Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
She / Her
Judging from my memory of that episode (and from the entries), those are more so Nausea Fuel instead.
The page for Avengers: Infinity War has these two entries:
- Despite being villains with minor roles, the Black Order are the film's supporting protagonists as Thanos is the MVP. Audience members usually applauded their deaths, essentially cheering when the Avengers murdered the film's "good guys". Infinity War actually got the audience to cheer for the "bad guys".
- From Thanos' perspective, the events of the film are rather foreboding. He knows he's marching into probably his most dangerous mission and initially opted to avoid Earth, likely to avoid Iron Man, whom he feared. While not really afraid of his opposition, his almost loss of the battle on Titan visibly scared him. He also was forced to sacrifice the one thing he loved (aside himself), Gamora, thus confronting a terrifying truth he would be alone and unloved forever. Additionally, in his warped, obsessed mind, the entire universe will become a barren wasteland like Titan unless he succeeds, and his return to his devastated homeworld clearly unnerved the Mad Titan. Nonetheless, Thanos proved brave enough to push past these insecurities, but still ended up alone.
I don't think either of these fits the trope, and they come off as Draco in Leather Pants. Should these be cut?
The first one in particular seems really bad. The movie frames Thanos as a Villain Protagonist to some extent; it does not do so for his minions.
It's Fridge, anyway. Even if they were framed as the protagonists, that doesn't mean that "cheering for the antagonists" is inherently horrifying.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallThirded on the first one; I don't find it horrifying, though I'm biased since I semi-frequently root for villains (albeit more so depending on the characters).
As for the second, I guess it sounds more like Jerkass Woobie.
It does, if you agree that Thanos is tragic. Now, I personally find him to be a boring and overhyped character, but that's just me and I know that a lot of people do sympathize with his motives.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
This was added to NightmareFuel.Death Battle:
- Vegito vs. Gogeta:
- The Stardust breaker is a vicious attack, seeking out any trace of evil in its target and disintegrating it utterly. After the battle, we see the aftermath of the attack: Vegito is dripping blood, has wounds all over his body, and barely has energy left to give his counterpart a final sendoff. Because Gogeta's final Dragon Fist never connected, every wound here must come from the preceding Stardust Breaker - and this is what it does to a fusion of two good guys, one of which has proven to be Incorruptible Pure Pureness incarnate.. and yet that's not enough as far as the Stardust Breaker is concerned; every bit of evil in Vegito was just forcefully purged, and it's a good thing that Vegito has been shown to not be affected by missing otherwise vital parts of his body, because his insides are putting swiss cheese to shame in the hole department after the final bout.
This is a HUGE overexaggeration. There are a few small drips of blood at the start of the scene, and Vegito has a few bruises and scratches on him. This makes it sound like he's been horribly mutilated and dismembered. Overall, the scene is very tame by the show's standards. I have no idea where the description that "his insides are putting swiss cheese to shame in the hole department" is coming from, that's not at all what the episode shows.
EDIT: I decided to remove it due to the blatant inaccuracies in the text.
Edited by Zuxtron on Dec 26th 2022 at 12:07:14 PM
Doing a once over on NightmareFuel.Spooky Month:
- The amount of shady characters in Skid's and Pump's town who prey on children is worryingly high. From serial kidnappers like Frank and Mr. Clown, to sexual predators like Roy's uncle, to demonic entities like Moloch, to homicidal maniacs like Dexter and Bob, Skid and Pump are outright lucky to still be alive. General example, not inherently scary
- Unlike the more humorous shorts advertising the original plushies and the shirts, the short
for the second edition of the plushies has Skid and Pump watch an advertisement on TV inspired by Halloween III, featuring a frightening, flickering "glitch witch" as a circus-like tone plays in the background. Lila walks into the living room and discovers the two have been turned into dolls, before noticing the witch on the TV. She's caught staring into her eyes as the tone quickens and distorts, camera closing in on one of the witch's bloodshot eyes to reveal Skid and Pump staring back at her, flickering in and out. The very last frame shows Lila now in the spot between them, and the short just ends. I wrote this example so I can't comment on it, but I believe I asked if it was okay on this thread last year and got the okay for it, so.
- Before Skid is revealed to be a Cheerful Child, he's first shown with his Face Framed in Shadow, seemingly with a Slasher Smile, all while a deathly chime echoes in the background. Do Bait and Switches count? If so, keep
- Lila's Establishing Character Moment has her being held at knifepoint by Bob Velseb, all while begging for Skid to call 911. It becomes even worse in hindsight, since "Tender Treats" reveals that Bob is a Serial Killer who was actually trying to kill her. In this short, the moment immediately loses all horror once Skid reminds them it's Spooky Month. Cut
- Skid goes to tell his grandma that it's Spooky Month... only for his grandma to be revealed as a rotting corpse sitting in a chair. I could see how she would be scary, but imo there's not enough detail to it, and again the moment is instantly made humorous
- Roy's claim that the house on the hill is where his uncle takes him has some rather disturbing implications behind it, not helped by Robert and Ross Backing Away Slowly at this claim. Fridge Horror
- When Skid and Pump arrive at the house on the hill, Roy's uncle finds them, and proceeds to attempt to rape Skid and Pump. The two even point out how messed up this is. Valid, but needs to be rewritten (hate playing Devil's Advocate here but it's never actually elaborated what Roy's uncle was planning to do to them)
Skid: This is not spooky! It's scary!
- The Eyes of the Universe. ...It's hard to even describe it. It's as if Mother Brain was transformed into a Lovecraftian horror, complete with a Voice of the Legion. Granted, Skid and Pump do befriend it, but that doesn't stop them from going out and hypnotizing the entire town. All horror in its debut appearance is immediately cut short because Skid and Pump befriend it.
Eyes: Always look at the stars.
- Dexter seems to be a silly guy at first, but then he drops hints of how he got a job as an exterminator to indiscriminately kill all the animals he wants, with cats being at the top of his hit list. It's treated as a joke here. Cut
Dexter: With this, I will satisfy my needs! (Evil Laugh)
- Just when it seemed like Moloch was an Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain, he proceeds to possess Dexter, forcing him to undergo horrific changes like giving him glowing yellow eyes, a Lamprey Mouth, and horns. Then he attempts to attack Lila for no discernible reason (aside from being Skid's mom), threatening to torture and mutilate Lila without killing her. And then he finally confronts Skid and Pump, threatening to burn their skin and feast on their flesh. And given how powerful he was, Moloch could've easily made good on all of those vicious threats, had Pump not dared him to turn his head around to prove that he's a real demon. This is just a summary. I could see Moloch initially possessing Dexter and Moloch chasing Lila as separate examples though, since those are played for horror.
- Dexter returns, this time through possessing the Happy Fella doll. He ups the ante through plotting to murder Skid, Pump, and Lila for everything that happened in the last episode. Summary. Cut
Dexter: I'm tired! I'm tired of you two! Your Spooky Month and that dumb dance! I've been trying to fulfill my needs, and you always stop me! (while pulling his hair) I CAN'T HANDLE IT ANYMOOOOORE!!! And, you! (points to Lila) You should've bought the damn cat when your son told you to!
- It's not just those three Dexter attempts to kill, either. After being confiscated by the police, Dexter enters the holding cells, and attempts to stab the goofy burglars, and after causing a blackout at the Candy Club, he engages Kevin in battle and actually manages to stab him in the leg. Considering he had never met any of these people prior to this episode, it speaks volumes to how Ax-Crazy Dexter is. Summary. Again, him attacking the thieves and Kevin could work as separate examples, but as is, cut.
- Roy goes from simple schoolyard bullying to outright endangering Skid and Pump. In order to give them back the Happy Fella doll, he tells them that he wants their sweaters, all while it's freezing cold with snow, and the two reluctantly oblige. Skid and Pump could've gotten hypothermia had it not been for Susie giving them blankets and hot cocoa. Fridge Horror and looking far too into a joke
- The chase throughout Lila's house is heart-pounding, due to the fact that Dexter is a Super-Persistent Predator who always knows where to look. Even with Skid and Pump blowing raspberries at him, it doesn't stop Lila or Dexter from taking the situation as seriously as possible. Valid?
- The way Dexter dies. Lila stabs him in the head with a knife, which Dexter just shrugs off, but then Skid and Pump shove him into the oven, and Lila sets it to max heat, causing Dexter to burn alive. Even though he completely got what was coming to him, it's still a horrific way to go. Ehh... I could see it, but it needs to be rewritten, as it's a summary focused on the characters' reactions and not the audience's.
- Bob Velseb, the murderer guy from the first video, returns, and now he's basically what would happen if Dexter was actually successful in killing anybody. He's noted to have killed people every Halloween, and has killed more and more each year. This year, he's already offed eight people by the time the mayor tells John and Jack to catch him. Every prior episode (barring "Unwanted Guest" and "Deadly Smiles", which don't take place on Halloween) feels a bit more tense when you know that a violent serial killer is out there. Summary. The parenthesized part isn't even correct, as Bob was shortly caught after his appearance in the first episode and was in jail during the second, third, and fourth.
- Once again, Lila is alone with the antagonist, trying to escape Bob's reach. Luckily, the police arrive, but when she has them go head for the attic to cut Bob off, he's gone. All they can do is tell her to keep the doors and windows locked, even though her kid is outside and in danger. Summary
- Skid and Pump head for a haunted house, meeting a fake vampire greeter. He has some spooky fun with the boys, using mirrors and green screens to hide his reflection, before sending them through. When Bob shows up, though, he kills the greeter, and goes through the haunted house while eating part of his body. When exiting, Skid and Pump get to see his dying body, with his visibly terrified eyes still moving and focusing on the two kids, but they just brush it off as particularly realistic effects and can't figure out that a murderer is following them. Valid, probably gonna rewrite it
- Bob proves way too tough to kill, surviving several bullet wounds and getting run over, still gunning to kill Skid, Pump, Lila and Jaune. It takes running him over multiple times to finally stop him. Summary
- An additional detail is that when Bob is climbing onto the car using his knives, Skid and Pump are actually screaming in fear along with Lila and Jaune as they now actually see Bob as a threat. Bad indentation and focuses on character reactions
- The initial ending for "Tender Treats" has Lila showing Skid photos of how she celebrated Halloween when she was his age. Suddenly, Skid asks if Lila also played hide-and-seek with someone and points to a man in the photo standing behind her. Lila is then visibly horrified as she realizes the man in the photo looks like Bob Velseb and rips the picture in half. She tries telling herself they're not the same guy, and then the episode slowly darkens while highlighting the man's smiling face... Maybe?
Only a few actually good examples, and others that would require heavy rewrites. Thoughts?
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢Since Accidental Nightmare Fuel is Fan Speak, should this entry from YMMV.Its A Small World be moved to Nightmare Fuel or cut?
- Accidental Nightmare Fuel: The ride itself is certainly not meant to be creepy or terrifying in any sense (quite the opposite actually). However, various factors, such as the hundreds of dolls, a song that tends to constantly loop and the appearance of the clocktower, have given the ride a reputation for being unintentionally creepy. Disney themselves have played with the idea of the ride being creepy at least once.
Wait since when is ANF Fan Speak only? I feel like if we moved everything from Accidental to the regular NF, we would get even more bashing, because NF is for things that are supposed to be scary and succeed at being scary, while ANF is more things that are scary on accident.
Sinners are TRASH / And they are A**HOLES![]()
From what I can tell, Accidental Nightmare Fuel has been that for years.
Do we need NightmareFuel.Hong Kong 97?
- First two examples seem valid, though I question how intentional the scariness was.
- Third is okay-ish.
- Fourth is Fridge Horror.
- Fifth is a stretch.
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I'm unsure about the last one, though I agree the fourth is more so Fridge Horror. However, I feel the first three do count.
As for whether or not it should be a page, I don't think it's lengthy enough to warrant one.
The page on SiIvaGunner has an example that has a working link to a Caillou video that was removed from the channel for possibly having footage of real child abuse, should we prohibit links to this like we do with the harlequin baby incident?
I'm also a bit bothered by the description where it just takes the fact that one of the clips in the video could have been children in actual harm and describes it as an "oh, by the way, this is something that happened" that's just tacked onto the end.
Oh lord I remember that video. I think links should be prohibited for the record—even if it isn't a child abuse video, we should not take chances.
