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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

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Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
May 4th 2019 at 10:20:05 AM

Alright, platinum'd the game. Welp, that's one thing done.

Isshin last phase jsut randoamly decided to use the lightning of tomoe 8 times in a row and gave me a vitality kill rather than a posture kill.

Weird flex, but Ok, I guess.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 5th 2019 at 6:33:26 AM

I think I'm officially not having fun any more. Got my arse kicked enough by Genichiro/Isshin (barely into phase two, and only got that far twice), that I was forced to go and farm for resurrective power (which is a shitty bit of game design in my opinion, getting a deathblow on a boss should fully recharge one use of resurrection), and ended up going back to the rubbish Fountainhead Palace to farm enemies, then died as a result of shitty lock-on.

No more for me today, probably.

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TerminusEst from Finland
May 5th 2019 at 8:24:49 AM

I don't even bother with resurrective power, you only need the one anyway.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
May 5th 2019 at 8:29:11 AM

Same. I started bothering with it in NG+ for specific instances (isshin and demon of hatred) to generally use a second resurrection on phase 3 if I died in phase 2 (dying before was an immediate restart), but at this point I accumulated so many of the idols that give you back a resurrection for free I never ran out.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
TheCuriousFan from Australia Relationship Status: Barbecuing
May 6th 2019 at 9:26:18 PM

Cool detail I just noticed in the opening cutscene; it seems that General Tamura's spear is the same one Isshin fights you with at the end, implying he took it as a Battle Trophy after killing him.
That's been explicit since Gyoubu's Broken Horn tells you that he gave it to Gyoubu as a replacement spear. The real surprise of that cutscene is that Isshin looks to be using the black mortal blade, it's the only blade with the same hilt.

I need a new sig.
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 8th 2019 at 8:41:12 AM

Apologies if this isn't the thread where accessibility was being discussed, but I happened across an article about it https://meeplelikeus.co.uk/the-fun-of-inaccessibility/

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artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 9th 2019 at 3:48:13 PM

Right, I'm at the point where I need some general tips with Isshin the Sword Saint, phase one. I haven't come anything like close to beating him yet. General tips, or is there some particular trick I'm missing?

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Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
May 9th 2019 at 4:17:31 PM

a lot of those ,actually.

Especially since you're essentially expected to be able to perfect that phase more or less by accident to stand a chance against phase 2 and 3.

So. In no particular order.

It's really hard to internalize, but the move where he sheathes his sword must always be dealt with the same way : If he doesn't shift his stance while sheated, block the incoming attack and jump over the next move. Took me an unreasonably long amount of time to internalize it wasn't a mikiri.

If you see him slightly tilt his stance while sheathed, break out the umbrella to tank the incoming attack. Breaking out the umbrella on the regular attack works too, but only if you remember to immediately jump afterwards. Iframes are generous on that.

When he does ichimonji or that move where he charges up a big vertical slash, dodge on the sides at the last second and punish.

Generally, impose him your own rythm rather than let him do what he wants. Hit until you hear the cue that he's about to riposte, block the incoming two slashes (very predictible) then immediately go back to the offensive. Doing so tends to restrain him to the quick sheath and unsheath move, the one where he shoulder bashes you before trying to do a thrust (mikiri that), the two normal slashes, and sometimes ichimonji/dragon flash when you get a bit slow at applying pressure.

I've got some for genichiro or isshing phase 2/3 if you need it, too.

Edited by Yumil on May 9th 2019 at 1:27:22 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 9th 2019 at 5:25:02 PM

Nah, Genichiro is one of those ones where I either lose badly or win well, both quickly. Usually comes down to bad luck defending, or misreading an attack.

I actually looked up a guide, and found a different strategy for phase two; sprint. Sprinting to the side pretty reliably dodges his big attacks, and it's not hard to sprint sideways and towards him to be in a position to punish. I kept that up and kept my distance until his HP was at about 50%, then I stayed closer to start working on breaking his posture.

Of course, I died almost immediately in phase three, but now I have a strategy, I feel like I can do it again (probably more consistently than phase one), so I'm calling that a win for tonight :P

Thanks for the tips, anyhow :)

Edited by artfulscruff on May 9th 2019 at 1:26:14 PM

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artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 11th 2019 at 3:48:18 PM

Well, I'm back to inconsistently clearing phase one, and getting destroyed in phase two. The sprinting strategy that worked so well the first time I tried it isn't as consistent as that first attempt led me to believe it was, because he doesn't do the attacks I use it on as often as he did that one time. I'm also getting really sick of this particular attack he does almost every time I heal that hits me in less time that it takes to drink, no matter how far away he is.

I haven't been counting, but my death count on this one fight must be approaching half of my total deaths throughout the entirety of Dark Souls III (which I did count, it was around 80something). I think I've died more times in this fight tonight alone than I have to any single Dark Souls boss in a single run.

I'm starting to think I just can't do it.

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Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
May 11th 2019 at 3:58:02 PM

The trick is to not actually even try to heal through phase one. Trying to heal sends you into a spiral where you spend your time trying to heal and inevitably getting hit and losing the psychological advantage, while pressing on anyway doesn't actually lead to immediate death neraly as much as you'd think. It's a similar problem with phase 1 owl sometimes. Never try to panic heal, either power through the phase without it, or actually find a window to heal such as right after a mikiri or a jump counter.

Phase 2 is a lot more forgiving towards healing because he constatly tries to punish you with the overhead jump, but it's so slow you have the time to deflect right after healing.

Edited by Yumil on May 11th 2019 at 12:58:54 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 11th 2019 at 4:03:57 PM

Are you talking about Isshin phase one? I was unclear, I realise now; by 'phase one' I mean the Genichiro phase. If I die during that, or take too much damage, I just let him kill me, no point using a revive that early. Phase two/Isshin phase one, I've only managed to clear once so far, and that's the phase I mean has the attack that seems to specifically punish healing.

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artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 11th 2019 at 5:13:42 PM

Ragequit for tonight after Genichiro's opening attack hit me, something it hasn't done since probably the first attempt, which means either some bullshit happened, or I'm starting to make huge mistakes and need to stop playing. I wasn't doing anything different as far as I know.

At least one of Genichiro's big attacks has been occasionally inconsistent for me. Usually I can dodge the follow-up one, but one time I got behind him before the attack went off, then he spun around when it did go off, hitting me. Then later, he starts doing it when I was already behind him, so I dodge when it goes off, expecting him to turn again, but he didn't and I dodged right into it.

Hundreds of hours of Demons' Souls, Dark Souls, and Bloodborne didn't break me, but it's looking like this game might finally be the From Software game that defeats me, and it feels bad.

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Demongodofchaos2 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
May 11th 2019 at 6:28:45 PM

While there may be some superficial similarities, Sekiro is definitely not a traditional souls game, and I think thats the problem people are facing with the game.

ITNW1989 from Big Meat, USA Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
May 11th 2019 at 7:35:24 PM

For Genichirou, your best bet is to run straight in, sidestep his first charged attack, then ram into him with a charged double ichimonji. Not only does this prevent him from doing the possible second mortal strike, but this builds up a decent amount of posture damage that can help you quickly eliminate him and get to the real boss fight.

artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 12th 2019 at 4:49:45 AM

[up][up] Yeah, I've got beyond that, to the point where I don't know why they held on to the some of the Soulsian mechanics, which I personally think this game would be better without.

[up] I do keep forgetting about combat skills.

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Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
May 12th 2019 at 12:19:37 PM

there's also the alternative of a good ol axe to the face. I prefer to use that since it stops even the first hit of the mortal blade.

Other wise, if you're dodging during genichiro's phase, you have a problem. He has no attacks that would justify doing so.

Hardest part for me was understanding what he was doing after floating passage, because it had 3 variations : one without the danger prompt, that is a regular swing, followed by a thrust if you deflect it, one that is immediately the thust and whose tell essentially is that you can't see what the shit he's doing, and one that is similar to the thrust except you can clearly his sword preparing for a swipe.

The attacks where he runs around you to try to go for the bow are also free damage and interruptions.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 12th 2019 at 1:37:43 PM

if you're dodging during genichiro's phase, you have a problem. He has no attacks that would justify doing so.

Seems like a bit of a sweeping statement that assumes your strategy is the only correct one. Dodging the mortal blade attacks works just fine for me, it gets me behind or beside him where I can easily get a couple of hits in.

Anyway, there was improvement today, I got to Isshin phase two several times. Seems like this phase is kinda easier than the previous one; when I make it to this point, I don't usually get immediately destroyed as sometimes happens in preceding phases. Just need to learn the patterns and when I can punish him. The most obvious opening is after his big leap, but he doesn't always land in range of my sword, and sometimes I get greedy and keep swinging when he's already recovered, and he punishes me for it. His thrusts are easily countered too, but I think he also has a perilous sweep that he doesn't use often, so I mistake it for a thrust when it does come out. I haven't nailed the timing for the big charged sweep either, since I usually avoid it by jumping over it, not with a great success rate so far.

He's caught me out a couple of times in Isshin phase one by doing Ichimonji, which I block the first strike of then dodge the second and punish, but then instead of doing the second strike he does his charged slash, which gets me because I'm already automatically moving in to punish the expected second Ichimonji strike.

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Yumil Mad Archivist
Mad Archivist
May 12th 2019 at 2:02:42 PM

I'm sorry if I came off as condescending. it's just that from personal experience, the second swipe of a the mortal blade, if he decides to do one, is very unreliable on where to dodge and find that just axing him to the face is more reliable and just as effective. I also didn't realized you were talking about that specific attack but rather another one. I could actually get behind dodging for the mortal blade, I had a lot more trouble figuring which other attack would work well with dodging.

Isshin phase 2 can replace his thrust with low swipes if he feels like to, yeah. Like genichiro, it's a matter of watching out the movement of the weapon before reacting. At least his tells are fairly recognizable once you've seen them, but at first glance, the thrust lead-up doesn't really look like a thrust.

go-to answer to big charged attack is the umbrella, otherwise. Isshin's charged moves aren't really worth deflecting unless you're very sure about your timing.

Edited by Yumil on May 12th 2019 at 11:04:57 AM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 13th 2019 at 12:09:04 AM

Yeah, I haven't even tried to deflect them. The charged vertical slash I can avoid pretty easily now, but the horizontal sweep still gets me half the time (partly because he doesn't seem to use it that often, so I don't get to practice avoiding it).

And yeah, the second mortal blade strike can do some weird stuff sometimes (and I have been caught out by it, as mentioned in a previous post), but I can dodge it pretty reliably too now. The last time he got me with it, it was because he was facing a weird sideways angle and I didn't notice until I'd already reacted as if he was facing forward.

Also, one time I did accidentally deflect the first mortal strike, but then died trying to deflect the second. I honestly don't know if my timing was off or if the damage got through anyway.

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TerminusEst from Finland
May 13th 2019 at 4:28:05 AM

The Senpou high kick also does grotesque amounts of posture damage when timed correctly. It's also possible to mess with the various phases by being really aggressive, so that he never pulls out the spear.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
artfulscruff hopelessly optimistic from oop north
hopelessly optimistic
May 13th 2019 at 7:02:40 AM

Yeah, I read that, and I try going apeshit on him during the transition, but it hasn't worked yet :P

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SinNanna I'm the man who press that button from Aghartha Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
I'm the man who press that button
Jun 12th 2019 at 1:20:41 AM

Just popping in to say that I just got to Jinsuke Saze on my second playthrough and flawlessly parried and killed him second try. Sweet vengeance.

Edited by SinNanna on Jun 12th 2019 at 4:20:56 AM

"...always on the verge of death, yet repeatedly baffling Christendom by continuing to live."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
Jun 15th 2019 at 10:53:24 PM

I love this game so much. I'm not sure why but I've been able to click with this one so much more than I have with Bloodborne or Dark Souls.

Kaze ni Nare!
Demongodofchaos2 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Jun 16th 2019 at 8:29:02 PM

I love it for its atmosphere and the area variety. The Fountainhead palace is probably my favorite are froma From Software title yet.


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