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Nightmare Fuel cleanup and maintenance

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Jul 7th 2018 at 6:59:29 PM

This was added to NightmareFuel.Steven Universe in reaction to a promo for future episodes:

Future Episodes

  • Blue is surprised that there any Gems left on Earth as she assumed that the power beam sent by her, Yellow, and White obliterated every Gem left on the planet. That's right, the Diamonds were merely try to kill the Crystal Gems (and any Homeworld soldier who couldn't reach a ship or warp pad in time) and instead created hundreds, possibly thousands of monsters by sheer accident! She and Yellow have no idea about them, until the gang introduces them to Eyeball.

I'm having a hard time understanding which part of this is trying to convey fear. The fact that the beam corrupted Gems is already listed, so it seems to be saying that what's scary is that it wasn't as strong as it was meant to be, merely corrupting its victims instead of destroying them. Am I reading this incorrectly?

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Jul 9th 2018 at 8:59:39 AM

Grammatical errors aside, seems like it runs solely on Speculative Troping. Cut it.

Anyone else have a comment on the Gundam Build Divers page?

Jul 9th 2018 at 9:01:59 PM

Just came back from seeing The Incredibles 2, and I think that the Nightmare Fuel page for that movie has some more stuff that needs cutting aside from that logo joke that was brought up a while ago:

  • During Jack-Jack's battle with the raccoon, the latter is tangled in lawn chairs during the climax of their fight. Jack-Jack combusts and menacingly approaches his captured foe. Thank goodness the raccoon managed to escape with its life.
    The whole raccoon fight was Played for Laughs. I seriously doubt anyone had bad dreams about it.
  • When Edna sees Jack-Jack has powers, her smile is horrifying... It's moments like these that remind you she's essentially a mad scientist, even though she's a good guy.
    Just another "character makes a slightly creepy face" type of Nightmare Fuel for which I've previously expressed disdain. As mentioned, Edna is on the side of good. Nothing about that scene is remotely frightening.
  • While most of the powers featured are Played for Laughs, there is some subtle Body Horror involved.
    • Elastigirl’s stretching abilities, as awesome as they are, border on Uncanny Valley with Elastigirl able to stretch and contort her body in different shapes. While riding on the motorbike specifically built for her abilities, her stretching ability is creepy to say the least.
    • Krushauser is able to crush things with telekinesis, which makes one wonder: Did he break the ONE rule that most mainstream superheroes follow while in hiding? Even if the villain was evil enough to deserve it? Now just imagine being slowly crushed to death by this one hero, knowing that there is no way out....
    • Jack-Jack setting himself on fire with his Human Torch inspired ability is horrifying at best, but when combined with his Hulk looking form, he looks like a very angry demon that would make Hellboy nod in approval. Beware the Nice Ones, indeed.
      • Let’s not forget that Jack Jack is considered a “polymorph” (a Super with multiple powers). While he is on the side of good, what will happen if he gets older? Then what? Jack Jack can basically be a One-Man Army with nothing being able to stop him...
    • Reflux, while he is a kind old man, can belch out molten lava on those either brave (or foolish) enough to get in his way. With the ability to belch out lava and while under Evelyn’s control, he looks like a very angry dragon.
      This is all blatant exaggerations. I'm pretty sure whoever added this to the page wasn't actually frightened, they were just trying to pad out the page to make the movie look Darker and Edgier than it actually is. Krushauser's entry in particular is pure speculation.
  • Violet’s angry expression upon discovering that Rick Dicker memory wiped her crush gives off vibes similar to Sadako\Samara of The Ring or the monster from The Grudge film series with her long hair draping over her face. This just shows that while Violet is a Nice Girl, she still has her moments of rage.
    And another angry face. Seriously, if you have nightmares every time a fictional character gets angry, you need to get help.

gjjones Musician/Composer from Amherst, New York
Jul 9th 2018 at 10:40:43 PM

All right. I've removed the raccoon battle entries, as well as the ones with Edna and Jack-Jack, and Violet and Rick. Hope this works.

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Jul 10th 2018 at 7:15:50 AM

Krushauser in particular is a thousand percent Fridge Logic. Jesus.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Jul 10th 2018 at 7:17:33 AM

The Incredibles 2 page highlights just how misused this "trope" is, adding more fuel to my desire to completely remove it.

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Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Jul 10th 2018 at 7:24:41 AM

I mean, there are plenty of valid examples on the page. But I think Zuxtron really hit it on the nose when he said "pad the page to make the movie look Darker and Edgier." And seriously, the Elastigirl/motorcycle entry is basically admitting it's misuse, calling it "creepy."

Just like the Gundam Build Divers page I mentioned here, I feel like people look for things they can manage to warp into sounding scary to make their preferred work sound cooler. It's like people see Nightmare Fuel as a badge of honor, kinda like Complete Monster and do everything they can to shoehorn it in.

Edited by Larkmarn on Jul 10th 2018 at 10:27:03 AM

Jul 10th 2018 at 7:38:01 AM

I removed bad example indentation from that page, some of which was also Fridge Horror.

Fighteer, I think when you say "trope" in quotation marks the term you're looking for is Audience Reaction.

I'll take it every one of you agree with removing the part that's trying to make Elastigirl, Jack-Jack, and Reflux sound scary?

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Jul 10th 2018 at 7:47:02 AM

Aaaaand it's gone. I think that does it for the blatantly non-scary things on the page.

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Jul 10th 2018 at 7:48:42 AM

I still feel like it's over-the-top, given the Screen-Slaver bits are more or less a freaking play-by-play of every moment that character is on-screen, but it's definitely a lot better.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Jul 10th 2018 at 7:51:38 AM

Being mind controlled and forced to fight your own family is intense, yes, but whom exactly does it give nightmares to?

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Jul 10th 2018 at 8:05:27 AM

It certainly doesn't scare me, but at least I can imagine someone, somewhere finding it frightening.

Then again, perhaps being exposed to so much misuse of Nightmare Fuel has twisted my perception of what people actually find scary.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Jul 10th 2018 at 8:50:51 AM

That's sort of the thing, though. Everything, even fluffy kittens, is frightening to someone, somewhere. That cannot be criteria for Nightmare Fuel or it might as well get blanked and replaced with a flat statement.

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Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Jul 10th 2018 at 10:41:20 AM

I think the mind control thing is more Adult Fear than Nightmare Fuel.

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Jul 10th 2018 at 12:11:35 PM

... good lord, no. Adult Fear is supposed to be realistic fears that are applicable in real life. Anything mind-control related is about as far from Adult Fear as you can get.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Jul 10th 2018 at 1:04:12 PM

Adult Fear is heavily misused to shoehorn in Nightmare Fuel on the main page though... It's used as "look how bad this bad thing in this work is" most of the time imo.

Jul 10th 2018 at 2:19:30 PM

Can I get a second opinion on NightmareFuel.Kingdom Hearts III? The entire page is hardly even ominous, and the game isn't even out, so how valid are any of the examples? Some "scary" standouts:

  • The game on the whole seems to be much more deadly serious in tone. In spite of its bright colors, the actions of the villains seem much more like No-Nonsense Nemesis territory. The Xehanorts are revving up for their endgame, Malificent is looking for an immensely powerful artifact, and the Heartless and Nobodies now seem to be much more active. (translated: The game has a slightly more serious tone than previous entries)
  • The scythe-wielding Nobodies found in Corona. They look very pretty, especially with the flower petals, but as stated on Marluxia's character page, those flowers - along with the color white - are symbols of death in Japan. They seem cloaked in hoods as well, incorporating that Western influence, so basically, Grim Reapers are regular enemies in this game. (translated: There is a two-second clip of enemies who display some vague death imagery but don't actually do anything)
  • The Pirates of the Caribbean trailer also gave us the unsettling image of Seeker of Darkness Ansem and Xemnas speaking in perfect unison right before they do... something with the darkness. Whatever it is, it doesn't look pleasant. (translated: Two villains say one line in unison then [to my eyes, anyway] probably just open a portal)
  • MONSTERS, INC. IS LITERALLY ON FIRE. Thanks to the chaos that the Unversed are causing, the whole facility is ablaze, making for a very intense scene. (translated: A building is on fire because of two Bulborbs)

Honestly, I feel like the entire page just needs to be deleted. The page lists basically everything we currently know about the villains and their actions—i.e. anything that could be scary...and they're not scary at all.

Edited by urutapu on Jul 10th 2018 at 2:45:35 AM

Jul 10th 2018 at 3:01:33 PM

[up] Kingdom Hearts III was brought up a while ago, but nothing was done about it.

Among the examples you've listed, the first one fails Examples Are Not General. Second one sounds only vaguely eerie, and even then only if you understand the subtle symbolism. The other two also don't sound scary at all. In general, I'm always very wary of Nightmare Fuel based on unreleased content, since Trailers Always Lie and something that seems like it could be scary might very well end up harmless in the final product.

Another problem is that nearly every single example on that page suffers from bad indentation.

Also, is it just me, or is the page's image literally just a normal person's face? Apparently she's suffering from a case of Demonic Possession, but it really doesn't show. Seems like a case of Just a Face and a Caption in my opinion.

Here's my opinion on some other examples:

    open/close all folders 
    Kingdom Hearts III 
  • In the Story Demo of the Toy Box world (for Toy Story), Andy, his Mom, and much of the cast of toys are nowhere to be seen with the small group remaining (Woody, Buzz, The Army Men, Little Green Men, Rex and Hamm) to fend off the constantly spawning Heartless combing their master's room.
    • The Heartless are explicitly stated to have started appearing after they all began to disappear, anyone who knows how the Heartless operate are sure to have a little red flag raise in their mind when they hear Buzz's statement.
      First point is just describing that the heroes are in trouble. I'm not familiar with the game, but I imagine that by the time you've cleared that level, thing will be going better for them. Second point sounds like Fridge Horror.
  • The first time you fight any of the bigger toy Heartless enemies, there's a bit of dread added to the scenario:
    • The first fight involving The Gigas mecha toys. Sora and Co. note how they aren't moving, and witness Young Xehanort demonstrate a Mook Heartless getting into the cockpit and taking it over. Afterwords, Buzz point it out to Woody almost referencing it like a corpse, which Woody responds to appropriately to with unease. It works under pretense of Organization 13 forcibly ripping the hearts of toys away somehow in such a way that the body of the toy is normal, but is a hollow shell, and can be controlled by Heartless. In essence, they're trying to figure out how a proper Soul Jar will work to finish their ranks.
    • Rex is kidnapped mysteriously during the above mentioned fight, and Sora and Co. go to save him. They walk into the section they think he's in and Woody sees a tail disappear around a corner with huge sounding footsteps. Thinking its Rex, he rounds the corner only to find nobody is there. Sora hears something, and then a giant, threatening, centurion dinosaur toy heartless crashes through a wall of boxes. Not only does the thing move like an actual kind of toy, stiff movement being a result of a preset pose, but it also leaves a bad feeling about what happened to Rex.
    • The doll boss that gets possessed by Heartless, called the "Mysterious Onyx." By the look of the screenshots, she appears to have glowing yellow eyes and towers over the whole party.
      As I mentioned last time this was brought up, "a little bit of dread" is not enough to qualify as Nightmare Fuel. First sub-bullet is about a character reaction, not an Audience Reaction. Second sounds pretty weak, and that last bit is speculation. Third could qualify, but the image in that link is very low-quality which makes it hard to tell how creepy it truly is, and the description is also lacking in detail: being big with yellow eyes isn't automatically scary.
  • Vanitas is even creepier in this game than he was in Birth by Sleep. Here, he tries to physically touch Sora's face before Sora slaps his hand away.
    • Vanitas has also been one of the few original character villains to interact with the inhabitants of Disney Worlds, and each time has been tense and dangerous. You have to wonder whether or not he would hurt Boo to get what he wants...
    • According to Nomura, Vanitas has been resurrected, rather than brought through time... the thing he didn't specify is what body he was resurrected in! Is he Vanitas... or Venitas and in Ven's body?
      First point is just touching someone's face. Not scary. Second and third points are both Fridge Horror and speculation.
  • MONSTERS, INC. IS LITERALLY ON FIRE. Thanks to the chaos that the Unversed are causing, the whole facility is ablaze, making for a very intense scene.
    • The fact that the Unversed are back! As if the Heartless aren't enough, the Unversed may arguably be just as dangerous in malevolence, and inclination towards violence.
    • Vanitas reveals that he is using the Unversed to scare and traumatize children so he can gather their scream energy. God knows what the Unversed were doing to those poor children.
      • To elaborate: the Heartless, while not completely mindless as Saïx describes, don't discriminate when it comes to their targets. The Unversed, on the other hand, are negative emotions given physical form, specifically VANITAS' negative emotions. They actively seek to cause pain and misery, because all they know is pain and misery. Think of it like: The Heartless want to kill swiftly and take their heart, in the name of increasing their numbers, or if someone orders them to, similar to just barely living weapons.
        You already mentioned the top-level bullet, but the poorly indented sub-bullets that should be their own examples are also very weak. First one just says that they could "arguably" be just as dangerous, and doesn't explain anything about what the Unversed are or why we should be scared of them. Second could qualify once the game is out, but right now it's just speculation. Final bullet point violates Repair, Don't Respond.
  • Larxene being back is scary enough on its own, but she makes it very clear that she intends to lead Elsa into darkness. The implications are incredibly dark when you think about it: we all remember Larxene's treatment of Namine, it was horrible, and that was when they were both Nobodies—they didn't have hearts. Elsa's magic is shown to be extremely dangerous, and powerful, and considering her already damaged psyche, and how Larxene loves mind games... Let's just say it's a good thing Sora and co showed up when they did.
    • You also have to figure that Xehanort had probably watched and scouted her out personally as a potential... something. The implications are quite chilling.
      This whole thing sounds like speculation and Fridge Horror.
  • The Pirates of the Caribbean trailer also gave us the unsettling image of Seeker of Darkness Ansem and Xemnas speaking in perfect unison right before they do... something with the darkness. Whatever it is, it doesn't look pleasant.
    • In the Pirates of the Caribbean trailer, Luxord states that he's looking for a box. Now, for those familiar with Dead Man's Chest and At World's End, we all know what box he's talking about...
      And for those of use who AREN'T familiar with Dead Man's Chest and At World's End, what box is he talking about? And why is it scary? Zero-Context Example
  • The end of the E3 2018 trailer. After leaving his Keyblade on the beach in the Realm of Darkness, Mickey and Riku are attacked and incapacitated by a mysterious figure wreathed in shadows. The figure picks up a Keyblade, and the shadows fade to reveal Aqua, sporting Xehanort's silver hair and gold eyes. The line she delivers immediately afterwards makes it clear she is no longer the same idealistic keyblade master we grew to love, but has now fallen into darkness and despair.
    Aqua: Mickey... you're too late.
    I'm not familiar enough with the series to understand why this is scary, which in a sense makes it a Zero-Context Example.
  • While Larxene's return is indeed a harbinger of fear, let's consider something else about her design. Back in Chain of Memories, one thing that was noticably different was her eyes in her concept art and her actual model. In the concept art, they're blue, and on the model they're green. We know that Xehanort possession turns your eyes yellow like his. What is the color between blue and yellow? That's right, green. This brings into question how long Larxene was a vessel for Xehanort and how much of her sadism was from her or from Xehanort!
    • Furthermore, we know that Xemnas somehow knew Marluxia was going to betray him and sent the problematic members off to Castle Oblivion. We don't know how he learned this, and all we know is that it was only Larxene and Marluxia collaborating. If Larxene has been a vessel for awhile, this means that Xemnas probably learned it from the get go via her! Whether or not she's aware of it is the question.
      • Finally, the above nightmare fuel brings in some more for Marluxia. As of 358/2 Days, he rebels because he thinks that Xemnas doesn't have their best interests at heart, and he's absolutely correct. But in this game, he's made into a vessel. Did Xehanort preemptively jump him just to get another vessel for himself, making it so he couldn't resist and had to do as he willed him to?
        All three of these sound like speculation.
  • While the prospect of fighting the climatic battle against Davy Jones in The Caribbean is exciting to think about, it's easy to forget just what it means to be fighting him. He'll be there with his entire, human, sea life hybrid, body-horror-ridden self and crew, the complete sociopath that is Cutler Beckett (assuming he isn't addapted out) and the rest of the blood thirsty pirates, Sora, Donald and Goofy are in for a rough, and dangerous ride.
    • We also see the return of the Ruler of the Sky Heartless boss from 358/2 Days, and it's looking much more frightening and evil, not to mention even larger than before.
      First point is pure speculation. The wording makes it sound like we don't actually know for sure that all of these things will actually be in the game. Second point is a ZCE, what features does it have that make it look more frightening?

In short, pretty much everything on the page is problematic. The only thing that sounds like it might be keepable is Mysterious Onyx, and even that entry has problems. Perhaps axing the whole thing wouldn't be out of the question once Cut List starts working again.

Piterpicher We have 97% of 12097 Video Game articles. from TV Tropes XV Relationship Status: All is for my lord
We have 97% of 12097 Video Game articles.
Jul 11th 2018 at 8:23:31 AM

It works again, at least partially (moderators can now accept or reject cuts, but cut reasons still won't appear). Feel free to decide whether it's okay to cut them right now or maybe wait a little longer.

Help us split the Pokemon anime page!
Jul 11th 2018 at 8:45:57 AM

I do think it would be nice to have a reason show up after cutting a big subpage for a hotly anticipated work that probably gets a lot of traffic.

For now, I removed the most blatant misuse (Fridge Horror, speculation, In-Universe reaction) and fixed the indentation.

SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Jul 11th 2018 at 9:10:26 AM

Since cut reasons do not display on our screen either, it's quite likely that we won't accept any request that isn't immediately obvious. Which would most likely include any request from this thread. So until the reasons are fixed you should probably hold back on cutlisting.

Jul 11th 2018 at 10:34:18 AM

[up][up] Thanks for going to the trouble. Hopefully everything is working soon.

Playing_with_boy Working on a thing. from pg. 666 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Working on a thing.
Jul 11th 2018 at 1:51:13 PM

In the Nightmare Fuel page for ASOUE, I found 2 examples in Season 2 that I want to discuss here.

The first one goes,

This has a spoiler tag, which are not allowed on Nightmare Fuel (or any other Moments pages) and I think that this falls under Fridge Horror.

The second one goes,

  • "The Carnivorous Carnival" gets some serious Fridge Horror once Olaf reveals he saw through the Baudelaires' disguises right away. His making them burn down the tent full of VFD's records, and even commenting that he felt similarly uneasy before setting his first fire, makes him seem to be forcibly pushing them past the same Moral Event Horizon he'd long since crossed, aided by how the last two stories have the kids feeling very uneasy about being pushed into acting more like Olaf.

Same as above.

Anyway, I wanted to let you guys know about these.

Edited by Playing_with_boy on Jul 11th 2018 at 1:50:55 AM

   Totally not suitable for the tweens and kiddos.   
Jul 11th 2018 at 3:25:52 PM

[up] You're right about both of these.

The whole Nightmare Fuel page for that show has lots of problematic entries, such as lots of spoiler tags and bad indentation. I'm not familiar with the show, but here's my opinion:

    Example list 

Season 1

  • The entire story is set on Adult Fear. A trio of children lose their parents in a tragic fire, they are taken in by an abusive guardian after their fortune, who treats them as slaves and physically harms them. When they finally manage to flee, he goes after them, killing every chance they find to have a family or a normal life they find in the path, actively harming everyone that they bond with.
    Examples Are Not General. It's redundant to say that the whole story is Adult Fear when there are more specific examples below.
  • The leeches. Small creatures with a Lamprey Mouth taking up almost half their body lengths, and their ability to smell food on you when you're hundreds of feet away and above water. And they swarm.
    Yes, that's what leeches are. Fun fact: they actually exist in real life. Instead of giving us a biology lecture, how about explaining what they ACTUALLY do in the show?
  • Uncle Monty's corpse in episode 4. The makeup effects in that scene were spectacularly creepy.
    What kind of makeup effects were used in that scene? Was he burned alive? Stabbed? The description needs to go into more detail.
  • While providing a lot of comic relief with his lack of book smarts and paper thin disguises, Count Olaf is also a very legitimate danger to the Baudelaires. Special mentions go to picking up baby Sunny (who is clearly scared and frightened) and almost dropping her to accidentally cut off Sunny's toe, and squeezing Violet's shoulder while talking about how he can touch anything he wants. Plus, Neil Patrick Harris' performance is creepy as all hell when it's not hilariously hammy.
    Another general example. Instead of making an example saying that he's a scary character (that starts off by saying he's the Comic Relief and stupid, which doesn't help conveying his scariness), why not give each of his scary actions their own entry?
    • His threat to Violet at the end of the second episode, hissing in her ear in the complete darkness that he'll stop at nothing to get his hands on the fortune, and fully intends on killing her and her siblings once he has it. It's incredibly unnerving.
      I guess this might be keepable, though at the same time it's just words. Either way, this is poorly indented.

Season 2

  • Esme Squalor ups the ante even further. If you ran into Olaf, you could probably get away by being clever enough to get past his overcomplicated schemes, but Esme would have no qualms about just beating you to a pulp or flat-out killing you. Especially nasty is her stalking them through the records room at Heimlich Hospital, with literal stiletto heels that Violet just barely avoids.
    This has the same problems as Olaf's entry above.
  • The entirety of the scene leading up to Bab's kidnapping in Hostile Hospital Part One. Abandoned Hospital vibes, horror movie tropes, and creepy singing are all abound.
    "We visit people who are ill and try to make them cry. Even when the doctor says 'I'm afraid you have to die.'"
    What happens in the scene? This is a Zero-Context Example.
    • The scene where Esme is chasing the Baudelaires through the Library of Records. The children are all alone in a dark room with a woman who, unlike Olaf, doesn't care about keeping them alive. The whole scene also shows just how unhinged Esme is as a person.
      This seems keepable.
    • The part where Olaf slowly lumbers through the hallway while knocking out every light with a crowbar (the same crowbar that he used to murder Jacques Snicket). Paired with the creepy music, the scene feels like it was ripped straight out of a slasher flick.
    Hook-Handed Man: You scared us!
    Count Olaf: I was practicing.
    Why is he lumbering through the hallways and knocking out the lights? Is he trying to kill the kids again? If so this needs to be mentioned. The quote seems like it's just an In-Universe reaction, which is not Nightmare Fuel since it's an Audience Reaction.
  • In Hostile Hospital Part Two, when Olaf has Violet captured and tied up. The way he talks to her while holding a variety of nasty looking medical tools is absolutely bone-chilling. This is a man who's been fed up so much with his plans failing that he's out for blood, and it shows in that one scene alone.
    Count Olaf: Have you ever hunted, Violet?
    Violet: Of course not.
    Count Olaf: Well if you had, you'd be familiar with a particular experience. There's a particular moment at the end of a long hunt when you have the animal cornered and the animal looks into your eyes, deep into them, to see if there's any mercy in there. And when it sees that there is not, it gives up. It gives its life to you. I have you cornered, Violet, and I have no mercy. (looms inches from her face as she tries to squirm away) Soon enough, your siblings will fall into my trap, and when they do, I won't be satisfied with just your fortune. This time, I will obliterate you and the entire Baudelaire line in the cruelest way imaginable. (smiles maliciously) Won't that be fun?
    This seems keepable too.
    • From the same episode, Olaf learns that one of the Baudelaire parents may be alive and suddenly every trace of his comedic side vanishes into a subdued Villainous Breakdown as he slowly and deliberately sets the hospital on fire with a look of pure rage.
      Poorly indented but also seems OK.
    • When trying to force Klaus into cutting off Violet's head, Count Olaf acquiesces that the procedure might be fatal, but insists that some "sacrifices" are necessary in the name of the advancement of science. He then proceedes to stroke her hair and then her neck, with Klaus looking an appropriate combination of enraged and unnerved.
      Same as above.
  • Also, Count Olaf's plan has reached new heights of awfulness in season 2:
    • In "The Vile Village" he accuses the orphans of murder, and intends to burn them in a stake for a crime they didn't commit.
    • In "The Hostile Hospital", his plan is to force a disguised Klaus to perform a fake surgery on his sister in front of an audience. The surgery is nothing less than cutting off her head.
    • In "The Carnivorous Carnival", he intends to kill one of the freaks live in front of an audience, by feeding them to starving lions, just to draw in a crowd.
    Another general example. Two of these plans are described in greater detail elsewhere on the page, making this redundant. The same could be done for the other one.
  • For anyone who is Afraid of Doctors and Medical Horror in general, everything about "The Hostile Hospital" can qualify as Nightmare Fuel, including the Abandoned Hospital, being Strapped to an Operating Table, and the potential of a Meatgrinder Surgery.
    And yet another general hospital. There are specific examples given above, making this pointless.
  • Olivia's death in the lion pit is as disturbing as it is heartbreaking. Everyone in the room, from the gore-hungry crowd to the theater troupe to even Olaf himself, looks either disgusted, shocked, horrified, or a combination of the three (the only person who doesn't react negatively is Esme; instead, she cracks a satisfied smile). We don't actually see the mauling onscreen, but that manages to make her grisly fate even more unsettling.
    This seems keepable.

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