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Nightmare Fuel cleanup and maintenance

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It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:

1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.

2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).

3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.

And much more!

On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.

The TRS thread meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.

Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.

    Nightmare Fuel rules 
  • This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
    • Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
      • It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
      • You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
      • You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
    • With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
    • Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
  • Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
    • Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
  • Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
  • Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
    • If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
    • Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
  • Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
    • Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
    • Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
    • Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
  • Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
    • If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
    • Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
    • The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
  • Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
  • Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
  • Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.

Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:

  • Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
  • You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
  • Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.

Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM

ejmenendez Since: May, 2015
#5301: Apr 28th 2023 at 10:59:00 PM

Looking at the rest of the examples on the The Super Mario Bros. Movie page, and I feel most of the examples with Bowser seem to be over-exaggerating how scary the scenes actually are.

    The Examples 
  • Despite all the comedic moments he has, to say that Bowser was bit hard by the Adaptational Villainy bug would be a massive understatement. In general, this incarnation of Bowser is his darkest one to date, surpassing his depiction in the live-action film, Mario & Luigi: Dream Team and even Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam in terms of how ruthless and dead serious he is about taking out any and all obstacles in his way with lethal prejudice. I feel this one as a whole really exaggerates how threatening Bowser is here. Yeah he's definitely a meaner depiction of the Koopa King, but it's not to the point where he's exceedingly frightening like say the Wolf from Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. Bowser here is mostly an evil overlord who has a mix of being played for laughs and seriously depending on the scene.
    • For a start, his arrival in the Ice Land is heralded by his massive floating castle, and he alone simply wastes any resistance the penguins thought they could put up against him, demolishing their citadel in just seconds before taking the Super Star they held (Super Star as in the invincibility item and not the Power Star). And after that, he leaves almost all of Ice Land a smouldering ruin, prompting Peach to beseech the aid of the Kongs and their army. While the penguin king and all of his penguin followers living in the castle were merely captured and imprisoned, it's very likely that there were more penguins living outside the castle... Maybe keep. The first opening minutes does indeed showcase how big of a threat Bowser appears to be. Though definitely cut out the Fridge Horror about the penguins.
    • While Bowser's Villainous Crush on Peach is Played for Laughs, it also has a realistically disturbing element to it too. His supposed love for Peach comes off as more of a lustful, entitled obsession rather than genuine affection, which is evidenced by the fact that Bowser is willing to threaten the lives of her people and her kingdom through the torture of Toad if she doesn't agree to his marriage proposal, plus the fact that he is willing to kill her via incineration once she rejects him at the altar. All of this bring to mind how a lot of real, dangerously entitled individuals who take rejection as poorly as he did, to the point of taking the lives of others, much like how Tighten acted in Megamind. Cut out everything except for Toad's torture, as already discussed.
    • The interrogation of Luigi, anyone? The fact that he's doing it because the "other human" is impressing Peach already raises red flags, and in the end, makes him a prisoner, and even averts Never Say "Die" by explicitly threatening to murder Luigi as a way to spite Bowser's new enemy Mario; to whom he's a completely Unknown Rival at this point.
      Bowser: We'll see how tough this Mario is, when he watches me KILL HIS BROTHER!!!
      • The fact that the interrogation starts with Bowser putting his giant sharp claw to Luigi's throat should probably indicate that this interrogation won't go very well. And while Bowser's way of interrogating Luigi is pretty silly what with him pulling out Luigi's mustache hairs in order to make him talk, the fact that Bowser gets progressively more and more genuinely angry and louder as the interrogation continues also makes the scene rather uncomfortable. Leaning towards cut. While it does show Bowser's cruelty, Luigi getting his mustache pulled is hardly worth losing any sleep over.
      Bowser: DO YOU KNOW HIM?!
    • In the games, he is a Benevolent Boss. Here? Averted big time. This iteration of the Koopa King is not the best of kings for his soldiers, burning one to the bone just for speaking out of turn and having some others chained up with other prisoners. That's not to mention that more Dry Bones are seen outside of the castle before Mario and Luigi even arrived in the Mushroom Kingdom. Cut. Bowser being a Bad Boss to his men is clearly played for laughs, especially since the Koopa that was burned into a Dry Bones is still very much alive (for a skeleton of course). His own soldiers being prisoners seems to be more Fridge Horror.
    • While the Koopa General provides the intelligence report of Mario and the others taking the shortcut, Bowser himself concocts an ambush. You read that right, he and his forces outsmart Peach and Cranky when they take Rainbow Road back to the Mushroom Kingdom. Definite cut. How is Bowser planning an ambush scary? It shows him being strategic, yes, but that's not really frightening on its own.
    • While Kamek does the torture work with Toad, it was Bowser's idea to coerce Peach into marrying him, something his previous game iterations have never done. Keep, but definitely expand. The scene is surprisingly dark as it shows Toad clearly being in pain from Kamek's magic. This being from Bowser's orders does show a more darker side of what was previously shown from the film.
    • And finally, his Moral Event Horizon, the wedding sacrifice. He intends to drop all of his prisoners (Luigi included) into the lava as part of some sick ritual of his declaration of love. Luigi's own cage was already half-submerged by the time he was rescued. Thank goodness Peach is one hell of an ass-kicker and Mario had the Tanooki power-up. Unsure. On one hand, Bowser dropping the prisoners in lava to impress Peach is sort of played for laughs, with it being implied that Bowser genuinely thought Peach would like it. On the other hand, he was incredibly close to actually killing them, with Luigi's cell actually dipping into the lava all the way to the floor. That could actually be scary.
    • When she rejects his love, he decides to call off the wedding, by attacking Peach with the same fire breath that he used to demolish the penguins' castle in Ice Land. Seeing Peach enjoying Mario's company, and being rejected, finally pushed him into very dangerous territories.
      • How dangerous? Bowser's terrifying line will tell you! Leaning towards cut. While it shows him getting serious, especially since he orders the Bomber Bill to be fired, I'm not sure how scary this part is considered to be.
        Bowser: LAUNCH THE BOMBER BILL AND DESTROY THE MUSHROOM KINGDOM!!!!!!
    • About that Bomber Bill... It's treated as the equivalent of a nuclear missile. That's right, Bowser was going to nuke the Mushroom Kingdom as a backup plan. Thankfully, it doesn't hit the kingdom, but it does cross between worlds, resulting in a lot of characters going into Brooklyn. The Bomber Bill I can probably see being considered scary as it's not only basically a nuclear bomb, but it's also sentient and knowingly chases after Mario after the latter stops him. However, the Bill has a section on the page already dedicated to itself so this example here is rather redundant.
    • Bowser's final battle with Mario in Brooklyn is absolutely terrifying as we get to see how dangerous Bowser can be when in an Unstoppable Rage. All of this is gushing about how scary and serious Bowser is here. But in all honesty, the only thing I feel like is worth keeping is Bowser being incredibly furious with Mario and giving him and Donkey Kong a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown. That part was a rather tense moment as Bowser was incredibly vicious in beating the heroes before Mario and Luigi get the Power Star. Leaning towards merging the examples into one.
      • Bowser is commonly depicted as a Lightning Bruiser, though isn't the fastest character by any stretch. However, he is terrifyingly fast here, and outmaneuvers the smaller Mario in every way on top of being strong enough to punch him miles away and throw rocks into cars. Put simply; imagine Godzilla's frenzied state of rage from Godzilla vs. Kong and stuff it into a monstrous, jealous tyrant who, while still towering, would only be the size of his ankle.
      • In general, Bowser's interaction and fight with Mario during his Villainous Breakdown in Brooklyn comes across as scary due to just how personal it feels. Bowser, despite not knowing much of this man in red and blue overalls, clearly absolutely hates him for "ruining" his morbidly evil wedding with Peach despite it clearly being justified, but he doesn't care because of how damn much he thinks of only himself and now that his chance of forcefully marrying Peach is ruined, he now has a true arch-nemesis to blame and despise with all of his malice and now Mario is left to deal with this evil psychopathic monster.
        Bowser: MARIOOOOOO!!!! You want this?! YOU RUINED MY WEDDING! I WAS FINALLY GONNA BE HAPPY!!! NOW YOU WILL SUFFER... LIKE ME!!!!!!
      • If you look closely while he’s delivering his savage beat down to Mario, you can see that Bowser's usual red eyes are now glowing with rage.
      • Donkey Kong tries to fight Bowser and save Mario only for Bowser to easily overpower the Kong. Had Mario not gotten his Heroic Second Wind, Bowser would've killed him.
      • Bowser, even after getting a double Megaton Punch from Mario and Luigi after they beat him to the Super Star, refuses to back down. How obsessed is he with taking down these two men who have ruined his chance of destruction? He proceeds to sic his entire army on the brothers, making it abundantly clear that he wants them dead.
        Bowser: RIP THEM TO PIECES!!!

Also worth noting, there is a problem with the example indentation as there are a few stray third bullet examples here as well as most of the bullets being written as to refer to the previous examples, reading like one big example, which isn't really approved of on TV Tropes.

AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#5302: Apr 29th 2023 at 6:41:16 AM

[up][tup]

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
Fireball246 Since: Jan, 2023
#5303: Apr 29th 2023 at 1:30:07 PM

Edited by Fireball246 on Apr 29th 2023 at 2:02:42 AM

AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#5304: Apr 29th 2023 at 2:14:40 PM

~Fireball246 keeps readding stuff to the Mario Movie NF whenever we cut it, including a little bit just now, though fortunately not even most of what got cut this time.

Edit: they have barely done any edits not related to the Mario movie or games (maybe like 3 Transformers edits and 1 Sonic Movie edit and that's it) and almost all their edits as of the past few days have been on the nightmare fuel subpage for the movie specifically, so I'm suspecting single issue wonk.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Apr 29th 2023 at 5:20:58 AM

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
Fireball246 Since: Jan, 2023
#5305: Apr 29th 2023 at 2:55:19 PM

Edited by Fireball246 on Apr 29th 2023 at 5:31:20 AM

AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#5306: Apr 30th 2023 at 2:15:19 PM

Aaaaand Francis got readded by someone separate who said in the edit reason that they have a dog phobia and it scared them. We need to concretely figure out just what exactly is staying and what is leaving on NightmareFuel.The Super Mario Bros Movie, because at this point it is just a big pile of edit wars.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on Apr 30th 2023 at 5:17:26 AM

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#5307: Apr 30th 2023 at 2:23:16 PM

At this point, I'm probably just gonna request a lock.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5308: Apr 30th 2023 at 2:26:15 PM

Honestly at this point I'm wondering if examples should even be allowed at all on Nightmare Fuel/we even want to have this item around. The misuse is staggering, we routinely get mocked offsite for the kind of items that end up here, and there are constant battles and Edit Wars over what is and isn't allowed. This is a valid concept (as I attested to over on the meta thread in Yack Fest), and I don't actually want to gut it all yet, but I kind of wonder if this site just flat out can't handle having it around. We gutted Troper Tales and Fetish Fuel, after all, and those (while much worse) were also leading to offsite drama and problems despite being popular. I know I'm not alone either—I remember Willbyr at one point expressing similar feelings about NF.

Is anything I'm saying valid, or am I overreacting and we can handle having this?

EDIT: Retracted

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on May 2nd 2023 at 2:39:51 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#5309: Apr 30th 2023 at 2:32:58 PM

I feel the Francis scene doesn't count. I also feel that page might need to be locked, at least for now.

Fireball246 Since: Jan, 2023
#5310: Apr 30th 2023 at 3:21:33 PM

I fixed it. I got rid of the Francis, Fridge Horror, and Played for Laughs examples. We don’t need to resort to locking the page at least not permanently.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#5311: Apr 30th 2023 at 3:24:03 PM

[up][up][up] I think you're overreacting. Most misuse is obvious enough to be cut if you don't use the pages as a personal dumping ground, which can be said for most Moments and YMMV pages. Troper Tales wasn't even about the content of media so little of value was lost by cutting it, and Fetish Fuel was way too TMI. It's not comparable to Moments misuse in terms of severity.

People will make fun of TV Tropes for everything. Are we gonna appeal to them, or are we gonna appeal to our own standards?

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 30th 2023 at 6:25:07 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5312: Apr 30th 2023 at 3:52:06 PM

[up] Yeah you’re right. Admittedly I haven’t been in the best mood today so I wasn’t in a good place when I wrote that. Apologies.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#5313: May 1st 2023 at 1:40:53 AM

I mean to be fair, as you yourself said it is a legit concept. I honestly feel like "unintentionally scary" and "intentionally scary" should be separated though to be honest. Like the 5 AM theme in Animal Crossing New Leaf? Unintentionally scary. That jumpscare in Phoenix Wright Dual Destinies involving 11 year old Athena covered in blood? Intentionally scary.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#5314: May 1st 2023 at 6:08:58 AM

Is anything I'm saying valid, or am I overreacting and we can handle having this?

I've wanted to kill NF pages for a long time so I'm right there with you.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#5315: May 1st 2023 at 7:52:03 AM

What are we supposed to do, then? Make another TRS thread?

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#5316: May 1st 2023 at 8:14:35 AM

[up][up][up] That's how it used to be (with Accidental Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel), but both were merged a while ago. I think it's because to some extent, it's hard to define what is and isn't intentional. What about, for example, a villain in a children's show who's meant to be mildly threatening, sometimes Played for Laughs but still treated as dangerous? Is that accidental because they're only meant to be a little scary, or is it intentional because it's meant to be scary at all?

Edited by Zuxtron on May 1st 2023 at 11:14:45 AM

sudrictoon Any pronouns from Sodor/Crystal Tokyo Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Any pronouns
#5317: May 2nd 2023 at 7:40:50 AM

I'm also in favor of deleting Nightmare Fuel. It's caused us nothing but trouble. EDIT: Or at the very least, make it like Magnificent Bastard and Complete Monster so that we have to have threads discussing what counts as NF.

Edited by sudrictoon on May 2nd 2023 at 10:41:55 AM

Sinners are TRASH / And they are A**HOLES
AlmightyKingPrawn I can chase the wind, I can race the rain from Down at Fraggle Rock *clap clap* Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: I love you for psychological reasons
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
#5318: May 2nd 2023 at 8:56:13 AM

I'd be for more regulation for nightmare fuel rather than a cut. The concept isn't bad, just users continuing to make bad entries. Something like Complete Monster. Nightmare Fuel is a pretty big draw to the site so I'd rather it not be completely cut.

Edited by AlmightyKingPrawn on May 2nd 2023 at 11:58:47 AM

She/her. Profile pic is by Richard Michael Gomez @StarmansArt. Please watch Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock. https://youtu.be/Vm92JNgPbqk
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#5319: May 2nd 2023 at 9:13:18 AM

Yeah. I honestly favor regulation.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5320: May 2nd 2023 at 11:31:34 AM

I also favor regulation. As I said, I wasn't in a good mood when I wrote my original comment.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#5321: May 2nd 2023 at 11:37:18 AM

Complete Monster is more about narrative intent than Nightmare Fuel so I don't think effort posting would be fair. Too many people would be like "well that shouldn't count because it doesn't scare me" regardless of how many people it's been reported to scare offsite.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5322: May 2nd 2023 at 11:38:07 AM

For clarification, when I said "regulation" I didn't mean like CM or MB regulation. I meant like "continue the cleanup thread" regulation.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#5323: May 2nd 2023 at 12:08:46 PM

But we already have the cleanup thread. What exactly do you propose?

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#5324: May 2nd 2023 at 12:10:51 PM

[up] To not take drastic action like I had originally proposed?

I’m not wording myself well. I already retracted my original position, I’m not advocating for anything right now. I’m sorry if I’m confusing everyone.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on May 2nd 2023 at 3:12:54 PM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#5325: May 3rd 2023 at 12:00:46 AM

I'm in favor of regulation for NF personally.


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