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Harley Quinn: The Animated Series

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Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#251: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:21:49 PM

It'd take them giving botany a look.

Wake me up at your own risk.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#252: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:38:15 PM

I dunno how much of an Adaptational Wimp he is. He took out half the Legion of Doom by himself, and in the end they didn't even defeat him conventionally.

From what little I see, they seem to be playing as Super Friends Aquaman, but still Bad Ass.

He's an exaggerated nerd like everyone else, but also someone who's not to be messed with.

I like it. They've spent years trying to beat his Superfriends portrayal, and it's possible the DCEU movie did it (ironically enough) so now they can make fun of him in a fun way instead of forcing the same shit down our throats about how useless he supposedly is.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#253: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:39:47 PM

I mean its been done before.

The Brave and The Bold Aquaman was an absolute goofball but he was more heroic than most heroes in the business.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#254: Jan 19th 2020 at 2:56:37 PM

Been binging the show via methods.

Can't believe they got the real Frankie Muniz to appear in "Being Harley Quinn" as himself.

I swear the last I heard of him was when he was doing some race car driving or something and that was YEARS ago...

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#255: Jan 19th 2020 at 5:58:34 PM

Which Clayface is the one in the show?

[up]×2

Brave and the Bold Aquaman was great. Kinda acted like Marvel's Hercules.

Edited by Cortez on Jan 19th 2020 at 10:01:58 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#256: Jan 19th 2020 at 6:07:32 PM

Yeah, this Aquaman, with his overdramatic streak, reminds me more of Brave and the Bold’s Aquaman far more than Superfriends Aquaman.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 19th 2020 at 6:07:41 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#257: Jan 19th 2020 at 7:37:55 PM

That's a good Aquaman to go with.

I saw the clip of him taking on the Legion. Yeah, he even sent Black Adam flying like a punk.

Good thing this is a comedy, or he'd have solo'ed them...and he wasn't even there for the entire Legion. They were just in the way.

Good balance between awesome and silly.

One Strip! One Strip!
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#258: Jan 20th 2020 at 12:12:19 AM

Ivy is normally a low level metahuman at best, her schtick was being an eco terrorist using mutated plants and poisons she developed the hard way through Mad Science. Her becoming a "plant-bender" is a relatively recent development.

Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#259: Jan 20th 2020 at 2:34:59 AM

Didn't most of Bat villains got power boost? Like, Killer Croc definitely doesn't look like a man with a skin disease anymore.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#260: Jan 20th 2020 at 3:03:28 AM

Pretty much.

Power escalation set in & several of Bats rogues can be outright superhuman depending on the adaptation.

The Batman cartoon had a Mr. Freeze who can control ice instead of just shooting it with a gun or a Croc who was a full crocodile-man with the tail & everything.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 20th 2020 at 3:03:55 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#261: Jan 20th 2020 at 4:30:48 AM

It's kind of hard to imagine that Bane was introduced beating up Croc to establish his credentials, as a body builder with a skin condition was Batman's strongest physical enemy at the time. Power escalation and all, but considering how Batman has to aim high to join in Justice League adventures, a body builder with a skin condition just doesn't seem as threatening anymore.

GamerSlyRatchet Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
#262: Jan 20th 2020 at 7:53:09 AM

I still don't know how to feel about Ivy/Kite Man, but her saying he was better than any Lo D member was kinda cute.

Latest blog update (November 5th, 2022).
Zombie_Jack Since: May, 2019
#263: Jan 20th 2020 at 9:33:12 AM

^^ Yeah it's definitely a case of "we have to keep making our villains more powerful so there's enough tension and suspense" (is that a trope in it's own right?) that tends to pop up a lot in action series that run for long enough. I also feel like Ivy has been getting powered up recently because she's among the most iconic and popular DC villains, in the same way Harley has been getting a skills upgrade in recent years.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#264: Jan 20th 2020 at 9:46:52 AM

Clayface is another that got hit by it. Earlier on, even with superpowers the mud themed Clayfaces were more masters of disguise than the hulking, physical powerhouses they are today.

One of the Clayfaces in the past had a Death Touch power, but even that was more low key and fed more in to the horror/mystery aspect than the action aspect. (In comparison, Batman's primary Death Touch villain today - Dr. Phosphorus - has a whole host of powerful fire powers to go along with it).

Mr. Freeze is another. He basically wears an unbreachable tank these days.

And also, of course, while he hasn't gotten any more powers, there's also Joker - who has become more and more unbeatable over the years.

Zombie_Jack Since: May, 2019
#265: Jan 20th 2020 at 10:19:08 AM

^ Oh I totally agree about Joker, he's almost gotten to the point of being a Villain Sue in some recent incarnations, to the point Harley basically lampshaded how weird it is that other Lo D villains seem to fear and suck up to him.

Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#266: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:02:46 AM

Even Two-Face was revealed to have training from Deathstroke. Black Mask, I bet also has some crazy "power level" upgrade.

Stuff like that is why it's so hard to take Ventreliquist seriously.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#267: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:24:14 AM

They seem to have gone for one of the slightly less powerful Jokers in this one. Frequently, he's a Badass Normal all-rounder who can match Batman both physically and mentally. In HQTAS, Harley's the muscle, and the Joker's a Luthor-like schemer and gadgeteer who makes up for his relative lack of resources with viciousness, unpredictability, and what can politely be described as 'people skills'.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#268: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:40:21 AM

Clayface is significantly less powerful here than his BTAS incarnation, but Rule of Funny is in full effect. He’s amazing.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#269: Jan 20th 2020 at 3:56:30 PM

[up][up] It's rarely drawn attention to, but Harley was Joker's muscle in the comics too. She has mild superpowers there (she's Comics! Captain America-esque "peak human").

Joker's power buffs over the years weren't of the physical ability kind, they were more of the - for lack of a better word - psychological and tactical kind. He became more and more what is now basically Diabolus ex Machina personified: whatever he would need to have planned to get away with whatever he wants to do, drive whoever he wants to crazy in the process, or kill whoever he wants to skill, he'll have done it and nobody will expect it until he's already won.

Even if you beat him, Joker will typically show up a week later declare that you never actually did anything to slow him down, and then kill you.

A good comparison is how BTAS had a story where an everyman outwits and gets a victory over the Joker, with Joker in BTAS being based more on. There have been Joker vs Everyman stories in the present too, but the idea of Joker actually losing to an everyman (or really anyone who isn't Batman) is unheard of these days. Usually they'll be tormented, killed and then forgotten like trash.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 20th 2020 at 4:01:36 AM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#270: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:02:36 AM

BTAS Joker was often very fallible - not only was he reduced to begging for mercy from some schlub nobody, he was scared of the Creeper and of course wouldn't even THINK of taking on the IRS.

He was the best Joker.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#271: Jan 21st 2020 at 5:53:13 AM

That's often a big issue with big long-running franchises (though Marvel and DC are both especially bad about this), when a character (villains in particular) gets popular either writers will take notice and push them more into the spotlight or the fans who liked them will eventually become the writers and end up glorifying these characters by making them always succeed and remove any weaknesses they once had.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#272: Jan 21st 2020 at 7:45:47 AM

> BTAS Joker was often very fallible

It helps the general audience was children so they couldn't have Joker go on killing sprees or do anything grim dark,they had to be creative

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#273: Jan 21st 2020 at 9:43:39 AM

IIRC, BTAS Joker was mostly based on how Joker was in the late 70's and early 80's. A killer, but not exclusively so - the focus was on the irony aspect and theatricality of the character. A deadly opponent, but with foibles and clear weaknesses - the focus was on him being a counter to Batman rather than an undefeatable threat. Etc.

Though, with that said, an interesting thing about BTAS Joker that marks him as different than most other depictions of the Joker (even the comics version at the time) is that he's also very selfish and a bit of a coward. You could always get a reaction of DCAU Joker out of situations that threatened his life, often a self-sabotaging one. It was that version's biggest weaknesses.

Also, he didn't really have the motivation to corrupt Batman, or really the same close attachment to Batman the comics version did/does. The Man Who Killed Batman puts him in a slump, but only because he wasn't the one to do it. He's gleefully happy to off Bruce in Return of the Joker with barely a parting word, or even better - in Justice League he outright tells Lex Luthor to shoot Batman in the face rather than let him hang around.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 21st 2020 at 9:43:54 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#274: Jan 21st 2020 at 9:45:44 AM

Though in Mask of the Phantasm, in the face of death as the world around falls into flames, he couldn’t help but laugh.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#275: Jan 21st 2020 at 10:04:22 AM

I hate stories where the Joker is made out to be some next-level threat who's head and shoulders above all of Batman's other rogues. The Death of the Family was particularly awful about downgrading the rest of Batman's enemies to outright chumps in wildly out-of-character ways in order to make the Joker seem cooler.

The Joker in the BTAS was, at most, the first among equals out of Batman's rogues for most of the series run, which I think is the way it should be. As noted, he was also not some unflappable being of pure chaos who never lost his cool or suffered setbacks or humiliation — which made him a far more nuanced and entertaining character than many other later versions.

On a related note, I think it's interesting that for so long, people wanted Mark Hamill to do a version of the Joker's monologue from The Killing Joke, because I don't believe the DCAU Joker would ever say anything like this. The DCAU Joker is not an introspective or self-aware guy who does what he does out of some deep nihilistic despair or disillisionment or with the world. He's purely a selfish, sadistic asshole who does what he does for his own self-amusement.

In that way, the Harley Quinn version strikes me as pretty similar to Hamill's first take on the character.


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