cause of schizophrenia isn’t known. But like with Jean’s condition it is believed to be a combination of genetics, environment such as childhood trauma, and altered brain chemistry and structure (outside forces).
Edited by ManOfSin on Aug 23rd 2019 at 6:38:53 AM
Really? Because he didn’t really disagree with him on people misunderstanding the ending thinking Jean was dead and gone. Speaking of which.
Xavier actually corrected Scott and said “she’s free”. I’ve seen some people straight up say they simply miss that shot of the firebird.
People were just not being that attentive it seems.
Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Aug 23rd 2019 at 8:40:06 AM
Look, there are dozens of symptoms of schizophrenia, but the ones the chose to portray in the movie are literally the ones that Hollywood always portrays in order to make mentally ill people seem scary and monstrous. Saying, "But they researched schizophrenia!" just makes what they did worse, because then they knew better and did it anyway.
All your posts are just trying to make excuses for a mediocre film. Hell, Jean is supposed to be the main character, but the attention of the film is often on anyone but her and gives other characters weird characterizations that don't make sense:
Edited by alliterator on Aug 23rd 2019 at 6:54:10 AM
Or maybe it is because Jean’s out of control telepathy causes her to hear voices in her head and thus they chose the metaphor to be schizophrenia.
I mean Jean wasn’t actually imagining those voices, those were the thoughts of others. An idea they played with in Days of Future Past with Xavier, but that didn’t have the schizophrenia subtext.
According to Glamour article both Sophie Turner and Simon Kinberg had sent each other documents back and forth. So Sophie was not the only one that did research.
Arguably, but then Claremont created Rachel who can handled the same godlike power. But that is a bit off track.
Pretty sure she thinks Jean had “sacrificed” herself in a different matter.
It torn down psychic blocks that held back memories and trauma. It didn’t directly affect her behavior.
A plot summary on Wikipedia is not exactly something you should use to try to prove a point. Not to mention it is wrong.
Well none of my points really fit the definition of excuse but whatever.
As for the rest of your post: you have problems with it? Okay, but that is not related to my point. It seems that you mistakenly think I have a problem with all criticisms, which isn’t true.
Edited by ManOfSin on Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:15:33 AM
Not really. He is alluding to the fact that she is still out there as shown in the final shot.
The only other character that got significant screentime was Xavier. Magneto doesn’t show up until over halfway through the movie.
But of course other characters got attention, the X-Men movies are ensembles.
Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Aug 23rd 2019 at 3:24:17 PM
This discussion just reminded me of an interview with Sophie I read a couple months back. She explicitly said there are mental health undertones/subtext in the movie.
Edited by DevilMayhem666 on Aug 23rd 2019 at 10:58:14 AM
Well that’s that.
No, it isn't. Because while they might have wanted to have mental undertones to it, the actual thing demonizes mental illness so much, it just makes it worse. They might have done research, but they didn't use any of that research to make it more realistic or similar to, you know, reality. A reality where mentally ill people are more like to get hurt or killed, rather than be the killer.
Dark Phoenix thinks it's making a point about something, but anything it's trying to do just collapses under the weight of its baggage and it's own inability to a story, leaving a movie that's a muddled mess and that has zero point to it.
Edited by alliterator on Aug 24th 2019 at 1:43:24 AM
Again the movies fucking dead, it bombed so terribly Marvel is working their collective asses off trying to fix the X-Brand after DP horribly tainted it.
So all this debate is pretty much moot in the end.
Stop making pointless posts, please.
Then stop having a pointless debate.
This is unending, its a constant back & forth of the same stuff over & over again for multiple pages.
Its just one long conversation. Nothing new is being said.
Edited by slimcoder on Aug 24th 2019 at 3:01:02 AM
I have to agree with slimcoder here. I am very annoyed at having to open this thread every time and see nothing but you three having this endless argument that goes nowhere.
This movie is done. The Fo X-Men universe is done. No one cares any more. There is nothing interesting going on in this thread any more. If you still want to argue with each other, I suggest taking it to P Ms.
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