Blapper of Water
Got curious so went looking. I could've sworn this was a normal trope.
It was added in 2011 to YMMV with the edit reason "Audience Reaction," which makes me think it should be moved over to that index instead of YMMV.Home Page. Except it's apparently the Inverted Trope of Beauty Equals Goodness, which is just a trope. This makes me think that either the relationship is wrong or Evil Is Sexy isn't an Audience Reaction and is instead just a normal trope. The description of Evil Is Sexy seems to support this.
Not sure if TRS is needed for this or if we should just take it off the index (if enough people agree, that is) and have a short-term clean-up thread for it...
edited 5th Sep '17 8:59:07 PM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No, the other one.
Going to guess it was moved there because of how "sexy" is subjective, and that most examples were about how tropers saw it, rather than how it was presented in the story. It can certainly be an objective trope, but then it really needs to focus on the presentation rather than opinions.
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Not sure how that is an Inverted Trope at all.
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Villain Protagonist
yea idk it seems pretty objective to me, villian (usually female) is portrayed as sexual, and dresses in provocative clothing, such as Femme Fatal. the YMMV version is Draco in Leather Pants
Raven Wilder
I think a lot of it has to do with Evil Is Cool, and there being a very thin line between "cool" and "sexy".
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
I think most concrete examples would go under Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains or, in a setting where everyone is sexy, it would be People Sit In Chairs.
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There's already be 2 trs threads where the consensus seemed to be that there's an issue with the page.
I'll wanna just cut the thing or make it a redirect.
Villain Protagonist
Between Draco in Leather Pants for YMMV versions and Sensible Heroes Skimpy Villians, I agree we don't really need Evil Is Sexy. If someone makes a TRS I'll vote to get rid of it
...
This thread is two years old, but the same issue came up in ATT.
Is Evil Is Sexy about villains that the fans think are sexy, or for intentionally sexy villains? Why is it YMMV: because not everyone thinks the villain is attractive or because "sexy" is subjective?
I think the rationale is that the trope is not evil characters can be sexy, but that the act of being evil becomes a sexy trait. If it was purely objective there would be little difference between it and Femme Fatale or The Vamp. But many examples are just that the audience can't help but see an evil character as having attractive traits. It's related to Evil Is Cool.
What I get from Evil Is Sexy is that evil people tend to have their sexiness more pronounced than the good guys. That, or the sexiness of the bad guy/girl's body "corrupts" the viewers?
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Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
If Evil Is Sexy is YMMV, then so should any trope concerning sexiness such as Ms. Fanservice or Silver Fox. If these were Audience Reactions, it would cause the same problems that Fetish Fuel had, being a source of creepy gushing over characters the editor finds sexy.
While we're at it, Creepy Cute is YMMV because "both scariness and cuteness are subjective". By that logic, every trope concerning cuteness or scariness should also be YMMV. Yet tropes such as Adorkable and Creepy Child are objective.
A lot of tropes need to either be moved to YMMV, or the other way around. Personally, I'd vastly prefer the latter. Should there be some kind of discussion thread about this wider issue?
Creepy Cute is YMMV because of the contrasting juxtaposition between "creepy" and "cute". What one finds creepy, another finds cute.
The others are straightforward.
I honestly don't know why Evil Is Sexy is YMMV, though.
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I believe it is YMMV because the "sexy" part is YMMV. For it to be non-YMMV, a character In-Universe would need to state that the villain is sexy or idk, fall for them, and there is All Girls Want Bad Boys for that already.
Current version of Evil Is Sexy is a ripe field for gushing, and I'd prefer for it to stay off the main pages.
^^ Btw, Adorkable is misused a lot for characters the audience finds "adorable", forgetting the "dork" part. And there is a YMMV trope for that, Moe. I honestly think the former needs a clean-up.
Edited by Asherinka on Sep 8th 2019 at 1:21:56 PM
We can go deep down this rabbit hole, but there are places where the line between main page objective tropes and ymmv can be thin. A lot of tropes can be clearly aimed at the audience like an Aside Glance and never acknowledged in the narrative itself, but that doesn't mean it's subjective. That's why Fanservice or Ship Tease are main page tropes. But tropes that lean on how strongly the audience responds is where it becomes ymmv. You can have a villain who is attractive but if the audience doesn't feel inclined to single them out for this trait Evil Is Sexy simply doesn't apply.
Every one Evil Is Sexy's listed subtropes except for Draco in Leather Pants is not YMMV. To some extent "sexy" is relative, but things like villains being sexually aggressive or open about sexuality, dressing skimpily, and being given sexualized descriptions/camera angles is not subjective. I think Evil Is Sexy should maybe not be YMMV.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I've always thought Adorkable should be YMMV. 90% of examples are people just gushing about characters. It seems very similar to The Woobie where it can be intentional by the author but is very subjective.
Some page (forgot which one) says that being a dork is the adorable standard of either the millennium or the New 10s.
RJ Savoy
I agree that it should not be YMMV, and many examples are redundant with Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains or Evil Costume Switch, which are better defined tropes as they set up a contrast. I think it would be best to make of Evil Is Sexy an index, as indeed it more or less is right now, with all examples moved to sub-tropes. The phenomenon is real, and objective, but too broad to have examples at this level.
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Sensible Heroes, Skimpy Villains is a visual trope for how much more skin is shown in evil outfits. Evil Is Sexy is for the sex appeal/seductiveness of evil characters regardless of their dress code. I can see how this characteristic could be interpreted differently by different viewers.
just wondering