NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Image and page quote look acceptable. Quotes subpage looks acceptable, but I don't think the Haiku subpage works any more. Only the first haiku seems to still fit the definition.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That was not my intent.
The Laconic also fits the new definition.
edited 2nd Jan '18 9:44:38 AM by Lymantria
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
I find the laconic unfocused.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
What would you suggest? I simply said it fits the new definition.
If examples of writers mistaking words don't go in this trope, where do they go?
edited 16th Jan '18 5:36:17 PM by Lymantria
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Again, a thread stalling because of lack of ownership. Perhaps mods should hold thread "sponsors" responsible after a period of inactivity once a final decision was made. If anyone was invested in the subject moving forward, it should be them (unless they don't agree with the decision made, which would be too bad).
Here's
an in-universe example for a start.
edited 5th Feb '18 5:53:04 PM by eroock
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
I'd like an answer to my question.
Blapper of Water
There's always the possibility that "writers misuse words" is Not A Trope. That said, we do have Malaproper, Delusions of Eloquence, Insistent Terminology, and Grammar Nazi. Just "it's the wrong word" is more like Artistic License than a specific trope.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Also, if there's an Artistic License trope for the subject of the word, put it there.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Should we start a sandbox to tweak the description and example subpages?
edited 7th Feb '18 9:31:04 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I think "a list of words that are commonly confused or misused, or with lingering old definitions some pedants will claim are the true definitions" could be a useful Useful Note. It would be a lot shorter than a dictionary, and a writer wouldn't go to a dictionary to look up the real meaning of a word they don't know they're misusing. TV Tropes can also provide context to the evolving meaning of words or (especially) to common misuses of words that dictionaries don't always do.
I know I'm coming in late, but it seems to me there are two potential in-universe tropes that could use this name:
- A person repeatedly and consistently uses a single word or set of words wrong. I feel like this is potentially distinguishable enough from Malaproper, and also from Delusions of Eloquence though there's more grey area there.
- Someone corrects someone else's misuse of a word. This seems to be what we're going to redefine this as, though it's awfully close to Grammar Nazi. Insistent Terminology seems to be a specific case of this, where it's usually specific to the person doing the correcting and the distinction is often mostly in their head.
A writer consistently using a word wrong wouldn't be a trope, but it could be a viable YMMV entry, though I could see it devolving into whining and Grammar Nazi-esque pedantry, especially for the words currently in Very Pedantic. More to the point, usage of the page for this a) seems to be slightly more common than the current working trope definition but b) is rarely on YMMV or Trivia pages, so considerable link editing will have to be done no matter what.
- Characters.A Dinner Game: "They often say defiantly over definitely." An in-universe character consistently misusing a word, bordering on Rouge Angles of Satin.
- Music.Alanis Morissette: "Also, she doesn't understand the meaning of the word "ironic."" Seems to be word misuse in general, possibly of the out-of-universe form.
- Creator.Allison Pregler: A Caustic Critic criticizing how the subjects of her criticism misuse words.
- Characters.Andi Mack: Tagged as an "in-universe" example, so presumably using it as out-of-universe misuse of words, though the example only says the misuser did it to "look cute" without saying anything about what she meant by it, if she meant anything specific at all.
- Gush.Anime And Manga: Lampshading the entry's repeating "fanservice" four times in eighteen words, so should probably be something like Department of Redundancy Department, Running Gag, or Overly Long Gag.
- Machinima.Arby N The Chief: Used twice. The time it's used as an actual example either in-universe definition could apply (though it doesn't sound like the character provides the correct definition), but the first time, where it's potholed, it's (presumably) referring to actually correcting the person using it, and there's nothing indicating the misuse is one the other character routinely uses.
- Recap.Arrested Development S 1 E 1 Pilot: Another correction of a one-time error.
- Recap.Asterix And The Goths: Honestly I don't think there's a viable definition where this one isn't straight misuse - it belongs better as Artistic License โ History.
- Literature.A Wrinkle In Time: Out-of-universe misuse of words. Really should be on a YMMV page, unless we were to decide this was a case of "Artistic License Vocabulary".
- ComicBook.Batman Odyssey: Ditto (except since this is a Snark Bait work the Artistic License excuse is less likely).
- Characters.Big Brother 16 The Jury: Being a pothole on a misused word, in the context of explaining a tendency of someone's unrelated to the misuse, on an example for another trope, for a reality show, a case could be made for all three of the above definitions (at least without knowing more about the incident(s) referred to by the pothole).
- Board Games: Pothole for this (part of a) sentence, referring to Scrabble: "actually knowing the definition isn't important to the game so long as it is an actual word." That seems to suggest either of the definitions where the trope applies to the misuser as opposed to any corrector, though I'm not sure it should be there in any case.
- Film.Brokeback Mountain: Out-of-universe misuse, though as it's a pothole where the misuse is actually in the name of the trope it's actually an example of, it doesn't (necessarily) need to be kicked to YMMV.
- Manga.Card Captor Sakura: I... think this is out-of-universe misuse or even making up words, but it's really more Gratuitous English (as the example itself seems to acknowledge) and it seems to me like all four words are Perfectly Cromulent Words for what they're getting at, with the only real concern being whether "Firey" is spelled right. (Well, that, and "firey" and "earthy" are more commonly used to refer to people than literally.)
- Literature:Childe Cycle: Either in-universe definition.
- Wrestling.CM Punk: One part correcting a misused word with a dash of it being repeatedly done, one part Insistent Terminology.
- Series.Cougar Town: Correcting a misused word; the misusers don't seem to necessarily misuse the same word repeatedly, more they repeatedly misuse words in general in the same way.
- Franchise.Cthulhu Mythos: Out-of-universe misuse that, once again, belongs better on a YMMV page.
- Series.Dancing With The Stars: Out-of-universe misuse, though this is sort of a meta-misuse where a show is said to have two "seasons" a year. The example claims the show should use "cycles" like America's Next Top Model, but it's not the only reality show to use "season" to refer to twice-yearly "cycles"; see The Voice. (That said, it's awfully misleading for a show that only premiered in 2005 to be celebrating its 25th "season".)
- Funny.Death Battle Season Four: Correction of one-time misuse.
- Delusions of Eloquence: The description says to "see You Keep Using That Word for the most often misused words", which is correct for what it is currently. But the South Park example also potholes to You Keep Using That Word for repeated misuse of a single word.
- VideoGame.Dive Kick: Calling out the player for misusing a word even if they haven't actually misused it. Filing this under "correcting another character's misuse".
- Characters.Doubt Academy Omega Roster:
Don't Call Me Frau: Coupled with a Sustained Misunderstanding. During her and Nicanor's first meeting in the prologue, she believes the word "frau" (the German equivalent for "miss") to be derogatory due to Nicanor's tone. Nicanor becomes confused at her anger and continues to address her as "frau" which doesn't help his case as Imogen gets angry that He Keeps Using That Word."
- Drives Like Crazy: "In Russia, this is associated with Caucasian driversnote:as in, from the Caucasus Mountains, not the commonly used term for white people in the rest of the world." Used to clarify confusion between two reasonable definitions of the same word.
- Useful Notes.Economics: "Of course, many systems described in fiction as post-scarcity are not post-scarcity." This seems to be out-of-universe word misuse but may be just as much authors not properly thinking through the implications of the term "post-scarcity", though that may be a distinction without a difference.
- WebVideo.Epic Rap Battles Of History: A character pointing out another character's misuse... if the other character even used the word to begin with.
- VideoGame.Extreme G: Pothole to signify out-of-universe misuse.
- Literature.Fifty Shades Of Greynote : Another case of out-of-universe misuse on the main page of a Snark Bait work, though the text seems to attribute it to the character who's narrating and not the work.
- Characters.Fire Emblem Awakening Second Generation: Correcting a character's continued misuse of a single word. On the one hand, it's in the misuser's folder, but on the other, the text of the example is entirely about the correction.
- VideoGame.Freddy Fazbears Pizzeria Simulator: Potholed to the second use of the word "gamble" in in-universe text. Filing under out-of-universe misuse (especially since the sentence goes on to say the "gamble" in question "comes with a one-hundred percent chance of success in some cases"), even though the misuse is almost certainly intentional on the part of the creator (it's an in-universe advertisement, so it's out-of-universe with respect to the advertisement), but not ruling out that whoever added it figured the use of the word twice was enough to justify tagging it as "this work uses this word a lot".
So that's 30 links, 2 where an in-universe character consistently misuses a single word, 9 used for a character correcting someone else's misuse (including Allison Pregler and any case that could refer to either in-universe definition), 11 for out-of-universe misuse (on this front, it's worth noting that of all 1000+ links, 33 are on YMMV pages with another 13 on Trivia), 6 that straight-up shouldn't be there (including Board Games, CCS, and CM Punk), 2 that actually use it as the page exists today (counting Delusions of Eloquence both here for the description and under the first definition for the example), and 1 where you could argue for multiple definitions (not counting the first Arby 'n' the Chief pothole).
edited 8th Feb '18 4:35:40 AM by MorganWick
^ Comments:
- Well done. Apparently, there is a big mess to clean up.
- Your first proposed definition seems off because a cornerstone of this trope is that the mistake is being acknowledged. If a character uses a term consistently wrong and nobody notices it may well be the creator getting it wrong.
- Overlap with Grammar Nazi and Insistent Terminology: The misuse must be severe. Grammar Nazi and Insistent Terminology deal with something being almost right but not sufficiently right for somebody. Compare the example of the trope namer The Princess Bride: "inconceivable" is used instead of "impossible". Pointing it out is not being pedantic.
- My complaint would be with the current trope title which implies repeated misuse while this trope should apply for one-time misuses as well. Something like Not Word You Think It Means (well maybe too playful here) or Wrong Context Word.
edited 11th Feb '18 1:59:20 AM by eroock
I see that
How sweet it is
Checking in since it's almost 10 months. I presume there's unfinished business?
Edited by Berrenta on Jun 28th 2019 at 11:04:05 AM
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
To be honest, I don't think much has been done, despite the decision being made almost two years ago. I was a TRS rookie in 2017, but I think I've figured out how we should tackle this:
- Rewrite the description to match the revised definition. A sandbox (probably Sandbox.You Keep Using That Word) would probably come in handy here. Since I have no experience writing descriptions, I'd probably have to defer to others for this one.
- Clean up the wicks. Remove examples that don't match the revised definition, and crosswick ones that do.
- Cutlist the old subpages, since they're word lists (as well as general examples) and not examples from works.
Edit: I saw that this is in the Bad Writing Index. That listing would have to go due to the revised definition. Since this is about characters getting words wrong, "bad" usage sounds like it would be Stylistic Suck at worst.
Edit: I started Sandbox.You Keep Using That Word. I mainly cut parts that are irrelevant to the revised definition (which is most of it, especially considering how long-winded the current description is), aside from the addition of a new and likely barebones paragraph describing the new definition.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 11th 2019 at 10:58:53 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
TRS bump.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99ยข
Can we all agree though that the trope is generally misused as it can be easily confused for other tropes as was already mentioned several times already? I even spotted people trying to grammer nazi their way into using examples. It's wince inducing when you see some of the misuse in the examples on some of the pages.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Edit: Retracted because I didn't know other people worked on the sandbox when I originally posted this, though I'm going to leave the post's original contents.
I've been thinking for a while that it probably would have been easier to make this change through TLP instead of being done entirely through TRS, since TLP is for the creation of trope pages, and in its current state, You Keep Using That Word really more of a nitpicky dictionary than a trope, so turning this into a trope for in-universe word confusion would pretty much mean creating a new trope page. That, and the wick check showed that use for nitpicking is more common than in-universe, pointed-out word confusion.
Problem is, I have no experience with TLP, have only very rarely looked through the drafts, and have mainly only provided input for threads that come from TRS threads. Thus, I'd be the wrong person to work on a TLP draft, and I'm aware that TLP drafts that come from TRS threads aren't always the easiest to work with regardless of that.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 29th 2020 at 9:53:34 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I mean... on one hand I'm inclined to agree but it also feels like the TLP has become the TRS's go-to dumping ground lately and it's starting to really get on my nerves. TRS drafts almost never launch because of the disconnect between the communities and while obviously we have to use it when we're making a trope from scratch, I'm just opposed to the whole "send it to TLP" mindset everyone here seems to have, almost never considering how it'll actually work and if anyone actually cares enough to do the work they think should be done.
Not getting on you specifically Gaston as I think you have a point here. It's just so aggravating to be active on both parts of the site and to see the disconnect first-hand while everyone else seems pretty content to just shove things to TLP and then never touch them again. This trend has been dying lately because people like me have been pointing out the problems, but it's still such a flawed solution that we really shouldn't rely on it unless it's necessary and there's someone willing to shoulder the burden of the draft.
The TLP is already a mess- TRS drafts don't help that.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sandbox.You Keep Using That Word looks pretty good to me already. It just needs examples, which can be added as we do wick cleanup. I don't think we need to do it through the TLP.
Edited by naturalironist on Jun 29th 2020 at 10:11:30 AM
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I didn't know that other people edited the sandbox until now, but if people are already working on this without TLP, then that's certainly better than sending this to TLP. In that case, I'm retracting what I previously said.
I was hesitant to even bring up TLP because I'm aware that TRS threads that have that happen can end up taking up spots in the backlog for both parts of the site. (Last year's thread for Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped comes to mind; I and a few other people suggested that the thread be closed before the associated TLP draft's launch because the TLP draft was the only thing that needed to be worked on, rather than any cleanup work.)
I only brought it up because I didn't know that this thread had been getting any attention; naturalironist's above post is why I looked at the sandbox's history page a bit ago (I didn't think to look at it earlier). I posted the sandbox almost two full years after this thread was started, and none of the other people who worked on the sandbox posted in this thread since then (I'm not holding this against them; I'm just saying why I didn't know about it).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 29th 2020 at 9:40:23 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Like I said, I wasn't trying to jump on you. I understand your viewpoint. I just wish people in general would stop using the TLP as a TRS dumping-ground, or would at least be willing to get involved in the TLP side of things if they voted to take a draft there.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I just added some examples to the sandbox so now it has the minimum. Did we want to make a page to hold "work uses a word incorrectly" examples, or should we just delete those?
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Crown Description:
You Keep Using That Word has been redefined to be about characters pointing out other characters' misuse of words. The original crowner voted to maybe move the current examples to a Useful Note. Should we?
1. Forget about the dinosaur analogy. 2. I asked for thoughts on the trope's new definition.
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!