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Darling In the FRANXX (Trigger/ A-1 Pictures collaboration)

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#151: Jan 21st 2018 at 4:18:31 PM

[up] Indeed Age from what I read only starting getting really bad nearing the end. Hell the middle part was apparently a growing the beard moment. It must take a lot for a show to be genuinely bad on all accounts then.

Also the critiques I've seen of this show are either "Oooooh sex & stuff this show is gross & sexist" or how tropey & cliche it is despite it only being on the second episode.

edited 21st Jan '18 4:19:09 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#152: Jan 21st 2018 at 4:45:06 PM

Honestly I can appreciate somebody disliking this show for either of those reasons. Anime doesn't exactly have a great when it comes to sexism, and this show in particular is guilty of some Male Gaze stuff. And the way it's interested in directly talking about sexuality makes that harder to ignore than it otherwise would be.

And it is very tropey; it's wearing the influence from half a dozen other mech series on its sleeve. Really the focus on exploring sexuality is the only thing that sets it apart thus far.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#153: Jan 21st 2018 at 5:01:54 PM

I'm pretty curious about exactly how far the metaphors are going to go. It's pretty blatant so far, but it might be just like that early on to establish it and then be more subtle later on. I mean, let's face it, innuendo aside, it is just subtext, though really strong subtext.

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RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#154: Jan 21st 2018 at 5:23:48 PM

Yeah, the worst thing they could do would be to move past this and not touch on the obvious parallels for the rest of the series. That would make it just another fanservice anime, instead of something like Kill La Kill where it was part of the message. Vandread managed to do it back in 2000, so it would be pretty embarrassing if this one didn't have anything to say.

And I can definitely understand hesitance to watch this show. Hell, I'm hesitant to recommend it to anyone yet, and even if the show is fantastic in later episodes, episode 2 is going to be a big stumbling block. It really comes down to what it has to say, and whether what it has to say is worth the fanservice - and that's a decision people will have to make on their own. Admittedly it's easier for me to overlook the fanservice since... well, it's fanservice aimed at me, to be blunt. So I can't say anyone should be able to just swallow it.

It's been fun.
WolfThunder Before the storm closes in, the wolf howls at th Since: Jun, 2013
Before the storm closes in, the wolf howls at th
#155: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:28:22 PM

I'm adding this to the forum very late, because apparently that's my thing now, but I wanted to share my two cents on episode one. What I got from episode one is that the show is ultimately going to be about relationships, and not just the typical "falling in love" kind of shtick, but how relationships in general can affect other peoples lives.

Now, this whole diatribe is about to go into theory territory, I still haven't seen episode two yet, and I've already read a detail from one of the previous posts on here that could disprove my point, but just bear with me for a bit;

Hiro doesn't seem like the kind of person who likes to be upfront about himself. He keeps himself quiet and reserved, and appears to have put up walls around his heart to try to keep people from connecting with him. The reason I say that is because during their "syncing", Hiro seems to actively refuse to connect with her Naomi, keeping either of them from passing the test. She even calls him out on it before she departs, basically saying that Hiro not allowing himself to respect himself is not as selfless as he thinks it is.

Meanwhile Zero Two is part-Klaxosaur, so I'm assuming her "weird tendencies" are because she doesn't have a good understanding of human morality and nature. Remember that she's a parasite that's been rumored to suck the life out of whoever's partnered with her, and that her partner before Hiro was an older male with a number of physical injuries. I'm guessing the reason she sucked on the lifeforce of her previous partners is because she didn't trust them, whereas Hiro got out just fine because she trusts him a lot (Even going so far as to calling him her "Darling").

What I'm thinking about their relationship is that it'll cause the both of them to go through major Character Development, with Hiro learning to be more upfront and honest about himself, while Zero Two learns to be more compassionate about human nature.

Now for the detail that I read that could disprove this whole thing, it has been confirmed that Hiro actually holds a lot of power inside of him, so it could've been more that Naomi couldn't handle his power rather than him actively doing anything, and Zero Two might not trust him and care more about the power stored within him. Also if the show is about relationships, it could most likely only focus on the romantic kind.

I dunno, I blabbed on for long enough. Thoughts?

The storm has now resided, the wolf now rests.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#156: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:35:17 PM

The thing about that is that I don't know why 02 would trust Hiro that much more than previous partners.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#157: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:36:25 PM

Because she can keep up with him.

Going with the innuendo none of her previous partners were able to handle her but he seems to have the vitality.

edited 21st Jan '18 6:37:19 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#158: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:40:29 PM

That's circular- Wolfthunder was suggesting that the reason Hiro can keep up with her is because she trusts him- you can't then claim that the reason she trusts him is because he can keep up with her.

Furthermore I feel like it remains to be seen whether or not he actually can keep up with her- forgetting everything that happened isn't exactly a normal part of the process.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#159: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:42:10 PM

Yeah. There's still too much we don't know about Hiro to say why he can manage it, or honestly what else separates him from the others.

To be honest, I kind of wish they hadn't gone the whole 'sad teen boy has Special Power Deep Inside' route, but I guess that's what you get in some genres.

It's been fun.
WolfThunder Before the storm closes in, the wolf howls at th Since: Jun, 2013
Before the storm closes in, the wolf howls at th
#160: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:55:11 PM

[up] What I've found is that when comes to elements like this, it just goes to show that most writers and stories are like William Shakespeare and his 16 comedies: Once they find a formula that works, they tend to use it over and over and over again.

The storm has now resided, the wolf now rests.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#161: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:59:06 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I'm not a fan of that one either. And I definitely agree that dropping the metaphor would make a large chunk of the show rather pointless, though I could see them toning it down so it's there but not quite as "in-your-face'' as it has been so far.

I'm not sure what to make of it at this point either; I feel like it's either going to turn out awesome, or fall flat on its face.

Anyway, to move away from the sex imagery a bit, I think it'll be really interesting to see how well Hiro copes with basically being dependent on Zero Two; at this point it's pretty clear that his synergy with her is pretty much the only reason why they're keeping him around, and we saw from the first episode that he really wants to try to "fly" on his own. The notion that they're only using him essentially as buffer for somebody else might cause some issues.

Which is why I'm really curious about how his relationship with Zero Two is going to develop, because either he'll grow to realize how important it is to have that kind of mutual reliance on your partner, or it'll just make his inferiority complex worse.

edited 21st Jan '18 7:03:16 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#162: Jan 21st 2018 at 7:50:17 PM

It making his inferiority complex worse would suck. I am expecting a sort of 'Gurren episodes 9-11' arc with this show, especially given the stated Evangelion influences, but I really hope that doesn't dominate things. It's not particularly interesting.

It's been fun.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#163: Jan 21st 2018 at 8:14:54 PM

Same. I'd get flashbacks to Evangelion. I mean, yeah, it's realistic and all to have him crack under pressure, but it's not very entertaining. And it's just more interesting to watch them overcome those issues anyway.

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KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#164: Jan 22nd 2018 at 12:00:55 AM

I mean, let's face it, innuendo aside, it is just subtext, though really strong subtext.

Oh no, it's text and has been since they decided to name the piloting positions, pistil and stamen, after the reproductive organs of plants.

And the thing is, because it is text and clearly intended, its what direction things are headed in that are going to be the make or break on whether it actually succeeds.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#165: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:09:27 AM

Well, yeah, it is incredibly blatant. That was never in doubt. My point is just that so far there hasn't been any literal, actual sex taking place. Although honestly there might as well be, given how strong the resemblance is.

I agree that how they follow through on it is what makes or breaks the series though.

edited 22nd Jan '18 5:12:30 AM by JapaneseTeeth

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Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#166: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:24:54 AM

Trigger/Gainax usually has fairly positive messages in their work, it’s just that the routes they take can be eye popping. I mean, at its core, Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt was a sex-positive story that condemned the moe trend and purity standards forced on women. People tend to ignore that in the midst of all the cursing and parodies of US cartoons. This may have something to say about gender roles and romantic chemistry (dude wants to be under Zero Two’s heel) vs societal expectations but the execution is going to be the big deal.

HighVelocityPointyThings Since: May, 2012
#167: Jan 22nd 2018 at 5:59:03 PM

I don't understand why so many people are coming to the conclusion that Hiro is going to be some kind of masochist who wants to be dominated by 02.

They're clearly smitten teenagers. Yes, 02 is assertive and tends to overwhelm almost everyone she interacts with, but notice how her tone of voice and mannerisms change as soon as she starts interacting with Hiro. Likewise, he has no idea what love is and is almost certainly confusing his excitement about being able to pilot with his excitement about the pretty girl with the "alluring horns". She's being forward and he's oblivious, but there's no sign that they're anything other than conventional in their desires.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#168: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:04:43 PM

I mean, she's an assertive woman, but Satsuki Kiryuin she is not.

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#169: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:09:32 PM

Yeah, I'm gonna second that. While it's true that 02 is assertive (and her 'using up' of her copilots does lend itself to a The Vamp interpretation), we haven't really seen any indication that their relationship is based in S&M or even really hints at it. If anything, Hiro seems desperate for validation that he was the active partner and for a chance to experience that again.

It's been fun.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#170: Jan 22nd 2018 at 6:25:54 PM

I don't really see the S&M elements either. There is an element of role reversal in that in all the other cases the man seems to be taking the lead while the girl is more passive, which Zero Two completely flips, but that doesn't necessarily need to imply masochism on Hiro's part. Though I'd be lying if I said the idea didn't amuse me a bit.

It's mostly notable in that she appears to be "taking the lead" as it were.

edited 22nd Jan '18 6:26:34 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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Crasical Since: Jan, 2010
#171: Jan 23rd 2018 at 3:14:37 AM

I got legitimately confused by this series, just.... not being sure what was going on aside from the surface-level stuff of 'pilot academy for giant robots, sexual metaphors'.

I think part of it is jargon being fired off pretty quickly and I was having a lot of trouble grasping it quickly enough. Having had time for the episode to settle, I kind of want to re-watch it and see if I can handle it a little better this time.

klaxosaur are giant monsters, humanity lives in (mobile?) fortress-cities, or in space. FRANXX are giant robots, 'Pistil' is a female pilot, 'Stamen' is a male pilot, 'Parasite' seems to refer to pilots in general (and may not be a proper noun for the series?)... no, actually, I think I'm confusing myself again.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#173: Jan 23rd 2018 at 5:32:33 AM

Oh, so I'm not the only one who didn't get SM vibes from Hiro and 02 relationship. At no point it seemed to me like 02 was trying to dominate Hiro. Her attitude is playful and she's clearly smitten with him. The reason she takes the leading role is simply because she's the more experienced one, especially since all the kids in his squad are kept in the dark.

The reason others find their relationship so weird is probably because it's the only one based on actual feelings and attraction, instead of being administratively mandated.

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#174: Jan 23rd 2018 at 5:59:21 AM

I'd say the fact she's taller than he is contributes to the impression of domination.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#175: Jan 23rd 2018 at 1:29:47 PM

Hmm...okay, I was ready to kind of write this one off, but seeing your guys' thoughts on it, I do think the idea has potential, as far as metaphors go (though I feel like there's an air of pretension here that just kind of takes me out of it). At the moment, Icigo is the only character I like, but eh...if I can latch onto her, that might be enough. The fact that they're teenagers makes all the sex stuff kind of eh for me, though - I mean, that's an understandable age for all of this, but then you have all the Male Gaze and, well...

I'm still willing to give it a shot, and I'm more amused than offended, honestly, so we'll see how this goes. It might pull it off...but it also might drop the ball hard.

(Also, I'm rather surprised that they confirmed that Naomi survived off-screen. While I thought she had survived, I would have expected her to have been turned into a monster by the villains or something like that - it's cliché, sure, but it would have been something. This makes me think that they aren't interested in actually doing anything with her, which would be a shame, as I think you could do something with the rejected partner. Maybe they still will, though.)

edited 23rd Jan '18 1:31:31 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!

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