Remember that Klyden had the surgery done on him too as a baby and he only found out by accident. It really seems like he felt exactly the same as Topa and was doing the boomerang bigot thing to avoid having to admit his culture could be wrong.
He can't accept Topa without admitting that what was done to him was wrong, at least in his own mind. And he knows that the crew of the Orville would entirely back up Bortus and Topa.
Edited by Zendervai on Jul 3rd 2022 at 1:48:21 PM
Just checked this video:
Those alt-rights and similar fauna are really praising The Orville and claiming it as one of their own? Are they really praising Seth? WTF?
Aren't they aware of Seth's long standing and well-known political positions? Arent' they getting that the Krill and the Moclans are supposed to mock conservatives in different ways? What's wrong here?
It's because the Orville started out as "the alternative to Woke Trek" and got more serious over time.
The result is that the Orville has gotten super fucking blunt in this last season while Strange New Worlds is a lot more vague on the allegory but the anti-woke crowd haven't caught on yet.
And Seth Macfarlane's reputation hasn't been as a left-wing atheist type, it's been "the irreverent Family Guy creator" to a lot of people, so he's been assumed to be on the right for a long time even though it couldn't be further from the truth.
Edited by Zendervai on Jul 6th 2022 at 9:32:09 AM
That's incredibly ironic. SNW is doing exactly what they always wanted, having a white male lead, be "true" to classic Trek and downplaying "wokeness" (even when Star Trek always was) and yet they still hate it. Whilst The Orville is being more woke than post flanderization Lisa Simpson with steroids and they don't get it.
Edited by Dgon on Jul 6th 2022 at 6:39:42 AM
It's the most obvious indicator yet that they're operating in bad faith and deliberately misinterpreting things as much as they can.
Apparently Angel (a non-binary character with no discernable real world political affiliation) is a woke nightmare, but an entire episode attacking right-wing demagogues and anti-abortion people and crappy election systems and depicting a fascist coup as a bad thing is harmless entertainment?
Right-wing people has so few shows for them not starred by Tim Allen that is no wonder they claim to everything they can even if is not the author's intention. This remembers me how much popular Firefly was among right-wingers as they saw the show as a big libertarian anti-government message even tho Joss Whedon himself is a well known leftist.
Edited by TVGuy on Jul 6th 2022 at 10:13:34 AM
I wouldn't exactly call Strange New Worlds the bastion of downplayed wokeness people supporting the Orville seem to be given that one of the crew is non-binary, nurse chapel is bisexual, and the white male captain's primary power is that he's The Heart rather than a badass.
Part of why Jesse Gender prefers Nu Trek to Orville is that it also hit the ground running with not using metaphors. Not alien binary, trans, and gay characters but, well human ones.
But yes, I will say Topa's episode deserves to be called Orville's "Measure of a Man"
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jul 6th 2022 at 10:32:08 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.The earlier episodes that touch on time travel (except the season 2 finale) all mention that the rules are theoretical. The Union doesn't have time travel and doesn't know how to make it happen on purpose, they just created the rules because...weird anomalies mean it's gonna happen at some point. So most of them would be theoretical beyond basic things like "don't interfere with anything necessary for the Union to form, that could create a paradox."
I honestly thought Ed's "go back in time ten years" bit was a bluff, and Gordon was going to go with him at the end rather than have his family erased from existence.
Also, how were you guys surprised by his actions? If you read the bio they brought up on the screen, it clearly says everything that he did. Did you guys not read it? Cuz I did.
Edited by WillKeaton on Jul 7th 2022 at 5:49:34 AM
![]()
![]()
Doubtful, several episodes show otherwise, the one with Charlize Theron and the one with the Bad Future because Mercer never entered starfleet (or whatever the name is) all seem to be erased from existence once the timeline is re-set.
It's really weird that the Union suddenly has these super well-outlined rules regarding a technology that did not exist until today, and how doggedly so many of the characters follow those rules. The bit at the end with Gordon saying how Mercer was right to do what he did felt really really awkward.
This was a Gordon who never experienced everything that happened.
He was just hearing about it second hand and lacked a lot of the context.
He basically lost his memories of what happened and got a cliff notes version of what happened.
So he's looking at things from the point of view of the person he is at that moment, who still believes in the laws, rather than the man who held out for three years before cracking and accepting that he'd never be able to go home.
Though if that's not enough, I'd argue it was supposed to sound awkward. Only Ed and Kelly really understand what they took from him. That's the painful part: even Gordon doesn't get what he lost, and they have to live with making that choice.
One Strip! One Strip!I don't know, I didn't like the ending and not because it was downer, but because it felt rush and deus ex machiney. I was wondering several endings in my mind while watching the episode:
- This was indeed the final episode of Gordon and the character was going to remain there.
- They were going to do some time shenanigans that would made two Gordons one left behind and another went back.
- They were going to be back in time and find a dystopia discovering that Gordon's son was instrumental in the foundation of the Union making it a self-contain time loop allowing for a two-parter when they had to figure out how to fix things back again.
- They were indeed to take them back and we'll see Gordon's family life form now on and his wife's struggles to adapt.
Not to brag but all of them feel like more interesting outcomes that just going back to status quo with no psychological, ethical and moral consequences for anyone involved and just erasing two kids out of existence.
Edited by Dgon on Jul 8th 2022 at 7:50:06 AM
I wouldn't say there's no psychological or moral consequences.
Ed and Kelly know what they did, and know what they took away from Gordon.
Every time they see him, they'll remember that version of him who broke down when he realized what he was about to lose, and that he'd never even know it.
I get the feeling the show isn't going to forget that.
One Strip! One Strip!

Klyden was already ready to murder Topa and turned over Bortus' ex for the crime of heterosexuality (to what is implied to be his execution). He's been an objectively evil person for awhile.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.